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Thread: e36 brake upgrade

  1. #1
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    e36 brake upgrade

    Has anybody used/ know if its possible e46 ///M rotors on the front of a non-M e36?

  2. #2
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    On an e36 non-M, e46 m3 rotors work with e46 330i calipers, if you grind a little material off the caliper carrier (it's evident where you need to grind when you put it together). This also lets you use the e46 m3 caliper if you want to as it slides right on to the 330i caliper carrier (the m3 caliper has a 60mm bore as opposed to the 57mm of the 330i). I chose to use the 57mm bore caliper to get the bias I wanted and a little stiffer pedal.

    Chris
    Last edited by HDawg 440; 04-01-2013 at 07:17 AM.

  3. #3
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    Physically mounting might be possible, but be carefull with the braking unbalance. Too much front bias may lead to longer braking distance.
    1969 2002 racecar + 1989 e30 M3 racecar


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Lee View Post
    Physically mounting might be possible, but be carefull with the braking unbalance. Too much front bias may lead to longer braking distance.
    Right, I used the 330i front calipers (57mm piston) and 330xi rears (40mm piston). I don't remember my bias target (I did the calcs a couple years ago) but out of the mix-and-match permutations of e36 and e46 stuff, that's what I chose. Seems to work okay for me, but I do recognize a couple things about it:
    - that the rear rotors are enormous for a car that doesn't use brake-based traction control
    - the ABS HCU is meant for calipers with less hydraulic volume

    Chris

  5. #5
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    The plan was to use E46 ///M rotors on the front, coupled with Wilwood 4 piston calipers from Summit (the price just seems amazing for an aluminum 4 piston). As for adapting the caliper to my E36, a very good machinist friend that seems to think he owes me one will help out for a very reasonable cost. 330xi rear calipers would probably be next to help the balance, although I think i'm seeing a manual proportioning valve and some brake line plumbing in my future..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynburns View Post
    Has anybody used/ know if its possible e46 ///M rotors on the front of a non-M e36?
    Yes, I run wilwood 6 piston front and 4 piston rear with e46 m size rotors front and rear! Without changing the rear suspension on my non m.

    Google Brake revolution LLC and ask for Daryl

    His shop makes custom brake rotors of any size and style. And pairs them with wilwood calipers and pads.

  7. #7
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    I used e46 330 in the front and e46 328 in the rear. Both did NOT require any modifications. Just use the rotors, calipers and brakets from those models.


    Quote Originally Posted by rynburns View Post
    The plan was to use E46 ///M rotors on the front, coupled with Wilwood 4 piston calipers from Summit (the price just seems amazing for an aluminum 4 piston).
    Which models were you looking at on summit?
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  8. #8
    tmaxx445's Avatar
    tmaxx445 is offline E38 6 Speed Club Member! BMW CCA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimerok View Post
    I used e46 330 in the front and e46 328 in the rear. Both did NOT require any modifications. Just use the rotors, calipers and brakets from those models.

    Which models were you looking at on summit?
    Yep I think that is the most cost effective combination for non M e36s if you are looking for larger rotors with better heat capacity that still retains the correct bias. I had this set up on my old e36 but you really need an M3 master cylinder to compensate for the larger caliper fluid volume. It will work fine without but you will have more pedal travel if you keep the stock MC. I am not sure I am understanding how an e46 M3 rotor would work with a 330 caliper as I would think the increased rotor thickness would be a problem with new pads with full pad material present as it is already very tight with the 25mm rotors and new pads.









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    Last edited by tmaxx445; 04-16-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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  9. #9
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    The setup I was looking at was this (or a variant thereof)

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wi...1136/overview/

    A set of these up front, a set of E46 xi calipers in the rear, and E46 ///M rotors all around, coupled with an E36 ///M master cylinder and possibly an adjustable proportioning valve (the ABS pump is coming out anyways, so it wouldnt be difficult to plumb-in).

    From what I gather, I'll gain overall stopping force, increase the ability to vent heat, and be able to adjust the bias..For a car that sees 90% street, this is all more than adequate, and I think will transfer well to the track. And again, finding ways to adapt these calipers isnt an issue, so that helps cut cost..

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynburns View Post
    The setup I was looking at was this (or a variant thereof)

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wi...1136/overview/

    A set of these up front.
    I would go with smaller piston sizes if you are keeping the stock booster and master cylinder setup. Even the 1.625" pistons for the superlite is slightly greater than the stock M3 piston area, plus the larger rotors they will be clamping on will also move bias forward slightly. The 1.75" pistons are for individual master, custom pedal box type setups. There are a lot of Wilwood kits out there, just look for one that best fits your needs (good floating rotors if you're going to put the car through heavy track duty).

    JFrank
    NASA,BMW CCA,THSCC Instructor

  11. #11
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    Alot of this is kind of experimental for my own personal benefit too, so moving bias foreward, learning how to balance it, etc is OK with me. The whole car as a whole has been fairly experimental to be honest, and sure ive made a mistake or two that I needed to correct (like ordering springs that were too soft) but I like the process that it takes me through. Once I work out the $$$ to get this going, I'll post up how it goes, and i'm sure that the brackets that will be machined to adapt the calipers to the hubs will be easily replicated, so it will also benefit others that are looking to do similar projects.

  12. #12
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    Wilwood Forged Superlite. Wilwood 332x32mm discs. Front and rear.

    Definitely possible on an non-M e36/e46. That's a complete front and rear combo for under $3k. Which is probably the most economical way for a racecar. Each disc weights 12.3lbs, 5lbs for calipers, 2.5lbs for pads, 2,5lbs for the hat and drive-pins. That's 25lbs per corner for huge heatsinks and stiff calipers. On a budget. And also very practical on a racer's standpoint. Same pads and rotors are used at the front and at the back. Just bring one set of each.



    Last edited by Massive Lee; 04-19-2013 at 08:02 AM.
    1969 2002 racecar + 1989 e30 M3 racecar


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynburns View Post
    Alot of this is kind of experimental for my own personal benefit too, so moving bias foreward, learning how to balance it, etc is OK with me. The whole car as a whole has been fairly experimental to be honest, and sure ive made a mistake or two that I needed to correct (like ordering springs that were too soft) but I like the process that it takes me through. Once I work out the $$$ to get this going, I'll post up how it goes, and i'm sure that the brackets that will be machined to adapt the calipers to the hubs will be easily replicated, so it will also benefit others that are looking to do similar projects.
    Nothing wrong with a little experiment, but at least run some calculations before pulling the trigger on calipers:
    http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/bias-calculator/
    Some of the off-the-shelf brackets and other adapter items could save you a lot of time and headaches.

    JFrank
    NASA,BMW CCA,THSCC Instructor

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    Just out of pure curiosity has anyone ever put like C3 corvette brakes on a E36? Just really curious, plus I dont wanna go 6-piston.

  15. #15
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    RallyRoad sold a kit in the past to put use Corvette brakes but I am not sure what vintage Corvette.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Lee View Post
    Wilwood Forged Superlite. Wilwood 332x32mm discs. Front and rear.

    Definitely possible on an non-M e36/e46. That's a complete front and rear combo for under $3k. Which is probably the most economical way for a racecar. Each disc weights 12.3lbs, 5lbs for calipers, 2.5lbs for pads, 2,5lbs for the hat and drive-pins. That's 25lbs per corner for huge heatsinks and stiff calipers. On a budget. And also very practical on a racer's standpoint. Same pads and rotors are used at the front and at the back. Just bring one set of each.



    The want is immeasurable. Your brake kits are art.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    RallyRoad sold a kit in the past to put use Corvette brakes but I am not sure what vintage Corvette.
    C6 Z06. I assume for front. Not sure what these would do for bias.
    https://rallyroad.net/collections/br...akekitbrackets

  18. #18
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    C6 Z06. I assume for front. Not sure what these would do for bias.
    https://rallyroad.net/collections/br...akekitbrackets
    Not that the donor C6 Z06 calipers were anything to write home about.

    Neil

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