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Thread: The E39 LS wiring thread

  1. #1
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    The E39 LS wiring thread

    Well here it is... a e39 wiring thread!

    I've gotten to that point on my project and found a huge lack of information. Seems no one made any notes, and the websites that had good info have removed it recently. I borrowed Brandon's Bentley manual, which has an entire different book for wiring and electrical and is 838 pages of diagrams.

    I will post my useful findings as I go and hope you guys will have some input also.

    Seems most people ditch the DME and use a relay to ground out the DME relay. Any more info on that? Which relay is the DME relay, what wire gets grounded?

    Any issues with the EWS system?

    Any wire color and location info like tach, temp gauge, starter wire, ect...

    Will grounding the DME relay make the fuel pump relay function correctly without any modification?

    Links to websites with info
    Last edited by 357i; 03-25-2013 at 07:16 PM.

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    I thought I sent you a PM with the DME pinout info, maybe it was nsobiga. If he still has it, 90%+ of what you need is there. The DME relay will send power to the fuel pump relay when it's fed a ground. You will need to ground the fuel pump relay to turn it on. I used 2 extra relays to convert polarity to send + to these relays to turn them on. You could re-wire the relays, and I think someone else came up with another clever way that didn't involve 2 extra relays, but I guess I was feeling lazy.
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

  3. #3
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    Must have been him as I haven't seen that. Would love to have that info posted up here!

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    I believe I emailed you an Excel file with pertinent cluster and DME pinouts. Surely it must have answered some of your questions.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
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  5. #5
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    I plan on posting that up when I get to work tomorrow.

  6. #6
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    If everyone could throw all of their pics and knowledge in this thread it would make a great sticky and an awesome source of info. This would help a lot of people out on one of the most intimidating aspects of swapping an ls engine into an e39 chassis.

    Edit: and keep your pm's down

    Lelan
    Last edited by Lelan; 03-26-2013 at 03:42 AM.

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    I will wire someone's car if they come and hook up my AC (hoses and all). This is an open offer!

    Oh, and I'll also throw in cluster programming / warning light removal service, including working MPG gauge, OBC, etc
    Last edited by James39; 03-26-2013 at 08:18 AM. Reason: sweeten the pot
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

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    ^^ That is tempting. I do have all my AC lines left over from my car. Would need to braze on the GM fittings, though….

    Great idea for this thread. It’ll be nice to have one “go-to” place to have wiring questions answered.

    Since I am brain-dead with wiring and have a terrible memory, I’ve tried to save every snippet of wiring information I’ve ever come across since I started doing research on this swap back in June 2012.

    While it was freezing outside in December I started to tear into my untouched 2003 Chevy Express Van harness to take out the unnecessary circuits. I had the following questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by nsogiba View Post
    Since it's too cold to work in the garage and fab the manifolds, I figured I'd start on the harness in my living room.

    few questions regarding wiring the LQ4.

    I'm at the point in my swap where I'd like to start cleaning up the GM harness for use in my car.

    I don't want to tackle GM w/ BMW wiring integration yet, because I'd like to have a cleaned up GM harness first. The harness I have is an uncut, OEM stock harness that came with my LQ4--all out of a 2003 Chevy Express Van. I'd like to unwrap my harness, remove any unnecessary circuits/connectors (depin them as well) and shorten/lengthen the remainder of the GM harness to fit the dimensions of my engine bay.

    The harness PCM connectors are BLUE/GREEN on my harness, so I'm following this website for reference:

    I am using this website for all my reference.
    http://www.lt1swap.com/2004vortec_pcm.htm

    I am running a T56 from a 2002 Camaro SS for trans.

    Ok, now that the backstory is through [IMG]file:///C:\Users\nogiba\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

    1. Which circuits are unnecessary for this swap?

    Right off the bat, I plan on deleting the 2nd O2 sensors and VATS when I have the PCM tuned.

    I would assume these are the 2nd O2 pins to be removed?
    Pin 25 TAN 1671 HO2S Low Signal - Bank 2 Sensor 2
    Pin 28 TAN/WHT 1669 HO2S Low Signal - Bank 1 Sensor 2

    Is VATS only removed via tune, or are there wires as well to remove from the harness?

    What about removing anything in the harness labeled for automatic transmission?

    For example,
    Pin 32 Transmission Range Switch Signal A (A/T)
    Pin 72 Transmission Range Switch Signal B (A/T)
    Pin 32 AT ISS Low Signal (4WD w/MT1)

    I'm running neither 4WD nor A/T so it makes sense to me that they'd come out, but the website does not make mention of removing these.

    2. How is the OEM GM automatic harness supposed to interface with the T56 manual? Although my T56 came with all sensors, I don't have any of the "connectors/pigtails" that plug into the T56 since my harness is from an Auto.

    3. While at the junkyard, I picked up EV1 connectors that I'll resolder into the harness to be able to run a car style intake and injectors. No brainer there. While at the junkyard, I also grabbed a dual fan setup out of a 2005ish Monte Carlo (harness included, I clipped it well aft of the pigtails, which are still plugged into the fans. Would controlling the GM Monte Carlo fans with the Van PCM be as easy as adding pinouts into the van harness? Are there already pins there for contolling (what were) the van fans? The stock van fans had to have been controlled somehow.


    Paging rao, James, Schitzo, JF!

    And the other guys swapping now too!


    James was nice enough to send over a detailed post on what needs to be modified on the GM harness.



    Quote Originally Posted by James39 View Post
    Yes, VATS is removed in your tune, there's no other wires to remove. I imagine it's part of the serial data line coming from the cab, but we don't care about that after VATS is disabled in the PCM.

    Yes, you have the 2nd O2 sensors pegged, rip those out.

    For the transmission wires, remove any and all that say "(A/T) or (4WD)"

    also remove this: TCC Solenoid Valve Control (M30/M32)

    I think you'll find one big-ass automatic transmission plug that will take care of about 6 (maybe all?) the A/T related circuits.

    I don't have a CPP (clutch pedal position sensor) (C1 #35) signal hooked up, but I guess if I ever want cruise to work, I'll need to add it back in. It might not even work on the van PCM without an M/T segment swap, if that's even possible.

    VSS C2, #20 and #21 are all you need for the 6-speed trans. I can't remember, but I think the VSS plug from the auto trans fits the T56. When you re-calibrate, you will need to change the VSS type in your tune From the A/T pulses per rev to the M/T pulses per rev (I forget what the actual values are)

    The other thing you need to hook up on the T56 is the reverse lock-out. F-body PCM's have a nice output that switches 12v when speed is < 5mph. There is no truck configuration out there that uses this type of speed controlled 12v output, so best bet is to buy a stand-alone controller that runs off your VSS signal and does the 12v switching for you. http://www.samocoind.com/T56MODULE.html

    DO NOT install that T56 without installing a ford reverse light switch that has the plug facing down (stock GM t56 switch points straight out and you can't fit the plug due to lack of clearance at the trans tunnel). It was a 1-hr ordeal trying to get this switch swapped out after the trans was already installed. See this thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...hlight=reverse

    Here's your T56 pigtails: They are sold individually, but you'll need reverse lights and reverse lockout pigtail for sure. Might as well just get all 3 together: http://www.ebay.com/itm/T56-Installation-Set-Backup-Lamp-Reverse-Lockout-and-VSS-Pigtail-Connectors-/290842364825?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &hash=item43b78e4b99&vxp=mtr

    If you are having the PCM control AC operation, you don't want to follow the guide and rip out all of the AC wires that are shaded yellow. You'll want those to stay there.

    Also, on your VAN PCM, C2 #17 is the 12v AC Request signal (it should be light green, let me know if that's what you have too.)

    Look at C1 #42 and C2 #33 for your fan relay triggers. The on/off temps and "fan (or fans) on with A/C operation" will all be done by the PCM.

    :Edited because I forgot the reverse lights switch!

    Let me know if I forgot anything
    - - - Updated - - -

    Listing of circuits that I removed.

    Some were not in my specific PCM connectors (since the van was not 4WD among other options), so those are labeled "NOT PRESENT".

    BLUE
    17 DK BLU 1225 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal B (A/T)
    18 RED 1226 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal C (A/T)
    25 TAN 1671 HO2S Low Signal - Bank 2 Sensor 2
    28 TAN/WHT 1669 HO2S Low Signal - Bank 1 Sensor 2
    30 LT GRN 1478 Coolant Level Switch Signal (empty 2006+) NOT PRESENT
    32 BLK/WHT 771 Transmission Range Switch Signal A (A/T)
    34 WHT 776 Transmission Range Switch Signal P (A/T) PCM can be programmed to accept a SINGLE WIRE park/neutral signal on this PIN, if no trans mounted range sensor is present
    53 GRY 720 Low Reference (TRANS)
    56 WHT 1579 Fuel Temperature/Composition Signal (L59) Flex Fuel Sensor (PCM SHOULD BE PROGRAMMED TO REMOVE FLEX FUEL FUNCTION)
    65 PPL 1670 HO2S High Signal - Bank 2 Sensor 2
    68 PPL/WHT 1668 HO2S High Signal - Bank 1 Sensor 2
    72 YEL 772 Transmission Range Switch Signal B (A/T)
    79 WHT 687 3-2 Shift Solenoid Valve Control (M30/M32) NOT PRESENT


    GREEN
    2 BRN 418 TCC PWM Solenoid Valve Control (A/T)
    3 TAN 1465 Fuel Pump Relay Control – Secondary NOT PRESENT
    6 RED/BLK 1228 PC Solenoid Valve High Control (A/T)
    8 LT BLU/WHT 1229 PC Solenoid Valve Low Control (A/T)
    16 GRY/BLK 1694 4WD Low Signal (KEEP IF USING STOCK TRANSFER CASE IN A 4WD APPLACTION, WITH VSS ON OUTPUT OF TRANSFER CASE. NOT PRESENT
    22 RED/BLK 1230 AT ISS High Signal (4WD w/MT1)
    23 DK BLU/WHT 1231 AT ISS Low Signal (4WD w/MT1)
    42 TAN/BLK 422 TCC Solenoid Valve Control (M30/M32) NOT PRESENT
    47 YEL/BLK 1223 2-3 Shift Solenoid Valve Control (A/T)
    48 LT GRN 1222 1-2 Shift Solenoid Valve Control (A/T)
    51 YEL/BLK 1227 TFT Sensor Signal (A/T)
    52 BRN 2391 HO2S Heater Low Control Bank 1 Sensor 2
    53 RED/WHT 3223 HO2S Heater Low Control Bank 2 Sensor 2
    54 PPL 1589 Fuel Level Sensor Signal - Primary
    62 GRY 773 Transmission Range Switch Signal C (A/T)
    63 PNK 1224 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal A (A/T)
    73 DK BLU 1936 Fuel Level Sensor Signal – Secondary NOT PRESENT


    That is pretty much everything I have that pertains to modifying the stock GM harness out of the car.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have a habit of saving very useful links and emailing them to myself, so I went back and looked all this info up from the past 6 months.

    Here’s what I have as far as mating the GM harness with the BMW harness and actually doing the “swap” wiring.

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...4#post22822514

    Quote Originally Posted by James39 View Post
    The schematic is all in my head

    The DME triggers a relay that enables at least 4 othe relays. The DME relay needs a ground to trigger itself though, so I used a second separate relay to convert KEY+ to ground. There... now whatever is being powered by the DME relay is on-line.

    The fuel pump is controlled by the DME, but also requires a ground to trigger it. So, I used yet another relay (connected to the GM PCM's + fuel pump relay signal) to convert that to a ground.

    At this point, I have the DME relay (and all associated relays triggered by the DME) getting power, and the BMW fuel pump (and relay) are being controlled by the GM PCM.

    The 6-circuit mini fuse holder in the e-box is what I used to power everything else.

    2 are 12v+ constant, the other 5 are 12v+ key+ and start.

    The last wire you need is on the 18-pin connector in the e-box (separate from the DME plugs) that provides 12v when key is in the "start" position.

    It's really that simple


    OBD2 Port Wiring Detail (for the GM harness, obviously)

    http://www.lt1swap.com/fuseblock_obd2port.html


    Coding your cluster to work with GM inputs

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ster-Re-Coding

    Quote Originally Posted by rao View Post
    “How do I deal with the CAN-BUS?” “How can I make the instrument cluster work in an e39 with an engine swap?” I get asked this question more often than you can imaging, Posts, PMs, e-mails, texts, Facebook messages (and I’m not even on Facebook). I don't browse this forum very often or have time to respond in depth to every inquiry. The basics have been posted by me and others, but now I am going to put it all in one place. All inquires will be directed here.

    First off, I take absolutely no credit for figuring this out, Schitzo figured out how to make this work by some form of magic long ago.

    In the modern era, the IKE can be recoded easily with NCS Expert and/or PA Soft, which I prefer for this particular application because it is so easy and very hard to do incorrectly (also it is way easier to show how do this in PA Soft than it is with NCS Expert).

    If you can’t get NCS Expert to work and especially if you can’t get PA Soft to work, you really shouldn’t be trying to do the recoding. The same thing goes if you can’t read the WDS wiring diagrams or add a wire to a BMW connector. This thread is how to do the coding and make the cluster work, not how to wire the entire car.

    The e39 has a lot of modules, which are all just small computers. They will eventually drive you nuts if you have one of these cars long enough, but one advantage is that they allow BMW to use the same parts for cars in different markets with different options.

    What you need to do is to tell the instrument cluster that the coolant temperature signal and the tach signal are old-fashioned analog signals. The good news is that in some e39s this is true, so the cluster has to be able to accommodate analog signals for these gauges.

    Below is the screen from PASoft where you do this:





    As you can see, the yellow are shows UNCHECKED boxes for “Engine speed via CAN” and “Coolant temp via CAN”. Once these boxes are UNCHECKED, the instrument cluster stops looking for these signals by the CAN BUS and starts looking for them as analog signals – it is that easy.

    You can also use PASoft or NCS Expert to change the maintenance indicator, turn off the DSC light and lots of other things, but that is outside the scope of this thread.

    Now that the cluster is re-coded, you need to do some wiring, so that the instrument cluster can get the analog signals that it is now looking for. The tach signal wire will usually be in place but check it, here is the WDS wiring diagram:




    Make sure that the wire #3 on connector x10114 goes to the tach signal and it will work (verify the wiring diagram for your level of instrument cluster just to be safe).


    Here is the coolant temp WDS wiring diagram:



    For the coolant temp signal, one wire will usually be missing, so make sure that they are both there by adding a wire to the connector at the missing pins #18 and #19 on connector x10114 are connected to your BMW coolant temp sensor (again verify the wiring diagram for your level of instrument cluster just to be safe).

    There you have it.

    I ask people please not to clutter this thread with a bunch of junk and to keep it focused so that it is of use to other people. [IMG]file:///C:\Users\nogiba\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image006.gif[/IMG]

    Happy swapping!


    Quote Originally Posted by James39 View Post
    The equipment I used is here: http://www.bmwcoding.com/showthread....in-with-K-DCAN

    There is supposedly a more direct connection you can make without all the adapters (someone links to the less cumbersome setup in the thread linked above), but I already mis-guided myself into buying the one I started with, so I figured what the hell, might as well try it and see if it worked. Well, it did [IMG]file:///C:\Users\nogiba\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image007.gif[/IMG]It seems that with the new hardware I bought, I can code just about any e39 to present BMW's. Seems better to me than buying an interface made specifically for later model 20-pin equipped cars.

    The software is called NCS Expert, I followed the walkthrough in the PDF posted here to actually do the work: http://www.bmwcoding.com/showthread....oding-your-car

    The re-code procedure tells the instrument cluster to look for analog signals instead of can-bus messages, so I am going to add 2 new pins to the back of my instrument cluster in the same place they go for a 1996-1997. What could possibly go wrong? [IMG]file:///C:\Users\nogiba\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01 \clip_image008.gif[/IMG]
    These are all on 26-pin blue on 96-97 WDS:
    #3 tach

    #18 BR/GE and #19 BR/VI coolant temp (was hoping to use a second 1-wire coolant temp sensor, looks like that won't work will probably splice into GM sensor)

    #13 injection signal (I wonder if setting that to analog and tying in one of the GM injector signals will make the gauge move?)

    18-pin black
    Check engine light on the early models is power through X16 #17, ground is X16 #2 Not sure if the bulb/circuitry is in the newer clusters or not.



    That’s all I have for now.
    Last edited by nsogiba; 03-26-2013 at 09:21 AM.

    2001 BMW 560i 6.0 LSx/T56 SOLD


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    Well played, sir.

  10. #10
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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  11. #11
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    I don't have my DME or DME relay anymore. I ran my fuel pump trigger wire directly to the file pump.... So I guess I'm not using my fuel pump relay either, didn't like the idea of relays to switch relays, that's just me.

    I used a pre made harness from GMPP comes with the ECU, throttle pedal O2s and a harness. Let me tell you it makes wiring a BREEZE, no de-pinning and rewiring harnesses. The way I did mine I had to tapped power into pin 7 of X6011 which is a white 11 pin plug in the ebox that turns on the abs module and gets the speedo working.
    Pin 10 (black) for CEL and pin 6 (black) for tach, I don't have water temp hooked up because the gauge in the cluster is useless, that's for the KOM cluster not the IKE cluster.
    I have no EWS in my car either, when you remove the stock DME the EWS is disabled I believe.

    Coding, I changed the following: Can-drehzahl (rpm)Konventionell


    Can-ganganzeige (gear display)
    Konventionell


    Can-kuehlmitteltemp (coolant temp)
    Konventionell


    Motor-faktor (4cyl or 6cyl tach)
    2_imp/umdrehung (for 4cyl tach)

    and I'm sure there's more, just can't think of it right now.
    Last edited by Jesus Freak; 03-26-2013 at 10:26 AM.

  12. #12
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    You got the E67 ECU kit right? That's the one I got too if so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RVAE34 View Post
    You got the E67 ECU kit right? That's the one I got too if so.
    Yah, as far as I know all their kits use the E67 ECU, just different tunes.

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    More please.
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  15. #15
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    Guys using the stock temp gauge, are you putting the e39 sensor in the LS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 357i View Post
    Guys using the stock temp gauge, are you putting the e39 sensor in the LS?
    I didn't. I used an autometer sender in the other side of the head. Had to put a resistor in-line to make the factory gauge not peg to red within about 5 minutes of engine startup.
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

  17. #17
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    Interesting. I'll be honest, i dont care about it being accurate as I use a scan gauge in the car to monitor everything. I just cant stand having something like that in the dash not look like its working. I have the e36 sender in the head now, so maybe that will provide a close ohm range.

  18. #18
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    You guys just love to make things complicated, even the second time around

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ht=13621703993

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=13621703993
    Rob
    Prior projects:
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    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357i View Post
    I just cant stand having something like that in the dash not look like its working.
    I know the feeling well, I couldn't leave mpg gauge looking dead either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rao View Post
    You guys just love to make things complicated, even the second time around
    Taught them everything you know and they still don't know nothin. some kids, I tell ya.
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357i View Post
    Guys using the stock temp gauge, are you putting the e39 sensor in the LS?
    Yep stock e39 gauge in the passenger rear head. Temp gauge works as normal at op temp its strait up. No pegging here
    Clint
    2006 X5 L83 5.3 6l80 swapped in progress
    1999 528i 5.7L 4l60e swapped w/ 31 spline 8.8 cobra diff
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  21. #21
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    Someone had previously removed the DME relay from my car. Seems to me the relay triggers power to two fuses in this little fuse block and the large red/white wire going into this 12 pin connector:



    Any reason not to use a seperate relay to power those rather than make a ground for the DME relay?

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    That's the wire that powers the abs module, which you need for the speedo to work. It needs power somehow, I rigged up my own relay instead of using the stock relay.

  23. #23
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    I have been spending time reading wiring diagrams and putting together my plan. I'm curious if there is a place to find connector locations. Obviously diagrams give me a connector number like X60xxx, but trying to find these connectors is a bit of a pain.

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    That's what I liked about the online WDS (before they took it down) it gave you pictures of the connectors. I might have a cd with WDS on it, I'll look for it this evening and see what all it has on it.

  25. #25
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    You people are starting to scare me

    WDS is still available online.
    Rob
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