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Thread: Mindy's Reincarnation

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMC View Post
    My mind is made up...E85 will be on the RK Multi-Tune
    The proper way to go Plus 1

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by GG///M3 View Post
    Monster Torque beast. Hi 5 Jon

    Sent from my Plutonian interplanetary space station


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by futureroadracer View Post
    Awesome bro, looks great! That E85 is no joke! Glad to see you're back on the road. Pretty stupid numbers for a T3 too, just insane!

    Good job RK.
    Thanks Ryan.

    Let me say how much of a pleasure it has been to work with Jordan. He listened to what I wanted and came up with a plan from there. He knows his stuff. And if he decides this is what he really wants to do, he can make a hell of a good run out of it.

    Did I mention on how awesome it is to have a stock DME running on E85 with 115# injectors at a level greater than 700/700?

    Jonathan Thayer - Thayer Motorsports, Inc.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVAE34 View Post
    This is madness. I bet it's just plain silly to drive.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by jonesmechanical View Post
    Yea Cam, there is another 100-150 hp just waiting to be freed up on the top end. Of course, if the turbo compressor can flow the additional load, thats another issue. Is this not a first to see this kind of power on a T3. Its about time people start using e85 to find the limits of their setups.
    Great point! If you have a smaller turbo and your turbo compressor can't flow the additional load anyway...then why go to a larger a/r turbine housing? Better to keep it small and have better low-mid range torques!
    Quote Originally Posted by EMC View Post
    My mind is made up...E85 will be on the RK Multi-Tune
    How can anyone not?

    The door has now been opened for e85 with stock DME tuning. You know Jordan will have an OBD1 e85 tune in like two shakes since he don't sleep.

    I don't care that I don't have a station which offers it down the street. Multi-tune the DME and just switch from pump to e85 depending when you can get to an e85 station. Or...we might all be buying 55 gallon drums of e85 for our garages.

    Think about it...how often does one typically buy race fuel? Less often than they would buy e85 is my guess since e85 is under $4 a gallon and race fuel is $8-$15 per gallon depending on octane level. e85 is easily equivalent to the $15 per gallon race fuel as far as tuning potential, yet it's less than $4 per gallon. Guys on here are getting MS109, c16, q16 and other expensive fuel quite often. If they are willing to do that even during a blue moon then it is a no-brainer to go e85 for those weekend floggings. I mean other than not wanting to upgrade your fuel system to that level...why wouldn't everyone want to get a multi-tune for 91-93 octane & e85?

    Think of e85 as race fuel...but better...yet way way cheaper and way way easier to obtain. WIN.
    Last edited by highboostingm3; 04-15-2013 at 04:47 PM.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

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    Along with my fuel system question, are you worried about using rubber fuel line with E85? Isn't E85 corrosive to rubber? I'm ignorant when it comes to this admittedly, but I've always heard you need new fuel lines or need to at least eliminate the rubber in the system to make it E85 compatible.

    Finally, did you consider using E85 as your fuel when determining the rings and gaps you used? My engine builder always specifies different rings and gaps when the car is going to be run on ethanol due to the added fuel volume (~30%) in the cylinder that can increase effective compression and thereby blowby into the crank case. Are you setup for gasoline or alcohol, or somewhere in between? What does your catch can / PCV solution for this?

    Thanks

    Mike
    IG: mikevanshellenbeck

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeE36 View Post
    Holy Crap Jonathan! Looks amazing! RK-tunes doing work combined with a really well sorted hardware package = BIG POWER!

    I can't imagine 700+wtq.... I need 1/2" studs!

    750 whp on an SPA T3!!!

    Mike
    Thanks Mike. I've had a lot of time to sort out the package on what I wanted. I am very happy.

    I know a good bit about fluid dynamics, and I've been telling people for a long time now that a T3 manifold flange is not a limiting factor. It's harder to find a turbo with a T3 flange that flows higher power requirements. Typically it's only necessary to go to a bigger flange if there are no turbos that can be found to support your goals on a specific flange.

    I also found out that George @ ICS is now a supplier for SPA Manifolds and Turbos - that's going to be a great outlet for people to get this stuff.

    Jonathan Thayer - Thayer Motorsports, Inc.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoupemindy View Post

    Thanks Ryan.

    Let me say how much of a pleasure it has been to work with Jordan. He listened to what I wanted and came up with a plan from there. He knows his stuff. And if he decides this is what he really wants to do, he can make a hell of a good run out of it.

    Did I mention on how awesome it is to have a stock DME running on E85 with 115# injectors at a level greater than 700/700?
    Wow I want I want. Must be incredible! Stock DME too!

    Jordan will soon be on Mt. Olympus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeE36 View Post
    Along with my fuel system question, are you worried about using rubber fuel line with E85? Isn't E85 corrosive to rubber? I'm ignorant when it comes to this admittedly, but I've always heard you need new fuel lines or need to at least eliminate the rubber in the system to make it E85 compatible.

    ...

    Thanks

    Mike
    Rubber = no bueno with e85.

    Change to Teflon lines.

    Plus the certain pumps are good with e85 and others not.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokijibber View Post
    Wholy sh*t
    Quote Originally Posted by Luda View Post
    holycockgobblingthundercuntedbadgersnatch.


    Ive gotta see this in person! try to keep her in one piece this week so i can get a ride!
    Hahahahahaha. Great comments from you guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 357i View Post
    The man is killing it! May be hard to believe, but I bet I'm darn near as excited as you are to see it together and banging out numbers like that! I feel like a part of it, although I clearly am not, lol
    I really appreciate having someone to bounce all my dumb ideas against. You don't realize how much that means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Wooooo t3 and that massive power!? So sick!

    Nice meeting you last year at bimmerfest btw I was with jordan trolling around.

    Car sounds insane, when that wastegate opens people should know that its over.
    Thanks. The best part is that the car sounds like an M Coupe with a catback (a quiet one) when not flogging it. It's actually quieter now than when I was supercharged due to the turbo keeping the noise down. But when the pedal is to the floor, it's a whole new game. P.S. you won't win any points if you wastegate blast your wife when she lets you pass her on a back road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike radowski View Post
    Nice video! Gotta love E85.
    Thanks Mike. And make sure to tell Luke I said thanks for all the help with the clutch, etc.

    Jonathan Thayer - Thayer Motorsports, Inc.
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  8. #58
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    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matutino View Post
    Who put your engine together, I thought don dcvee did?
    Awesome car and power!
    Don did the machine work and bottom end tolerancing on this one. I then went up and we assembled the long block together. I have lots of pictures to post when I get a few minutes.

    I know that you are getting Don to help you out - just ask him to use the same pistons as I have.

    BTW, if anyone is interested, the reason for my last engine failure was the wrong pistons. Trust me, this makes me very, very mad and very, very unhappy with the source I used to procure them for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 2002330i View Post
    Jesus Christ! That's what I call power. Nice build Jon and cool vid.

    Sent from my iPhone using BF.com
    Thank you buddy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z3speed4me View Post
    Congrats buddy glad to see Mindy's finally where she should be; good luck with her!!!
    I really missed driving Mindy around. Seriously. I've gotten attached to my second wife here over the last 6.5 years. There were times over the last few years I was hard up for money and thought about selling it, but I'm glad I didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    thats a monster now buddy! damn!

    I want a ride.
    Yep, we can arrange such. But on the street, I won't really be using anything more than 150KPA (which is still stupid).

    Also, we need to arrange some time where we can help you with your one-tire fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m44lee View Post
    big numbers! congrats!
    Thank you. It's actually a bit more than I was expecting in the torque department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny318 View Post
    You've been taking hits of raw emission off my tailpipe? I heard E85 is great for that. LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bavdrftr318 View Post
    Holy mother of torque!!! Can this car be matted in 4th without spinning !?!
    At 150KPA (22psi), I can hold (barely) 2nd. 3rd is full traction.

    Notice my tire / wheel / gear selection really helps with this. At full boost (32psi), I should be able to hold third (mathematically probable).

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Very nice! Just in time for summer too!
    Yes, there's a Z3M event in Charlotte, NC in three weeks that I'll be driving to. http://schuhsyndikat.org/ The goal was to get it completed by then. I still have cosmetic work to do, but I'm finally mechanically sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzu70 View Post
    Very nice numbers, from a T3 even!

    Thanks for including piston to wall and ring gap specs
    Thank you.

    It's really hard to find clearance specifications, so I figure why not be transparent. I don't care if someone copies my setup - good for them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesmechanical View Post
    Jonathan!!!!! Oh yeaaaaa. That's what I'm talking about. Incredible. I would have never had guessed that torque curve was possible on a t3. E85 is so nice. And it smells good to boot. Congratulations. That's one nice power curve.

    Not familiar with the turbo size. Relative to a Garrett, what's the equivalent? And was the boost pressure listed?
    Thanks again. E85 does smell amazing. Almost as good as Goodyear fuel line. Man scent.

    This will help you with the turbo:



    Pressure is listed in the dyno graph 150KPA relative for 93 and 220KPA relative for E85 (absolute, add 100KPA each). The metric system is so much more simple and one of the reasons I have my awesome controller setup that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badluckM3 View Post
    SPA T3...unreal...congrats!!
    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesmechanical View Post
    Not so sure the waste gate opens at all on e85 kill mode. So curious on the boost pressures.
    Wastegate was wide open. It still had tons of room to go upward. That said, I wanted to bring a running car home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by good & tight View Post
    So happy for you right now to see your car up and running making monster power. Is my math right, 220kpa = 17.2 psi..? I bet you only want to run E85 now.
    220KPA relative, so 32psi.

    Let's just say that I'm looking to acquire a 55 gallon drum to keep around the house. E85 is so interesting. It runs so much cooler than gasoline. The exhaust isn't hot like normal exhaust. Additionally, when it shoots fireballs, they are blue flame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by e30kid89 View Post
    Wow...spa t3 doing work! After seeing your vid I went out to the garage, leaned into the engine bay and give my spa manifold a peck. LOL I love your determination to get the car driving/running/putting down the hp you want. Enjoy!

    Ps. Need to order one of your diff rebuild kits for my ti soon....
    Remember when I posted about a month ago about someone that was going to test the limits?

    My email is in my signature, feel free to email me whenever re: the differential stuff.

    Jonathan Thayer - Thayer Motorsports, Inc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoupemindy View Post
    There were times over the last few years I was hard up for money and thought about selling it, but I'm glad I didn't.
    You're not allowed to sell Mindy.

    ~Katie

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesmechanical View Post
    My guess would be 22 psi and 32 psi. I wonder if he found the limit of the turbo. John, is the race logic still installed? I'm remembering you had it.
    I never got the opportunity to previously install it, but it's next on the list. Since it is a subsystem, I didn't want to hose up everything until I was a point where I can say the car is tuned, now let me add this secondary system to see if it messes anything up.

    As said previously, I think the turbo can flow more, but don't know the return on investment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bubela View Post
    Sick.

    Please drive safely.
    Will do buddy. I hope that I was able to help you out with your fuel system questions. I'm going to post more information here too, eventually.

    Jonathan Thayer - Thayer Motorsports, Inc.
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    Seems like more people are catching onto Jordan! Love it!!

    Very nice Jonathan and Jordan with the 115lb injector tune.
    This is my signature....

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    Very excited for you!

    So, now that I can keep my SPA T3 manifold....looks like I need a fuel package to convert my system for E85 use.....and now googling where the local E85 stations are!

    So vendors out there, I need a SPA7000, fuel package, and OBD I packaged up for us TRM users!
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    Nice job guys!
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    Get that Race Logic TC installed asap. There are multiple coupes out there with it, and they will tell you its their favorite mod. You can run around on kill mode in any conditions and it sorts it out, making it safer to drive on kill mode with it, than on the wastegate spring with out it. Dont tell me how I know that, I have a near miss thinking I was good enough to drive like super man with out it.

    I would so curious how much more pressure your turbo can flow. With the 4088, I thought it could go forever the way I felt up top on 22 psi, but in reality, it was already tapped out, and closing the wastegate did nothing but add to the mid range.

    Now, did I miss you responding to how you are switching between tunes e85 and regular. I would think you would have to had some sort of content analyzer because E85, many times isn't, its e70, or something different. And the fueling changes a lot depending on the content.

    So, how does it do dat????

    1999 M coupe, Black/Kyalami Orange, Sunroof Delete; GT4088R turbo, 610 WHP @ 22PSI Pump Gas; 2.79 Gearing; TCK D/A's; Forgelines 19x9 et38 w/265 30's; 19x11.5 et19 w/305 30's. Brembo GT Brakes; Race Logic Traction Control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoupemindy View Post


    Let's just say that I'm looking to acquire a 55 gallon drum to keep around the house. E85 is so interesting. It runs so much cooler than gasoline. The exhaust isn't hot like normal exhaust. Additionally, when it shoots fireballs, they are blue flame.
    I've been running it for a few years now, love the stuff. You will also notice your oil will stay a lot cleaner. Your mpg will be terrible but who gives a fook when your putting out out 700+rwtq.. Enjoy it dude.
    My manifolds powering 8sec and over 1000rwp cars
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    I must have looked at this thread 3 times today. Once again glad you got the car sorted out and even better that you're seeing those kind of numbers !

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWManiac View Post
    Very excited for you!

    So, now that I can keep my SPA T3 manifold....looks like I need a fuel package to convert my system for E85 use.....and now googling where the local E85 stations are!

    So vendors out there, I need a SPA7000, fuel package, and OBD I packaged up for us TRM users!
    Funny how things come full circle eh? Spa t3, no must go SteedSpeed, no must go tubular, no must go twin scroll, no must go back to Spa t3.

    OBD1 e85 RK Tuning Tune will be coming soon. Might not be the 115 lbers. Might be 130 lbers.

    Get all Teflon fuel lines at the right size and dual in tank 485 e85 compatable Walbros.
    Last edited by highboostingm3; 04-16-2013 at 10:40 AM.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

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    Quote Originally Posted by highboostingm3 View Post
    Funny how things come full circle eh? Spa t3, no must go SteedSpeed, no must go tubular, no must go twin scroll, no must go back to Spa t3.

    OBD1 e85 RK Tuning Tune will be coming soon. Might not be the 185 lbers. Might be 130 lbers.

    Get all Teflon fuel lines at the right size and dual in tank 485 e85 compatable Walbros.
    One thing playing with motors has taught me is there is no MUST......There is only good, better, and best. For instance Downpipes. Can you make 700 whp on 3" dp. Sure. Will you make more on 3.5", yes. Will you make more on 4". Yes again. Good, better, and best.

    My thing is while I'm there in the motor why would I not install BEST if I can afford it and it fits?

    Mindy. EPIC power. Sick torque. For sure a record on this platform with a T3. Amazing fuel. Amazing!

    And to answer greg's question on comparing the turbo to a Garrett. In the photo he posted it shows a 65 inducer and 96.3 exducer. So high trim favoring high boost pressure, and this turbo is Bigger on the compressor side than a GT40/94R. Healthy size turbo. Very healthy.

    J. R.
    Last edited by flexer; 04-16-2013 at 09:45 AM.
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    Jonathan, is this the Good Year hose you're using? the "Fuel Injection Hose SAE 30R9"?

    http://www.goodyearep.com/productsdetail.aspx?id=5144

    Also, how did you mount dual pumps? 2 in a stock hanger?

    Mike
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesmechanical View Post
    Are you doing flex fuel, or switchable maps?
    I'm factory DME tuned. None of that stand alone BS. Just looking to have different maps at this point - right now I'm just swapping DMEs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clintjg View Post
    Fantastic numbers man. Congrats!
    Thanks Clint - appreciate it. We should go out for a ride sometime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    word through the grapevine is the thing still had boost left in it, wastegate was deff open.
    Open, WIDE open. With the open gate, you can easily tell when it closes and opens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highboostingm3 View Post
    Congratulations!

    This is just pure awesome!

    I have to say...the style in which you did your post is absolutely incredible. I am a big fan of detail and you sir have given us detail regarding your build. You have also given us a wonderful video along with a couple of yummy dyno sheets.

    Please please please tell us what a/r turbine housing you are using. We already know it is a t3 SPA 7000M 65mm Turbo...but if your hotside is a .82 or smaller then that would be extremely eye-opening.

    GAME CHANGER!
    Thank you. I really appreciate the comments. There's no point in hiding what I'm doing - it's not like I'm going to race wars (or insert any other fast and furious reference here).

    It is a .63 hotside. At first I was really concerned it was too small. But the spool is so nice on a journal bearing turbo. Yes, it's not as active as a ball bearing turbo, however with the antique rear suspension on the Z3, it's important to have a load period anyhow.

    I do have all the dyno information for the 109 (I think) runs we did to tune the car. If someone can point me to the right direction of the software download for dynojet run files, I can put together some interesting stuff. For example, on E85 I have back to back runs at 220KPA, 190KPA, 160KPA, 130KPA, and 100KPA.

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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoupemindy View Post
    ...
    Thank you. I really appreciate the comments. There's no point in hiding what I'm doing - it's not like I'm going to race wars (or insert any other fast and furious reference here).

    It is a .63 hotside. At first I was really concerned it was too small. But the spool is so nice on a journal bearing turbo. Yes, it's not as active as a ball bearing turbo, however with the antique rear suspension on the Z3, it's important to have a load period anyhow.

    I do have all the dyno information for the 109 (I think) runs we did to tune the car. If someone can point me to the right direction of the software download for dynojet run files, I can put together some interesting stuff. For example, on E85 I have back to back runs at 220KPA, 190KPA, 160KPA, 130KPA, and 100KPA.
    You are awesome!

    Would love to see a million dyno sheet comparisons with ONLY a single power scale, no AFR, no gear ratio, etc.


    Dynojet WINPEP software download click here
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeE36 View Post
    Hey Jonathan,

    For your fuel system, what type of line did you run under the car? It is hardline or rubber all the way? Where did you buy it? I need to do mine soon. Thanks!

    Mike
    I'm going to start digging up some pictures for you, but I'll respond with text for now. Remember that the Z3 tank is a bit different than the E36 tank, so things will probably be a bit easier for you.

    I'll detail from pump head to return.

    For wiring, I truncated the factory positive voltage and used it as a trigger for dual 30A relays. I ran this back to my battery box where it hits both the relays and dumps to ground. This way, the factory prime function is kept the same.

    I took a factory fuel pump carrier and installed lugs (used bolts) through the top. Additionally, I cut off the factory feed and hot pressed two 1/2" NPT bungs in it. Those two are the fuel feed ports.

    The ground lug is going to the chassis with a 6AWG wire. It is important as this can carry up to 40 amps with dual pumps. From each of the relays in the rear, I have a 10AWG to a common lug on the carrier top. Inside the tank on the bottom of the lug, I used the supplied wiring harness with the pumps. Everything was then sealed up with E85 epoxy. I first tried o-rings, but even gasoline ate right through them in time.

    The pump carrier was modified to hold dual pumps that essentially are right next to each other. Each of them have a 5/16" submersible fuel line - must use minimum standard of 30R10 in the tank. I chose to use Gates 27093 due to this:

    Gates Submersible Fuel Line Hose is capable of handling gasoline, alcohol-extended gasoline, ethanols, biodiesel or diesel fuel in fully-immersed, mobile and stationary applications.

    Now, one thing to remember, and I found this out the hard way, is that submersible line does not like bends. I actually had one rupture because I asked too much of it. If you need to make bends in the tank, use fittings instead. Shouldn't be a problem for E36 guys.

    Then it goes through the bulkhead fittings that I hot pressed and epoxied.

    Over the tank, I ran 2x 5/16" Goodyear 65152 SAE 30R9 Fuel Injection Hose. I originally made hard aluminium lines to do this, but was unhappy once I saw how it rubbed on the body. My opinion is soft might be better. Don't even think about using anything braided around the tank as it will eat the tank through.

    The 2x 5/16" soft lines merge under the car using a y-block into a single aluminum -10 (5/8") line. I bought all the flare tools, etc. to do it. I like using flare nuts and collars - simple and I can make them easily. From there it runs up to the stock fuel filter location into a Aeromotive 12335 40 Micron ORB-10 Red Fuel Filter. Off the top of my head, I can't remember the fitting, but think it's a -10AN to -10 o-ring. It is secured up using the factory hanger and a pipe repair sleeve from home depot to make it the same OD as the factory filter. Pretty slick.

    Out of the fuel filter, I come off with a PTFE -10 hose up to the front of my fuel rail. Yes, I feed front to back. It has a 90 degree end fitting and goes into my Rally Road rail with an AN-10 to O-ring -8 connector. Due to space limitations, I have to run a VERY tight 90 degree fitting off the rear. This is the reason I feel from the front - always want to keep restrictions on the return. I run a -10 braided line covered in heat shrink tubing (it's close to the starter, and yeah, not taking any chances) to the fuel pressure regulator - an aeromotive A1000. It's important to buy the gauge to go along with it too as you'll need to tune your fuel pressure to the 3.5 bar.

    From the FPR, I run an aluminum line back to the rear of the car and that merges with another piece of goodyear hose that runs to the return in the tank.

    The fuel sensor arm needed to be modified. The drawback is that I really don't have an accurate gauge - especially true since the gauge from the factory isn't accurate either. Pretty much, as soon as the gauge starts moving off full, it's time to get fuel. I only have a 12.9 gallon tank, and since fuel is essentially fuel pump coolant, you never want to really run it very low. The half tank gauge is 5 gallons left until absolute starve.

    Some things to note - if you use epoxy in the tank, you must use E85 compatible epoxy. There is only one supplier in the US that can make it, and it is VERY, VERY, VERY expensive. Normal epoxy will not hold up to E85.

    Dual pumps use a stupid amount of power when they are at full pressure. Do not EVER undersize wiring. Not only do you risk voltage drop, but you risk hot wires and melting things.

    I can control fuel pressure down to 36 psi - nothing lower as the dual aeromotives flow a stupid amount. It doesn't bother me as I run a 51psi (3.5bar) normal pressure that only drops to 42psi under the hardest vacuum.

    I bought most of my crap off amazon as it's easy to buy from and easy to return if you don't like it.

    I do want to make some changes to it when I have the time. For example, I DO NOT like the aluminum tubing and will be switching out for stainless steel. I also want to get a nicer y-block for the rear as the one I have makes the connections at a wonky angle.

    I hope I covered it, if you need any additional detail, please let me know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MMR View Post
    Awesome car and congrats to all involved. Are you running RL and if not how's the traction? Thanks.
    Thanks. You too will have a very nice car here shortly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by m3chaser View Post
    This feels good in my pants.
    We need to get together sometime. Bummer that you can't come over on Sat.

    BTW to anyone interested, if you are local and want to come over on Saturday and shoot the shit, I'm holding my annual Z3 fix it day. All are welcome - details available here:

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1937241

    Jonathan Thayer - Thayer Motorsports, Inc.
    www.thayermotorsports.com - support@thayermotorsports.com

  24. #74
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    I have just started playing with E85 as well, it is a beautiful thing

    Sorry if it was mentioned already, but what tires are you running? I picked up some 17" wheels, looking to run some MT ET Street II 315/35R17. I ran BF Goodrich Drag Radials in the 275/35R18 flavor and wasn't too impressed last year.

    Also any idea what is going on with the sawtooth in the dyno plot? Fluctuating boost?

    Nice work!

  25. #75
    mcoupemindy's Avatar
    mcoupemindy is offline Senior Member BMW CCA Member
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    This is a private email that I had with a fellow forum member awhile back, and figure I should post it here for all to see.

    Let's talk numbers.

    The 6262 roughly will flow 700bhp where the 6466 will flow roughly 900bhp.

    On our forced induction engines, we are incredibly efficient with fuel (compared to others). You can assume a BSFC of about .50 for E10 and .70 for E85.

    We can do our calculations for 900bhp and go from there.

    On E10, to run 900bhp, you'll need to flow 450 lb/hr fuel wide open.
    On E85, to run 900bhp, you'll need to flow 630 lb/hr fuel wide open.

    Pure gasoline weight 6.073 pounds per US gallon, pure ethanol weighs 6.590 pounds per US gallon.

    So, put this into a weighted scenario to get gallons per hour needed.

    E10 = (6.073 x .90) + (6.590 x .10) = (5.4657) + (0.6590) = 6.1247 lb/gallon
    E85 = (6.073 x .15) + (6.590 x .85) = (0.9110) + (5.6015) = 6.5125 lb/gallon

    So, for

    E10 you'll need 73.472 gallons / hr (278.12 liters/hr)
    E85 you'll need 96.737 gallons / hr (366.19 liters/hr)

    To get anywhere close to this power, you'll need to be north of 30 psi - so lets assume a fuel pressure of 85 psi (51psi base + 34 psi step).

    Using this chart, you'll see that an aeromotive 340 at 85 psi only flows 210 lph at 13.5 volts. I'd assume that it probably will only see about 13 volts after line drop, so lets assume 200 lph each.

    Good news, 200x2 is greater than your required fuel of 366.19 lph. There is no reason to run a lower base pressure. I wouldn't go higher on the base pressure either or you won't have enough pump head (that's the term for a pumps ability to push if you haven't heard it before). P.S.: Don't say pump head to your wife / girlfriend - she will probably take it as some sort of insult. HAHA.

    So now, onto injector sizing ...

    We now know we have to flow 366.19 liters per minute. Or 6.103 liters per minute. Or 6103 cc/min.

    So take 6103 / 6 = 1017 cc/min per injector

    But that's assuming a 100% duty cycle - you don't want that!

    Take 1017 / .80 (for an 80% duty cycle) = 1271.25 cc/min injector at 80% duty cycle.

    But that's not it, yet. Injectors are rated at 3.0 bar, not 3.5 bar. Take the square root of 3.5/3.0 = 1.08 and divide by your 80% number of 1271.25 = 1177.08 cc/min true injector need for an 80% duty cycle.

    So, theoretically six 1150 cc injectors at 3.5 bar pressure should be able to handle 900 bhp at around an 81% duty cycle.

    1600 cc injectors would hum along at roughly a 58% duty cycle.

    It's long, it's complex, but there's the math.




    I like to make sure that people understand the theory behind real world application.

    Jonathan Thayer - Thayer Motorsports, Inc.
    www.thayermotorsports.com - support@thayermotorsports.com

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