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Thread: Complete: E46-LS1 guage solution using OBDII to Can signals

  1. #26

    328i with 5.3l

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    I've made a couple. With all the different car combinations and motor combinations each one has been a little different. There are still minor bugs that need to be worked out. It's difficult to work bugs out over long distance. If a person has the patience for that I can help them out. Send me a PM with the car and motor you have.

    Thaniel
    Hey man,
    Imma hijack yor thread and ask you a ton of questions
    I got an M52tub28 with a ZF 5 speed, I just got a rear axle in good shape off a e4 M3. now i've found this bell housing from quicktime that is SUPPOSED to mate the zf 5 speed to the ls engine. So thats my plan at least.
    I want to run both computers in tandem.

    QQ: Does anyone know of a drive shaft that magically fits the 5 speed S5d to the e46 m3 diff???? Or just in the ballpark would be awesome.

    I have removed the clutch fan and am installing one back fan and the pusher and running both off the signal (brown) from the aux fan (that way i get variable speeds).
    All i need now is the pcm and the 5.3 with the accessories/trim and intake from a ls1.
    Do here is what im thinking:

    1 arduino-->VPW clone elm A -talks to LS PCM
    \>Canshield B - talks to MS42 DME

    My engine is not drive by wire (lucky me) so I just need the ignition wires tapped for the LS

    Other than that its a matter of translating bimmerspeak into GM murkican.

    Do you have a rough idea of what is involved in in the statement above ^^?? I'm sure you might have an idea of what all the moving pieces are in what signals need passing along from one ECU to another???????


    Best regards,!
    AA
    Last edited by andrewM52tub28; 06-09-2014 at 06:07 PM.
    Using Tapatalk

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewM52tub28 View Post
    1 arduino-->VPW clone elm A -talks to LS PCM
    \>Canshield B - talks to MS42 DME
    Close but more like:
    LSx -> GM VPW bus -> ELM clone -> Arduino -> Can Bus shield -> E46 Can Bus (MS42 is not part of the mix)
    The previous posts in this thread all apply to this setup.

    Sorry Can't offer advice on the Mechanical fitment of the drive components.

  3. #28
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    A big THANKS to Thaniel for providing the controller and support to get the A/C working on my E46 LS3 swap! His module is taking the A/C request signal from the IKHA on the I-bus and sending a CAN message on the GM LAN to the GM ECU. The advantages of controlling the A/C clutch via the GM ECU are the ability to control fans via A/C pressure, torque management to smooth out engine idle when engaging the clutch, and the ability to disable A/C based on RPM or throttle position.

    Also of note, I'm using the voltage signal from the BMW A/C pressure sensor to feed the GM ECU pressure sensor input which it needs to keep the clutch engaged and regulate the fans. The signal is also still going to the IKHA for it's control.
    Shea Burns

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssburns View Post
    A big THANKS to Thaniel for providing the controller and support to get the A/C working on my E46 LS3 swap! His module is taking the A/C request signal from the IKHA on the I-bus and sending a CAN message on the GM LAN to the GM ECU. The advantages of controlling the A/C clutch via the GM ECU are the ability to control fans via A/C pressure, torque management to smooth out engine idle when engaging the clutch, and the ability to disable A/C based on RPM or throttle position.

    Also of note, I'm using the voltage signal from the BMW A/C pressure sensor to feed the GM ECU pressure sensor input which it needs to keep the clutch engaged and regulate the fans. The signal is also still going to the IKHA for it's control.
    Glad its worked out.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssburns View Post
    Also of note, I'm using the voltage signal from the BMW A/C pressure sensor to feed the GM ECU pressure sensor input which it needs to keep the clutch engaged and regulate the fans. The signal is also still going to the IKHA for it's control.
    I was going to also use the BMW pressure sensor to feed the GM ECU until I reviewed the Volt vs. pressure characteristics of the BMW and GM sensors. I used the PDF below as a reference. The GM sensor volt vs pressure numbers check out so I considered the BMW numbers to be accurate.

    http://www.omega-usa.com/client/imag...ns%20Flyer.pdf

    My concern with using the BMW sensor with the GM ECU was that the ECU would allow the pressure to build up higher than GM specified. I don't know the implications of this on the compressor and cooling capabilities of the system.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 08-01-2014 at 03:48 PM.

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    I was going to also use the BMW pressure sensor to feed the GM ECU until I reviewed the Volt vs. pressure characteristics of the BMW and GM sensors. I used the PDF below as a reference. The GM sensor volt vs pressure numbers check out so I considered the BMW numbers to be accurate.

    http://www.omega-usa.com/client/imag...ns%20Flyer.pdf

    My concern with using the BMW sensor with the GM ECU was that the ECU would allow the pressure to build up higher than GM specified. I don't the implications of this on the compressor and cooling capabilities of the system.
    Great info! Where was this last week???

    My understanding of the BMW schematics is that the pressure sensor feeds into the IKHA which then tells the BMW DME to engage or disengage the clutch as well as turn on the fan.

    I'm still using the entire BMW A/C system except the compressor. So the BMW pressure senor is still feeding accurate pressure info to the IHKA. So if the pressure is too low or too high it won't command the GM ECU to engage the clutch. The GM ECU is now also reading the voltage, although with a slightly different scale. On the low end they are really close. On the high end the BMW sensor will read low, but the IKHA should still be providing the protection. You can also change the pressure at which the fans come on in HPTUners so I've set this fairly low. The only danger as I see it is if the pressure limit of the GM compressor is substantially lower than the BMW settings.
    Shea Burns

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssburns View Post
    The only danger as I see it is if the pressure limit of the GM compressor is substantially lower than the BMW settings.
    There's a range of pressures over which Freon A/C is most efficient... I don't think there's a risk that the operating pressures of the systems would be significantly different. It's not like the power steering or automatic transmission line pressure, in which the operating pressure is fairly arbitrary (a working pressure might be chosen just because it's a convenient number in the system of units being used: 1,000 psi vs. 10 MPa, for example...)

  8. #33
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    Agreed. Pressures do vary with temps, loads, etc., but most systems will operate in the same ranges. Just pointing out that I don't know exactly where the protections kick in on either system. Being in MI I don't expect to really tax the system anyway...
    Shea Burns

  9. #34
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    Since your IHKA can control the GM ECU based on the pressure, then I think you are fine.

    In my case (E39 platform), the IHKA will only provide the A/C request signal. The GM ECU will take care of everything else. In the E39 the IHKA does not command the BMW DME to disengage the clutch. This is because, unlike the E46, the E39 DME does not control the compressor clutch.

    The plan is to have the IHKA send the A/C request signal, which Thaniel's box will receive over CAN-BUS (Thaniel correct me if I'm wrong), then output a 12V signal for the LS1 ECU.

    It looks like the Volvo sensor has essentially the same pressure vs. volt characteristics as the GM sensor and it will thread into the BMW sensor hole. I'm planning to use the Volvo sensor for now. Luckily the E39 IHKA does not require a pressure reading for it to send the A/C request. All that is needed is the A/C button to be in the on position.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 08-01-2014 at 03:48 PM.

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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    The plan is to have the IHKA send the A/C request signal, which Thaniel's box will receive over CAN-BUS (Thaniel correct me if I'm wrong), then output a 12V signal for the LS1 ECU.
    yup that's how it'd work.

  11. #36
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    Here is the latest car using the OBDII solution. http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...8#post28200408

    This implementation was actually a Hybrid. The RPM data was pulled from the LS3 can data stream passively. Temp and MIL status was extracted using OBDII commands (In this case over the can bus). Doing it that way reduces the bus traffic and allows other OBDII devices that might be plugged in more band width.

    Thaniel

  12. #37
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    Can the BMW cruise control switches operate the GM cruise control via the CAN bus for drive by wire PCM's?

    The 58X PCM's require input from the body control module to operate cruise control. Hot rods using later model GM PCM's can't have cruise control, unlike the drive by wire 24x PCM's, which read the cruise switches directly.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSideofWill View Post
    Can the BMW cruise control switches operate the GM cruise control via the CAN bus for drive by wire PCM's?

    The 58X PCM's require input from the body control module to operate cruise control. Hot rods using later model GM PCM's can't have cruise control, unlike the drive by wire 24x PCM's, which read the cruise switches directly.
    Well....The Cruise buttons aren't connected to the Can bus. They are connected to the BMW DME. With the DME removed a different device would have to decode the messages. And no one had decoded those messages. But in theory yes one could take a button press of some sort and send a message via can bus to the LS PCM. Say the button could be the R/T button on the steering wheel. (how many cruise buttons do you really need? Just "set" could get you hours of cruising fun). With that said and a reflection on how Americans handle cars that don't want to give throttle control back to the driver (toyota anyone?), I won't be pioneering any cruise interface functions :-) If someone was writing their own cruise subroutine I'd be willing to provide them with what I know about the E46. But I'm not going to pursue cruise features myself.

    Thaniel
    Last edited by Thaniel; 01-10-2015 at 07:13 AM.

  14. #39
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    Since they're on the steering wheel, they don't have discreet wires... just one wire carrying data vice a wire for each switch, right?
    I didn't realize that data went straight to the DME instead of to the IKE or other module in the BMW. Interesting.

    I think that people who swap LS V8's into BMW's are probably a cut above your average Prius driver in terms of awareness of the car and ability to react to adverse conditions

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSideofWill View Post
    Since they're on the steering wheel, they don't have discreet wires... just one wire carrying data vice a wire for each switch, right?
    There is one wire with data for the cruise buttons and one wire with data for the other buttons. The other buttons have a K-bus connection and the cruise buttons connect direct to the DME. In 4 cyl (not sold in usa) versions there is a separate cruise module (not part of the DME). And in that case the cruise buttons go to that module. Also some other cars, I forget which (some e39?) have a separate cruise module. There is information in some other threads in regards to this. I think the output from one of these cruise modules might be better to work with. Of course there could also be the option to gut/reprogram the cruise buttons to communicate on the kbus. Lots of ways this problem could be solved. Just takes some time, patience, and hardware to test on.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSideofWill View Post
    I think that people who swap LS V8's into BMW's are probably a cut above your average Prius driver in terms of awareness of the car and ability to react to adverse conditions
    I would hope so. but then again I did let my wife drive my LS1-E36 from time to time :-)

  16. #41
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    Would it be possible to make an adapter that would make the LS1 Camaro PCM communicate with the E46 M3 DSC-unit?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristov View Post
    Would it be possible to make an adapter that would make the LS1 Camaro PCM communicate with the E46 M3 DSC-unit?
    Yes. All the messages being sent by the module are also received by the dsc. Any thing in particular you want to tell the dsc?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    Yes. All the messages being sent by the module are also received by the dsc. Any thing in particular you want to tell the dsc?
    I would like to exchange the messages used to control the TSC and DSC functions. To make that work I think the DSC has to tell the engine to speed up or slow down.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristov View Post
    I would like to exchange the messages used to control the TSC and DSC functions. To make that work I think the DSC has to tell the engine to speed up or slow down.
    you might find some of the info in this thread useful
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...2#post28261682

    The trick is getting the messages figured out to know what to send when. Sending the messages is easy. The link above discusses the BMW side. The LS1 side would also have to be gathered. But on the LS1 side it wouldn't be can bus.

    Thaniel

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    you might find some of the info in this thread useful
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...2#post28261682

    The trick is getting the messages figured out to know what to send when. Sending the messages is easy. The link above discusses the BMW side. The LS1 side would also have to be gathered. But on the LS1 side it wouldn't be can bus.

    Thaniel
    No offense meant to anyone in here, but hasn't this been done using the racelogic unit? Doesn't it sniff the ABS sensors and adjust the fuel injectors/coils as needed? Fancy little dial and screen to show the adjustment points?

    Would figuring this out, be as simple as one sniffing through the racelogic unit?

  21. #46
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    Racelogic traction control unit is hard wired between the ECU and injectors as well as to the vehicle speed sensors so there isn't data to sniff from it.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 01-29-2015 at 04:47 PM.

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  22. #47
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    MAJOR UPDATE

    I manage to get my gas gauge,speedometer, oil pressure light, TACHOMETER and TEMP GAUGE working just fine without any controller, converter or any other devices. The only parts you need are the DME,PCM, oil pressure switch and E46 coolant temp.

    -supply DME with proper batt, ign and gnd first. After you can connect to the DME the BMW coolant temp that you installed in the LS1 passenger head this will make you temp gauge work.(if cluster is not working, the temp gauge will only climb up to 1/4 of the gauge).

    -Oil pressure switch can be taken from any car, as long as it gives ground when pressure is 0. You hook the switch to the DME. This will make your oil pressure light work.

    -Tachometer, you only have to connect the LS1 camshaft signal to the DME camshaft signal on pin 5. So you intercept the signal between the sensor and PCM to send it to the DME. This will make your tachometer work. And temo gauge work perfectly.

    -speedometer is under ABS system so no problem there.

    -gas gauge should work without any mods.

    Only thing that I need to resolve is the oil level light that comes up sometimes when tachometer is plugged. To solve, I will most likely immitate the signal of the BMW oil level sensor or just remove the orange LED in the cluster.

    If you have any questions, feel free to email me. jfprovost@gmail.com

    I dont come here often.

    Thanks

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfcalisse View Post
    MAJOR UPDATE
    Interesting.... But the only thing I see different from what was done an the First E46 V-8 swap (from 2010) http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...8#post19431328 is using a signal from the existing sensors instead of a separate crank sensor.

    Using separate inputs to the existing DME has always been an option. This particular thread is about an alternative to adding sensors and modifying the IKE.

    In customizing cars there is always more than one way to accomplish a task.

    Thaniel

  24. #49
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    Made some progress on a VPW to Can bus interface (VPW is what GM uses on LS1's for OBDII and Class2Serial communication).

    Once we got the VPW protocol down and working in the Arduino we found that it is a resource hog. There are many time critical things that have to happen to keep in sync with the VPW bus. We ended up putting on a piggy back "arduino Mini" just to run the VPW. This module is much like the one previously made with the ELM. But the ELM couldn't easily output OBDII messages AND monitor the class2serial data stream at the same time. where is our software can. This means we can grab all the values we can find off the class2serial data stream and then use PID's to fill in for any messages that are missing or just not known. should also be able to issue many different commands via the class2serial. Though we've not played with that yet. There is remarkably little useful information out there on the Class2Serial data stream.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #50
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    The above vpw unit is now installed in a ls1 740i (99) swap. Owner reports tach and temp work and the AC on off was being captured. So looks like the can messages of the 740i are the same.

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