Build Thread - 1977 316 (E21) M42 Swap - Restoration

[moostashbb]

Build Thread - 1977 316 (E21) M42 Swap - Restoration

Hi community!

I'm a newcomer to bimmer and a very new student to the inner-workings of cars (including the E21). I've recently inherited my father's car (1977 316; see my URL below for photos) and as planned, I am embarking on a full restoration of the car as I need the car for my daily driver. I'm fairly certain I am going with the M42 swap, as this seems like the best bet for me. I am looking to spend a good deal on the car (still working it out, but more than $5k, less than $10k), but as I am so new to cars (and car restorations), I thought a good place to start with accumulating advice is with you all. Any and all advice (thoughts to consider, etc.) are greatly appreciated. I have spent many hours going through a lot of the threads on here (especially the ones relating to a M42 swap), but can always learn more. Below I've listed some general questions I have, but am open to most everything. I won't be doing any of the work and the mechanic with which I plan to work charges $70 an hour for mechanic work and has a lot of experience with rebuilds and BMWs in general.

• What should I expect to pay for a full M42 drivetrain swap, including the parts sourced by the mechanic...?
• It seems like many people recommend a turbo with the M42. If it is my daily driver, should I add the turbo? If so, what would it cost? Also, what is the total increased power from it? It have any impact on mpg?
• If I want to completely re-work the suspension, what sorts of parts should I go ahead and begin sourcing? Any recommendations on ways to keep the cost down (by using some used parts vs. new ones, other techniques, etc.)? Any brands that you would recommend or could provide some insight on ("Brand X is top of the line"; "Brand Y is the best bang for your buck and a smooth ride"; etc.)?
• I love the look of the leather Recaro's that were in some of the early-model BMWs, but am unsure about the best way to go about acquiring some. I saw some on ebay for ~$700 for a pair of black ones (but am wanting tan), with shipping for about $150. That to be expected? Also, any recommendations on best way to match the backbench seat?
• I see that several people have relocated the battery to the trunk. Is the purpose mainly to just shift weight to the back wheels (instead of the front)? If so, is it worth paying the money (which would cost what exactly?) to have a person fabricate a stand and relocate if I'm only using this car for my daily driver?
• I'm definitely wanting to put a nice set of wheels (probably BBS) and tires on it, and am wanting to get 17-18" but am unsure of the sizing (and width). Any recommendations? Is there a certain width at which modification to the fenders is required? Any recommendations on where to purchase tires?
• The car doesn't have air conditioning, but I am considering adding it. What can I expect to pay for parts (and any recommendations on this?) and labor to install? Is it a very do-able thing or is it more trouble than its worth? I plan on having the car for years and may want AC part of the time.
• Most likely going to put some decent speakers (and deck) in it, but wondering if any audiophiles had any experience with how different speakers sound in the car (given the acoustics of the car, the size of the speakers, etc.)...? Any recommendations on type/brand?
• For all of the older parts that are removed from the car, what can I expect to sell these for? Any specific parts worth more than others? I will probably end up selling to the mechanic/parts dealer, so wondered what a decent price is...

In advance, thanks so much for the help. I'm really excited and can't wait to see the final result. Cheers!

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Also....with the M42 swap, is there a way for me to pass California emissions standards or does it really not help all that much?

Furthermore, any recommendations on replacing the front beams? Wanting nice crisp lights, but don't want them to be too blue (and look odd with the classic look of the e21)...any thoughts?

Also, any recommendations on exhaust manifold? I am a bit shaky on what exactly I should consider, what parts I can expect to buy, how much custom work would be required, etc....any help would be great!

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Additionally,

- How difficult and pricey for a sunroof to be put in?

- Did most of the North American E30 318s (with the M42) come with a catalytic converter?

[gsumzzz]

Why not ask the mechanic? My advice -sell this one and buy one with the work already done.

[Tom D]

couple of things;

where do you live and is it hot and crowded there?
if it is both and you spend 45 minutes crawling in 100 degree temps on your daily drive then I'm going to suggest that you consider a M20 instead.

17 or 18 inch wheels? really, not something in the way of 13 to 15?
if 17 is a 'have to have' then I'm going to recommend that you go with a M20 instead.

is your mechanic a plug and play kind of guy or one who likes to fabricate?
if he's the type that just replaces instead of rebuilding then I would suggest that you find another mechanic or go with a M20.

do you like a car to be smooth and quite?
go with a M20.

however, if you like a car with a high revving engine that respects having its neck wrung between shifts, don't mind having your fillings rattle while doing so, can live with 14" wheels and maybe 15 at most for better gearing, loves a lite weight front end that begs to be rotated more while already in the middle of a tight corner while traveling way too fast, and your mechanic likes doing fairly mild engineering and fabrication, then by all means get yourself a M42!!!

welcome to our side of the madness, we're here to help.

P.S. I love my M42 powered E21 and look forward to the day that an officer of the law ask me if I know why he stopped me, "for smiling!" I'll reply.

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[h=2]

Also....with the M42 swap, is there a way for me to pass California emissions standards or does it really not help all that much?

Furthermore, any recommendations on replacing the front beams? Wanting nice crisp lights, but don't want them to be too blue (and look odd with the classic look of the e21)...any thoughts?

Also, any recommendations on exhaust manifold? I am a bit shaky on what exactly I should consider, what parts I can expect to buy, how much custom work would be required, etc....any help would be great!

- - - Updated - - -

Additionally,

- How difficult and pricey for a sunroof to be put in?

- Did most of the North American E30 318s (with the M42) come with a catalytic converter?[/INDENT]
[/COLOR]

last I checked california would let you do an engine swap providing you we're going with newer smog technology and not older, but you will have to have it complete and signed off by a referee.

use halogen H4s like hella or cibie.

if you go with a M42 then use the factory exhaust, it came with a tuned header.

sunroof, forget about it.

all E30 318s came with M42s and all of them had cats. if you source a E36 M42/44 be aware that the oilpan and pump's pickup will need to be swapped to the E30's pieces.

[moostashbb]

I live in SF (which is cool and I don't sit in traffic), but I will likely be moving to Nashville or Austin in a couple years (which are definitely much warmer).

I looked into the wheels a bit more and looks like the 15" wheels are a bit more style. I definitely like the look of this http://www.bbsrszone.com/blue-bmw-32...lpina-goodies/

Also sounds like a M20 swap may be a bit more to my liking as I don't really have a need for speed and I do want comfy and quiet. But does it not come with more difficulty than swapping M42 in? It seemed like the M42 was a bit easier for a swap into the E21 (just from my looking around on this forum)...???

thanks!

[n8marx]

'84 and '85 E30 318s had M10s.

[Tom D]

'84 and '85 E30 318s had M10s.

thank you for that oversight on my part, but since we were talking about removing the M10 those models didn't even resigter in my mind. what I did mean was that all E30 318s imported to the states had M42s as oppose to the world market that mostly got the M40s (with the expection of course of the M10s) and that they all had cats.

incidently, all 82, 83, 84, and 85 E30 318s had M10s.

[m20powered]

Wait, you have a non-sunroof car? I'm guessing that makes it one of the very few that aren't perpetually rusting away from the inside out...

[Layne]

Wait, you have a non-sunroof car? I'm guessing that makes it one of the very few that aren't perpetually rusting away from the inside out...

I have never seen an e21 that leaked from the sunroof. Windshield leaks are very common though. I also have one with no sunroof (and 2 with).

[Layne]

thank you for that oversight on my part, but since we were talking about removing the M10 those models didn't even resigter in my mind.

When you're talking about US models, there's a very simple distinction. 318i = M10. 318iS = M42.

[Tom D]

When you're talking about US models, there's a very simple distinction. 318i = M10. 318iS = M42.

not at all layne, all 318i after 85 got M42s.

actually let me clarify, the 318i ran until 85 with a M10, then there were no 318i until 1990 when it came out again with the M42.

[m20powered]

I have never seen an e21 that leaked from the sunroof. Windshield leaks are very common though. I also have one with no sunroof (and 2 with).

With the sunroof it's not a question of leaks, water entering the gap around the sunroof opening flows through tubes down into the rockers. The inside of the rocker panel rusts (and eventually water enters the floor pan via rust holes from the rocker) and rust spreads to the floor. All my bimmers have had this disease, even the ones that were originally not from the rust belt. Sucks

[Layne]

not at all layne, all 318i after 85 got M42s.

actually let me clarify, the 318i ran until 85 with a M10, then there were no 318i until 1990 when it came out again with the M42.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as of the reintroduction in 1990, all USA 318's were "S" models.

With the sunroof it's not a question of leaks, water entering the gap around the sunroof opening flows through tubes down into the rockers. The inside of the rocker panel rusts (and eventually water enters the floor pan via rust holes from the rocker) and rust spreads to the floor. All my bimmers have had this disease, even the ones that were originally not from the rust belt. Sucks

Hmm never seen that. If I were to sandblast the rockers I might be surprised though.

[Tom D]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as of the reintroduction in 1990, all USA 318's were "S" models. .

in my quest of all things M42 I have found 2 or 3 times more 318i four doors then 'S' models. in fact I have found many 1990 318i, but have never found a 90 318is only 91.

[sonomaGTLN2]

To answer the OP question on turbo/gas mileage, with my M42 and 3.91 rearend I was commonly getting 32+mpg on premium (a must for the M42) at highway speeds. I haven't taken the turbo on any long-range trips yet, but I still expect to be around 30mpg. If you are just dd-ing the car and not autox or racing it, I would recommend leaving the M42 stock. In terms of price, I picked up my M42 for $500 with trans and computer in 2008 (127k miles). Since that point I've put 14,000 miles on the swap and about 2000 on the turbo and she still doesn't burn any oil. Just be wary of timing chain noises and address asap if you hear much rattle.

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To add, BBS RS are very cool indeed. If you are going for a true show-winning restoration then plan on spending $1500+ just to have a good set of wheels. Slap on another $550 for tires and your budget is getting slim just in rubber. I've spent the last 6 months looking for a set that I could restore myself and even ones in fair condition were >$1000. Reality hit me and I remembered my car is purely eurotrash with a turbo and I don't plan on winning any awards other than ugliest pig in the pen, so I opted for staggered 15" ESM RS reproductions for "substantially less than $1500". Purists will argue, but those purists usually have unlimited budgets. Ultimately its up to you and your checkbook. Good luck!

[1988]

I see no link to your photos.

[Layne]

in my quest of all things M42 I have found 2 or 3 times more 318i four doors then 'S' models. in fact I have found many 1990 318i, but have never found a 90 318is only 91.

Ahh so the 4 doors are not S. I'll stand corrected then, I didn't even know there was a 4 door M42. I guess the enthusiasts don't care about 4 doors so they never get mentioned online. And I've only ever seen a couple M42 E30's in person.

[sonomaGTLN2]

There was even a 518i with M40 at some point...that thing must have been a dog.

[dumbclub]

When you're talking about US models, there's a very simple distinction. 318i = M10. 318iS = M42.

in my quest of all things M42 I have found 2 or 3 times more 318i four doors then 'S' models. in fact I have found many 1990 318i, but have never found a 90 318is only 91.

I was ready to agree with Layne on this, but as we all know, Tom is rarely wrong (and neither is Layne), especially about anything related to the M42, so I did some research at m42club.com and also found this nice summary on Wikipedia:

• I love the look of the leather Recaro's that were in some of the early-model BMWs, but am unsure about the best way to go about acquiring some. I saw some on ebay for ~$700 for a pair of black ones (but am wanting tan), with shipping for about $150. That to be expected? Also, any recommendations on best way to match the back bench seat?

This is a minor point, but worth clarifying: The Recaro seats that were supplied in e21's were upholstered with a very nice black vinyl, not leather. Sometimes you will see them available from sources that have recovered them in leather, but they can get very pricey for nicely done examples. The only factory supplied leather pieces available for our cars were the optional sport package shift knob and steering wheel.

There's been lots of discussion here on the forum about finding and fitting the Recaros, as well as other sport seats. Do a search and also check the FAQ's. Your best bet for matching the back seat is to find a rough pair of Recaros and have everything reupholstered at the same time.

I vote no on adding a sunroof to your car. The potential problems and added expense of putting in an aftermarket unit would outweigh the gains for me and when you're ready to sell the car someday, the non-sunroof e21 will be more desirable and actually add value.

[gusm325]

[TheNeek]

good luck. My M42 swap is 10 years old now and still really fun to drive.

[moostashbb]

After some consideration, I think the M20B25 is best for me--so thanks for the info! I'm definitely wanting quiet and comfy ride. Going to go stock first and then, if I want the turbo, then step it up down the line.

Thanks for the advice on the wheels--$2,000 for the wheels and tires may a bit of a stretch right now considering the other work I want to get done.

Here is the link to pictures of how it looks currently-- http://imgur.com/a/9X9YK

Also, thinking about the M20B25.... this is a gorgeous rebuilt one (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...20-Turbo-Motor). Any likes/dislikes with this setup? The ebay manifold sounds a bit questionable, but won't really care as I am not planning to turbo at this time.

As for suspension, thinking about Ground Control coilover suspension kit (http://www.ground-control-store.com/...hp/II=878/CA=4). Any suggestions on this? Worth the $1,500?

[Tom D]

As for suspension, thinking about Ground Control coilover suspension kit (http://www.ground-control-store.com/...hp/II=878/CA=4). Any suggestions on this? Worth the $1,500?

the GC kit is really nice and the price is right. jay pairs the eibach springs with koni adjustables and after many years and many cars with bilstiens I'm really likening the Konis. But, you need to be careful with your spring selection, too soft and you're no better off then you are now and too stiff and you've loss that smooth ride you're looking for. the Konis are not an issue, small bumps are absorbed with ease and when you really need control they tighten up very quick.

the nice thing about coilovers and 2.5" springs is that if they are too stiff you simply buy softer ones or vise versa. you can't do that with standard size springs.

[DEZIAC]

Interesting, I've seen radio delete before but never clock delete.

Just wondering, do you know anybody that can help you restore the car?
Your budget seems enough to cover the cost of outsourcing the work. Although, the fun is also getting hands on with the restoration process. I've owned my car now for 4-5yrs and have yet to bring it to a shop. I used to pay a mechanic to do every mechanical job on my previous cars until I picked up my e21. The only thing I used to know how to do was change a radio and oil. lol Now I feel comfortable enough to soon attempt an engine rebuild and turbo my spare m10.

Anyhow, all I'm saying and highly suggesting is that you attempt to do some stuff on your own or with the help of people and our online community. You will learn alot which is key, especially that you plan on it being a daily driver. Also, you can save so much money in doing so. Thats extra money you can splurge on other things like nice wheels. Plus there is no greater reward then knowing what you accomplished with your own hands. I understand that some stuff might be beyond your comfort level mechanically, but even just the little jobs that get your hands dirty is satisfying.

But if time is an issue and you really want this car as your daily; then by all means spend it if you got it and get her on the road.

Anyways, great euro base for a car, so you own and have won half the battle some of us are striving for.

[Tom D]

Interesting, I've seen radio delete before but never clock delete.

I'm loving the tack pin in the hazard switch.

[DEZIAC]

^^ haha.. good eye, it took a second to find where the hazard is on the earlier cars.