Transmission "sealing sleeve" repair

[MalcolmV8]

Recently had my 07 335xi in the bmw dealer for a wheel alignment and check over and they want to replace a seal on the transmission. He called it the sealing sleeve or perhaps the seal on the cylinder that needs to be replaced. Anyone familiar with this?

The way the shop explained it is the shift mechanism for the transmission is external and there's a cylinder or slave that connects it to the transmission and when that seal leaks it needs to be replaced. It sounds liked all external work on the outside of the transmission. They want $845.67 plus tax to change that seal.

Is this something I can do on my own? I work on cars, rebuild engines etc. so I have the tools etc. Just not familiar with BMWs at all.

[02325]

prob very similar to the 745/750/545/550 trans issue.

search for that repair.

the trans pan has to be removed to replace it.

[MalcolmV8]

He did say they would also remove the trans pan and replace that gasket. I just assumed because that gasket had a leak too. Didn't think to ask if that was part of the process of repairing the cylinder/sleeve seal.

[ptarditi]

The lock that holds the sleeve in place is inside the transmission.

[MalcolmV8]

The lock that holds the sleeve in place is inside the transmission.

So all you do is drop the pan to release the lock? Any howtos out there or other info? Would much rather just do this myself. Thanks.

[e34Croak]

Mechatronics sealing sleeve?

[Stück]

Mechatronics sealing sleeve?

This, and its a VERY common problem.

$18 part, 24 34 7 588 725

Procedure PDF here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=502987

[MalcolmV8]

This, and its a VERY common problem.

$18 part, 24 34 7 588 725

Procedure PDF here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=502987

Very cool. Thanks for the info. That PDF leaves some info out. Like why do you remove the oil pan? It doesn't reference ever accessing anything from inside the transmission?

I'll have to get under the car and take a look at the mechatronics sleave and harness under the car. Looks fairly easy in that PDF.

Is there a preferred BMW website where you guys get parts? I'm new to working on BMWs, I know where to get parts for Fords, Hondas etc. but still grasping the ropes and figuring out the BMW world. I'll also be needing a new valve cover. Seems mine has a crack in it and leaking on the back side so I'll pick up one of those at the same time.

[TwinScrollTurbo]

To remove the sealing sleeve, you need to remove the pan because the sleeve is locked in by a mechanism with the trans. It is an easy job.
Drain the oil in a clean container. You don't want to buy or use new fluid in an older trans. Once you do that, there is a collar on the outside of the sleeve. Turn it counter clockwise. You can then remove the connector off the sleeve. Then towards the passengers rear inside the trans is a white plastic piece. Pull down on it and the sleeve unlocks. You can then remove the old sleeve and toss in a new one. You really have to force the new one is and it is notched so it only goes in one way. Once it is in and you've got force on it, you should be able to push the white lock back upwards. Replace the gasket on the pan and reinstall it. You will need a pump to get the fluid back into the trans. Once it fills with the car off, you will have a lot of left over fluid. Start the car and keep readding fluid until it comes out the fill plug a final time.
With the right tools, this job can be done in an hour or so. You will need an 8mm hex key for the fill plug. May be a T30 for the trans pan bolts. Could be larger. I use a really long pick and pry bar to remove and install the sleeve. You cannot reach it by hand and doing it on a lift, it can be done without removing the drive shaft and other crap in the way. I think the trans cross member is the main thing in the way.
If your trans has a plastic pan, it will be smart to also order a new drain plug. It is also plastic. And you will want to grease the o-rings on the new sleeve. If you have any engine rebuilding grease or something, that should work. Tossing a dry sleeve in will be a disaster. Always use lube.
As for the N52 valve cover, you sure it has a leak and it isn't the gasket that is allowing oil to leak past it? I've only worked on BMWs for a few months now. Seen tons of valve cover gaskets leaking never once a cracked cover. You will need a valve cover gasket, grommet set as the bolts are reused but the rubber grommets around them should be replaced, and get some RTV. I add RTV where the head meets front timing cover and flat surface the valve cover lies against. Three mating surfaces are not good so a little RTV keeps the oil in.

[02325]

his cover bolts have to be replaced due to they are aluminum bolts and they are torque to yield. you also need trans pan bolts too.

[ezbmr]

I always thought that you just buy the kit with new fluid, but I guess it depends on how long your fluid has been in there

http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...=187&parent=43

[MalcolmV8]

Lots of good info and a good link there. You guys rock. We have over a foot of snow on the ground right now so not much happening for the next few days but first I need to get under there and see if I have a plastic or metal oil pan or what it has.

[TwinScrollTurbo]

I always thought that you just buy the kit with new fluid, but I guess it depends on how long your fluid has been in there

http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...=187&parent=43

A car that has anywhere near 100k, you put that oil fluid back in. Only top off with new fluid. That is a very bad idea tossing new fluid in there. If the trans uses clutch packs and you put new fluid in there and it is missing the grittiness of the old fluid to help keep it working as it has been for the last few years, the clutch packs slip causing premature wear. Either one of two things will happen. The trans will notice the slippage and adjust pressures accordingly or it will slip so bad the first few attempts to shift the remaining material will rub off completely and you've destroyed the trans. The later is very possible.
As for the rest of that kit, if it is a plastic pan, replacing the pan is a good idea. Plastic can warp, especially when dealing with the constant temp change a car endures every day. As for other comments in this tread, I can't say I have replaced trans pan bolts before. I don't remember them being aluminum. But the N52 valve cover bolts are and need to be replaced. I forgot about that.

[ezbmr]

I have had my fluid changed on my E39 and E46, but my E46 lost its reverse gear, if anything, I certainly would like to have tried keeping the old fluid, being that I had it replaced soon after I bought it at 155k. To think I might have actually caused the premature failure of my reverse gear and the po741 code that, I knew I would eventually have to replace, while spending money needlessly.

Since I had my E39 since 59k, I replaced it at 100k, and another time after that. Perhaps I will have it replaced again.

It seems with the E60 and having the composite pan and it has the propensity to leak, I would think that the fluid has been changed before. I need to call the guy who had the one E60, he said he had another one. The other one had a lot of records, so it might have had some transmission oil changes before.

[MalcolmV8]

A car that has anywhere near 100k, you put that oil fluid back in. Only top off with new fluid. That is a very bad idea tossing new fluid in there. If the trans uses clutch packs and you put new fluid in there and it is missing the grittiness of the old fluid to help keep it working as it has been for the last few years, the clutch packs slip causing premature wear. Either one of two things will happen. The trans will notice the slippage and adjust pressures accordingly or it will slip so bad the first few attempts to shift the remaining material will rub off completely and you've destroyed the trans. The later is very possible.

Is this something specific to BMWs? Where are you getting this information? I saw your prior post a week ago and asked the BMW dealership as they said they'd be putting in fresh fluid. I then also called and asked a couple independent shops here in KC and they all said fresh fluid as well. They all said not changing transmission fluid is a myth.
I've changed the oil in a 120k mile + fords before and they continued to run just fine to 180 ~ 200k plus when I sold them. I'd like more information on where you're getting this from?

[ezbmr]

Some people believe that at a certain point,it would be worse to change the fluid, now if you had changed it at say 100k or less, than, it would be okay. Some people believe that the fluids synthetic package gets better with time. It almost doesn't matter with these new composite transmission pans, someones idea to match hot metal surfaces with plastic, that are expected to hold fluid. That being said, BMW has gotten rid of the thought that lifetime fluids last a life time. I believe a lot of the E60 drivers are replacing their every 50k. The Kit is about $240. Perhaps the newer transmissions will last longer than the 5HP19s, of course the newer transmissions get the mileage of a manual, and usually go just as fast.

[TwinScrollTurbo]

Is this something specific to BMWs? Where are you getting this information? I saw your prior post a week ago and asked the BMW dealership as they said they'd be putting in fresh fluid. I then also called and asked a couple independent shops here in KC and they all said fresh fluid as well. They all said not changing transmission fluid is a myth.
I've changed the oil in a 120k mile + fords before and they continued to run just fine to 180 ~ 200k plus when I sold them. I'd like more information on where you're getting this from?

Fords use Dex/Merc which is a gritty trans fluid to begin with. So maybe you are able to get by with longer interval flushes.
I went through the BMW dealer training program. I'm a level 1 tech but i have only worked on BMWs for a few months now. I went to tech school where my auto trans teacher said what I did above. I figure a guy with 15 yrs experience knows a good deal. I've worked at various independent shops and dealers over the last couple years and no one would recommend a flush service on a higher mileage car.
Maybe there is a reason for this. It could be with the advancement of transmissions of the years they are more capable of handling drastic changes in main line pressure and can compensate quickly before slipping and tearing up the clutch packs. The other half of the issue being liability. Say a dealer got burned once after flushing an old trans and it took a dump immediately afterwards. They sell a $100 flush or whatever it costs and are now on the hook for buying the customer a new trans. Its a risk I am suspecting techs and dealers I've worked with aren't willing to risk. I sure don't want to buy a customer a trans. Would you? Get where I am going at?
You do as you wish. Me, i avoid the whole situation completely. I only drive stick. I was just trying to give you my own perspective. You do realize you are coming to a forum for help. All advice should be taken with a grain of salt.

[MalcolmV8]

You must have much nicer dealerships than me. If my transmission fails a week after they change the fluid it's my problem not theirs. Un related as far as they'll be concerned. That's a whole different topic.

Anyhow I'm just not following this logic. So the transmission can't handle the pressure differences inside (what? the valve body?) and it fails. How did it handle the pressure when it was new? I know you are saying pressure has changed over the years/miles and then you put fresh fluid in and now its a suddenly different. Is it really that different? and once again it handled this exact pressure when new.

Also if it's as simple as having some gritty stuff in the oil as you say why would dextron/merc have it and not the bmw oil? Putting back the old oil as your only saving grace for the transmission seems very weird to me. So if the dealer was doing the work and they accidentally dumped the old oil you're saying I'm hosed. They can't put in fresh oil so now what? Hit the junk yards and find some old crappy oil with "grit" in it and put that in my transmission? It just doesn't make sense.

[TwinScrollTurbo]

You do realize I said it was a possibility, not a certainty, right?
So, you know what a clutch pack is? It is a plate of metal and next to it is a plate that has the friction material. Each pack probably has about a dozen metal plates with a friction plate between each one. Over time, the friction material wears out and is absorbed into the fluid. And over time the material gets thinner. Meaning slightly more pressure is needed to compress the clutch pack together so it can do its thing ice get into a gear. So, you take a trans and flush it every 30k and the fluid stays fresher. Take a trans with 100k worth of friction material in it. Even though the clutch packs may be thinner, the fluid still has all the grit to do its job properly without letting the discs with the material slip causing faster wear. Now take the trans and toss new fluid in it. At startup, it could sense the clutches slipping real fast and boost pressure to compensate and everything will be peachy. Or if the material is already thin and the trans can't compensate fast enough, it will slip and eat off the remaining material and you'll be stuck without a gear.
It is an immediate thing I am talking about. It won't take weeks for the trans to take a dump. You'll engage it the first time and it will work or it may not. So, a customer takes their car in, has it serviced and says it destroys the trans. Are you expecting the phone call to go, "oh hi, we flushed the trans but now it no longer works. That will be an additional $2000 parts and labor?" Cause that is how you expect the phone call to go, either one- you are taking your car to bad shops or two- you are a sucker who doesn't understand his rights as customer.
If you are still not sure about what it I am taking about and how a transmission works, I'd hit up Google or a library. Not being rude. But if you want to work on your own vehicles, you should know some basic fundamentals about what it is and how it works. Ignorance isn't bliss.
If you don't believe what it is I am saying, ignore my statement about replacing the fluid. Like you said, you've had no problem before so I wouldn't worry.

[MalcolmV8]

No need for personal attacks. I'm fully aware of how the internals work. At least on Fords. I've rebuilt a few 4r70w (electronic version of the AOD) and on the stick side I've rebuilt a few T5s and T56s from the Mustangs. I know how those work. I just don't see a fluid change destroying the transmission.

It reminds me of the myths back in the day that switching your engine to synthetic would cause the seals to leak. Yes there was a half truth there because the synthetics would clean out all the crud in some old motors and on some of them all that sludge was clogging an already shoddy seal which would then start to leak.

Your argument is that over time the clutch packs wear and require more pressure to keep them together. However since the fluid was never changed additional pressure is not required since the worn fibers from the clutch packs now dissolved in the fluid is providing the friction they need to not slip.
So what your'e saying is change the oil at 100k miles and the fresh fluid will now allow the disks to slip because the transmission needs a higher line pressure which it may or may not give. (I assume this is something the ECU controls automatically on these cars?).
However had I changed the fluid at some regular shorter interval (say every 30k miles) the requirements for additional pressure on the clutch packs would have been smaller and the ECU could have applied that without any detrimental affects to the clutch packs. Did I get that right? That's exactly what you're saying right?

Your theory above also implies that the clutch packs have the bare minimal fluid pressure required to stop them slipping and as wear occurs the ECU increases line pressure to stop that.
In addition your theory states that lack of line pressure can be compensated by having worn clutch pack material dissolved into the fluid to stop clutch pack slip. I find that hard to believe.

So my question is how much more line pressure does a 100k mile transmission need to hold the clutch packs together than a brand new set? I would venture to guess so minimal it's negligent. I base that on my knowledge of the 4r70w's I worked on. Granted I am by no means an auto tranny expert but I will tell you I didn't see anything in there that mechanically made adjustments to compensate line pressure for clutch pack wear. I also tune my own cars and in the tune I find where I can set line pressure but again it's a constant for your setup and takes no account of mileage on the transmission.

In some projects I've also used 3rd party transmission controllers for engines that did not use an ECC capable of controlling the 4r70w. In those instances I used the Baummann Engineering controller now called the US Shift http://www.usshift.com/ and same thing in their programming. Line pressure etc. that you setup initially, but never a compensation for mileage or clutch pack wear.

So this goes back to my original question I asked you. Is this something specific to bmw transmissions? No need for personal attacks either or tell me I'm an idiot and need to go google a clutch pack. I'm not attacking you, just questioning the info at hand.

[MalcolmV8]

double post

[TwinScrollTurbo]

Nor was I attacking you. Your previous post made you sound very ignorant so I didn't know where else to start but basic.
As I said before, this is all info taught or passed on to me from other techs. It could be the same sort of myth like the synth oil. You could be 100% correct.
The BMW trans class was unfortunately. very basic when it comes to learning how the trans works. We basically got our hands dirty pulling transmissions for a few days. Besides the sleeve and pan, we don't touch them anymore. We work with the manufacturer when there is a problem and when there is, the module is programmed or the trans is replaced. So, I don't have any more knowledge on BMW transmissions than what I told you about how to replace the sleeve.
I will say this. Pressures do change significantly over time. We can reset adaptation valves. And we will if we get approval from the trans people. (Helps having no liability on our end). I had this discussion with the foreman before and he said that they reset the values on a high mileage E53 once and that alone killed the trans. I wasn't there so I didn't get to see what happened so I don't have anything to offer than that.

[MalcolmV8]

Well I definitely appreciate the feed back. Certainly brings up a lot of good points to think about.

[TwinScrollTurbo]

Well I definitely appreciate the feed back. Certainly brings up a lot of good points to think about.

We're all here to learn. I would have never bothered to swap fluid on a high mileage trans and yet you've do so successfully multiple times. Pretty cool.

[npopov]

Im 7 years late. But what we are dealing with is superseded information. The pan says lifetime fluid don't change but when you look up the 2002 BMW x5 service table [on alldata for example] @100k miles it says "Replace
Fluid - A/T BMW Automatic Transmission Service, change and filter at intervals of 100,000mi." But we've all at one point heard it otherwise, thats why i always try to save as much of the old fluid as possible. Taking into account the fact that the pan only holds 50% of the fluid, there's plenty of gritty fluid left in the torque converter