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Thread: The People's Build: S54 e36 on a Budget

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobuffs View Post
    What tranny are You using? The E46 M3 6 speed has a larger input shaft to the tranny. The 5 speeds all use the same size as the E36 5 speeds. The M52 clutch should handle the S54 power but why risk it?
    I'm using the e36 5 Speed. The m52 is in awesome shape, that's why I was asking. I'm going with the f1 stage one clutch and flywheel more than likely, but its hard to toss a perfectly good clutch.

    I'm also doing eBay headers. Hopefully I get some decent gains!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynch325IS View Post
    it's an m52 clutch/flywheel, I need to know if that works or not.

    Also, I'm making my head hurt on a header selection. I can pick up euro m3 headers for 550 or go w/ the hassle of ebay headers for around 200 bucks. I dont mind wrestling with fitment, I just want to have good numbers from the product.

    ebay? euro? I'm honestly not sure. thoughts?

    - - - Updated - - -

    here's my headache: Obviously the euro guys are getting rid of these for better headers (supersprint) so why wouldn't i get supersprint reps and deal with fitment?
    An s52 clutch will not bolt up to your M52 flywheel if thats what your asking. They are both the same pieces from bmw (240mm of clamping force) except they moved the dowel pins around to prevent swapping. It's sort of like your waterpump on the S54 and a CSL M3. Same pieces, besdes the dowel pin placement. I think its there excuse to jack up the price/add hidden taxes to the M cars.
    Last edited by JCooper; 05-04-2013 at 04:33 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCooper View Post

    An s52 clutch will not bolt up to your M52 flywheel if thats what your asking. They are both the same pieces from bmw (240mm of clamping force) except they moved the dowel pins around to prevent swapping. It's sort of like your waterpump on the S54 and a CSL M3. Same pieces, besdes the dowel pin placement. I think its there excuse to jack up the price/add hidden taxes to the M cars.
    Go figure #MTax. I was actually asking if my m52 clutch/flywheel would work on the s54 currently powering my car.

  4. #54
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    M52 clutch/fly will work on s54 just not sure how long it will hold. And 240mm is no the clamping force. It's the diameter. Both m52 and s52 clutches are 240mm. S52 has more clamping force however.
    460whp/515wtq wifes MMW tuned 335i

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328iJunkie View Post
    M52 clutch/fly will work on s54 just not sure how long it will hold. And 240mm is no the clamping force. It's the diameter. Both m52 and s52 clutches are 240mm. S52 has more clamping force however.
    Perfect. I may have to go with the m52 setup due to this gem that passed over my radar this weekend:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ght=csl+airbox

    PM'd the gentleman about what I could offer for the setup, but my offer will still completely derail this thread as a "Budget Build" haha.

    Since the m52 clutch/fly will work, couldn't I just bolt up my 5speed to the current s54 clutch on the motor? It has 62k on the clock and seems to be in decent shape.. I wonder if the m52 setup will work better with +/- 8k on the clutch opposed to the m3 setup with 60+.

    Something to ponder.

    Emailed VAC on which bearings/ rod bolts I need since there are different sizes.

    we measured out the Bearing ID to 48.75mm/1.919 and the crank OD to 48.71/1.918

    here's the VIN if you guys have any ideas. I believe the motor is a 2002 production unit.

    wbsbl93492jr15423

    here's the printout BMW Canada sent me as well on the bearing info

    View Vehicle

    Chassis Number: JR15423
    Description: M3 E46 COUPE MECH LL S54 USA
    Type: BL93
    Production Date: 01/15/2002
    Warranty Start Date: 03/07/2002
    Paint: 354 M - titanium silver metallic
    Upholstery: N5SW - Spirit nappa leather black
    BEST Vehicle (BSI or local contract):
    sales dealer:
    sales country: CA

    Technical Campaigns

    Status
    Defect Code
    SI
    Defect Description
    Done
    reserved by
    since
    0011760100 E46 S54 Big-end bearing Yes
    0011950100 E46 S54 Replacing big-end bearing shells (2. KDB) Yes
    0012230200 E36/7 E46 E39 E52 S54 S62 US Programming DME control unit (OBD communication) No
    0012740200 E46 S54 US Programming DME control module or DME and SMG control module

  6. #56
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    Unless they changed rods during recall (unlikely), you need 11mm "early" bolts with Jan '02 production. Change-over to redesigned rods/bolts came in early '03
    '21 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (blk/blk), '17 M3 (Tanzanite / Golden Brown)
    '95 E36 M3 Race Car (Cosmos Black S54 swapped CM/GTS-4)

  7. #57
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    Thta's what I thought, but I wanted to double check. Any idea on the bearing size?

  8. #58
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    Assuming the crankshaft is OE and never turned due to damage, then standard size...of course, confirm with VAC when ordering as they are not returnable as I recall when I ordered mine
    '21 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (blk/blk), '17 M3 (Tanzanite / Golden Brown)
    '95 E36 M3 Race Car (Cosmos Black S54 swapped CM/GTS-4)

  9. #59
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    They emailed me and confirmed 11mm and standard sizing. ordering both those pieces, ebay headers, bimmerworld install header kit, s54 fuel pump stuff, gaskets, akg mounts, vanos replacement bolts, diff support and a new oil pump nut.

    It's all starting to come together.

  10. #60
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    1998 e36
    seller understanding my budget and becoming excited with my project, he gave me the entire pullout for under 2900 bucks. I am so thankful!
    I bought 2006 engine for 5K, so I don't have to do anything to it, just install and enjoy. IF you have to dig into engine to change the bearings and water pump then it will cost to get it in good condition same as if you bought newer engine for more money.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakentt View Post
    I bought 2006 engine for 5K, so I don't have to do anything to it, just install and enjoy. IF you have to dig into engine to change the bearings and water pump then it will cost to get it in good condition same as if you bought newer engine for more money.
    The motor has 62k on the clock and was a complete pullout with absolutely nothing wrong with it. I pulled the bearings out yesterday and look fantastic. I'm changing out bearings and rod bolts for race application pieces that will give me peace of mind on the track. The water pump works perfectly. I have access to a machine shop and doing the work with 0 labor cost.

    The race bearings and connectors were 564.90 shipped... add that to the cost of the motor and I'm at 3364.90.. well under your 5k and mine will be prepped for track use.

    I would advise you to do the same thing if you plan to use your s54 for track purposes to keep your mind clear of worries when you're pressing 7800 rpms on a racetrack for 15-30 minutes at a time at 5 runs a day

    Cheers!

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakentt View Post
    I bought 2006 engine for 5K, so I don't have to do anything to it, just install and enjoy. IF you have to dig into engine to change the bearings and water pump then it will cost to get it in good condition same as if you bought newer engine for more money.
    Maybe...rod bearings and vanos bolts are potential weak points on ALL S54s. Lower mileage helps reduce risk but not a guarantee. I've seen heavy wear on low mileage bearings and little wear on some with much higher mileage. Checking/replacing is just an insurance policy that's a lot easier to do when motor is on a stand than in the car.

    - - - Updated - - -

    OP, while motor is out, you should replace CPV o-ring (no need to replace entire CPV). If it's not leaking now, it will and it's a BIG pain to fix with motor/headers in car. New o-ring available here
    http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=369406&highlight=cpv
    '21 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (blk/blk), '17 M3 (Tanzanite / Golden Brown)
    '95 E36 M3 Race Car (Cosmos Black S54 swapped CM/GTS-4)

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by roundelm5 View Post
    Maybe...rod bearings and vanos bolts are potential weak points on ALL S54s. Lower mileage helps reduce risk but not a guarantee. I've seen heavy wear on low mileage bearings and little wear on some with much higher mileage. Checking/replacing is just an insurance policy that's a lot easier to do when motor is on a stand than in the car.

    - - - Updated - - -

    OP, while motor is out, you should replace CPV o-ring (no need to replace entire CPV). If it's not leaking now, it will and it's a BIG pain to fix with motor/headers in car. New o-ring available here
    http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...&highlight=cpv
    10-4! I'll pick it up!

    - - - Updated - - -

    CSL Airbox could not go for my asking price, so we move forward as planned

  14. #64
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    S54 clutch will not work with a ZF 5 speed. The tranny input shaft is different sized between the ZF and the E46 M3 6 speed Getrag.
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobuffs View Post
    S54 clutch will not work with a ZF 5 speed. The tranny input shaft is different sized between the ZF and the E46 M3 6 speed Getrag.
    Thanks!

  16. #66
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    But a local clutch rebuilder might be able to swap the clutch disc hub from the M52 clutch onto the S54 one. I've never seen BMW clutches up close, but this was done in the Honda world pretty easily. Most shops would charge about $50 for the change.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobuffs View Post
    S54 clutch will not work with a ZF 5 speed. The tranny input shaft is different sized between the ZF and the E46 M3 6 speed Getrag.

    E46 M3 flywheel and E46 M3 pressure plate can be kept and friction part number 21212226958 substituted for E46 M3 large spline friction disc.


    To adapt a S54 engine with ZF 5 speed the BMW factory utilized OEM part number: 21212226958

    This part is used for e36M with s52 engine and for z3M; the USA only s52 pressure plate/clutch kit is shared with the E36 Euro S50b32 (cooper should know this one.) the E46 M3 6 speed manual has the Big imput shaft and uses a 240mm twin mass set with big splines.

    Late model Z3 M roadster and coupe had a Zf 5 speed and a S54 engine;
    for OEM BMW adaptation
    One can just order this friction disc.

    A new M52 clutch should hold the S54 power, the rpm's may kill it quickly though. M52 original clutch set has been proven with ESS
    supercharged 3000cc power in many chassis (e34/e36/e46/e39)
    M52/S52 240mm dual mass flywheels have identical dowel rods and bolt patterns; I have verified this many times myself.
    Last edited by wanganstyle; 05-07-2013 at 11:22 AM.
    Wanganstyle Powertrain
    http://www.wanganstyle.com/

    S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
    E46 M3 flywheel and E46 M3 pressure plate can be kept and friction part number 21212226958 substituted for E46 M3 large spline friction disc.


    To adapt a S54 engine with ZF 5 speed the BMW factory utilized OEM part number: 21212226958

    This part is used for e36M with s52 engine and for z3M; the USA only s52 pressure plate/clutch kit is shared with the E36 Euro S50b32 (cooper should know this one.) the E46 M3 6 speed manual has the Big imput shaft and uses a 240mm twin mass set with big splines.

    Late model Z3 M roadster and coupe had a Zf 5 speed and a S54 engine;
    for OEM BMW adaptation
    One can just order this friction disc.

    A new M52 clutch should hold the S54 power, the rpm's may kill it quickly though. M52 original clutch set has been proven with ESS
    supercharged 3000cc power in many chassis (e34/e36/e46/e39)
    M52/S52 240mm dual mass flywheels have identical dowel rods and bolt patterns; I have verified this many times myself.
    Epic post. Thank you sir!

    Do I need OEM part number: 21212226958 in order for this to work on the m52 clutch / fly? Do I need this part in order for the f1 stage i clutch and chromoly flywheel to work?

    cheers to you!

    Patrick

  19. #69
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    You need that part number in order to run a clutch that is specific to mating an s54 with a zf-speed. Stick with the dual mass flywheel. It is not worth the headache with trying to adapt ebay parts for the minimal gains from a light weight flywheel.

  20. #70
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    All of this is great news! Wagan helped me out with a few emails and informed me that I should stick with my m52 clutch and flywheel.

    Clutch info, check.

    I can also reuse my m52 header hardware+new oem gaskets.. check



    What I just put in the mail as of 10 minutes ago:

    Fuel pump, housing, regulator and MAF+ airbox top to modify the cylinder holding the MAF: 300 used from Steve on the forum
    CPV O-Ring (2): 9.00 from m3forum member
    VAC Race Bearings and Rod Connector bolts (standard bearing sizing and 11mm bolts) 584.90
    Ebay Headers: 160.00
    AKG Motor/Tranmission mounts: 194.00

    Skipping the new ebay clutch and going with my almost brand new m52 clutch with stock dual mass flywheel.

    PROGRESS!

  21. #71
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    Or a S52b32 clutch if the M52 clutch wont hold the S54 rpm's - it will bolt up with original dual mass M52 flywheel (30lbs) if desired or s52 dual mass (22lbs)

    S52b32 clutch is OEM s50b32 (euro 321hp) and has been proven DD/wangan friendly with my own S54b32+8400rpm's
    Wanganstyle Powertrain
    http://www.wanganstyle.com/

    S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
    Or a S52b32 clutch if the M52 clutch wont hold the S54 rpm's - it will bolt up with original dual mass M52 flywheel (30lbs) if desired or s52 dual mass (22lbs)

    S52b32 clutch is OEM s50b32 (euro 321hp) and has been proven DD/wangan friendly with my own S54b32+8400rpm's
    Wow! What about the 2002 z3 s54 m coupe clutch... Would that bolt up to the m52 flywheel?

  23. #73
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    Realoem.com for an S54 M Coupe or Roadster will give you all the parts necessary to retain the 5-speed ZF.
    Past Builds:
    S54 E36 Compact Build|Thread|IG|@_goldfinger|


    Current Fleet:
    Z4 M Coupe - Black Sapphire Metallic over Black

  24. #74
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    M52 pp dowels line up with m50 fw but not s50/52.
    460whp/515wtq wifes MMW tuned 335i

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
    Or a S52b32 clutch if the M52 clutch wont hold the S54 rpm's - it will bolt up with original dual mass M52 flywheel (30lbs) if desired or s52 dual mass (22lbs)

    S52b32 clutch is OEM s50b32 (euro 321hp) and has been proven DD/wangan friendly with my own S54b32+8400rpm's
    They wont bolt up. Ive tried using a US M3 PP and clutch on a 328 flywheel and the dowel pins prevent it from fitting together.

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