Butters project GO-FAST (LOUNGE STYLE)

[uconnr]

Happy to help! Goodluck with the install

[spenka]

Install complete
The good....
No more rattle....
Install seems to be done correctly. ...

The bad....
Now I'm hearing a whining sound on the rev and what seems to be power steering fluid on my test drive path..
I'm hoping it's exactly that, just the power steering.

It won't be driven on roadways for another month probably but other things will be repaired and replaced.

[flyfishvt]

It could easily be PS. I just did a motor swap in a 94 325 vert. Every thing went fine until I test drove the car. It made that horrible groaning noise the PS makes when it's low on fluid. I topped it off and went lock to lick a few times to purge out the air. Everything was great until I did a few more test drives and the groaning returned. I looked under the car and it was all wet around the PS pump. I cleaned it off and tightened the banjo bolts a little. A few more test drives and the same thing. I finally cranked down on the banjo bolts that attach to the pump and eventually felt that semi-loose feeling when a crush washer finally gives way like its supposed to. So after all that work it was a leaky banjo bolt because I was being too gentle and didn't crush the crush washer.

Cardboard confirms it. No more leaks and the new owner just drove it to Florida.

[spenka]

I have a theory and need the opinion of The Lounge.
Not exact numbers and US motors.....

1. S50 stroke 86mm
2. S52 stroke 89mm
3. Rod lengths both 135 mm
4. Both bore relatively the same
5. S50 piston compression 10.2
6. S52 piston compression 10.5
7. S52 piston pin more recessed in piston
8. S50 piston pin not as recessed

Theory is.. lower compression in full stock setup......

S50 crank and rods with s52 pistons.
=lower compression and still stock setup.
If possible, would piston compression be lowered to approximately 9.5?

[Butters Stoch]

Your better off with a spacer
If your going to open the motor, then build it.
Don't play with stock pistons to get your compression. Remember one of the reasons people swap out pistons is the weak ringlands.
Phil ran JE stock compression pistons for years and using a spacer, more than likely if he had stock pistons they would have been trashed. Those same JE pistons will be in my next creation.

Get a CES cutring/spacer combo. Or a MLS if budget is lower.

[spenka]

Your better off with a spacer
If your going to open the motor, then build it.
Don't play with stock pistons to get your compression. Remember one of the reasons people swap out pistons is the weak ringlands.
Phil ran JE stock compression pistons for years and using a spacer, more than likely if he had stock pistons they would have been trashed. Those same JE pistons will be in my next creation.

Get a CES cutring/spacer combo. Or a MLS if budget is lower.

I have 2 engines working with. S50 in car and m52 partially pulled apart in garage. The s50 is going to remain stock but still low boosted/hp while I slowly but surely build the m52 to s52 or s50 spec to replace the current s50 in the car.
The m52 I'm putting together is just to replace the key components like all bearing, rings, m crank, pistons and cylinder head parts to handle up to 600hp/tq more reliably. I'm trying to get some time to take the head to get checked at the machine shop in Bethel, Ct. I listened, understood and agreed with the advice given to me so far and I don't need anymore power than that, I want it to still be sort of a dd.
I have some stock s52 pistons and rods coming my way but haven't decided what crank I'm using yet....I need recommendations on that. Please let me know...... s52 or s50 crank?

[Butters Stoch]

If your going to S52 rods and pistons, then get S52 crank. Displacement my friend.

Phil and I have somewhat similar setups. But his (S52) has a good 50+ more TQ and hits alot faster then my M52. This is mostly due to displacement. You will spool a bigger turbo alot quicker with more displacement. NO LAG.

[spenka]

If your going to S52 rods and pistons, then get S52 crank. Displacement my friend.

Phil and I have somewhat similar setups. But his (S52) has a good 50+ more TQ and hits alot faster then my M52. This is mostly due to displacement. You will spool a bigger turbo alot quicker with more displacement. NO LAG.

No lag sounds great! Lol. GT3582R would still be usable for up to 600hp/tq? I will settle with 550 or 575 though.

[Butters Stoch]

Gtx35r will get you 600. Gt35r will if its pushed. Best to keep boost around 20psi as a high boost. This will give you a final compression ratio of 20:1 if you lower down to 8.5-9:1 via built engine or spacer.

Now if you plan on E85 that's different, but we spoke about 93 octane correct? If your heart is set on 600+, you might want a 4088 or 4094 or 6466 something like that. But spool will be compromised.

[spenka]

93 octane yes, e85 no... not yet. 600 is the ball park figure, not much over, without compromising spool time. I'm going with the same turbo setup you recommended though gt35 and I'll start there.

[Butters Stoch]

93 octane yes, e85 no... not yet. 600 is the ball park figure, not much over, without compromising spool time. I'm going with the same turbo setup you recommended though gt35 and I'll start there.

Buy that last, there will be some local FS come winter I predict.

[spenka]

Buy that last, there will be some local FS come winter I predict.

Great! I remember you were saying that.

[pbonsalb]

If using S52 pistons, you have to use S52 crank. The rods are all 135 mm, so the crank throw and piston pin height change. Mixing and matching won't work.

GT3582R is a very good fit for an S52 with up to about 550 rwhp. I am not sure how much more it will do, but I will try to find out. I have done 521 at 18 psi and 560 at 20, and plan to try 22 on the dyno soon. I suspect that by 23-24, boost will be dropping by redline because the turbo won't be able to keep up.

If you must have 600+, you can pay more for a GTX3582R that can keep making power without compromising spool or go to a bigger turbo that will sacrifice spool but make more top end power. Or change turbos in a few years if you decide you need more. I have been happy for 4 years with the GT3582R and am only now getting the itch for more. You need built internals for more -- aftermarket rods and pistons.

[Butters Stoch]

I think spenka should take a ride up and experience 500+ and then decide if its not enough. It would be best, it might not even be what you are looking for. To some people its too much.

[pbonsalb]

The bang for the buck to me is probably the M52 with thicker headgasket and GT30R and 450 rwhp. More power comes with more expense or more compromise or both. I proceeded fairly gradually through the power levels. Stage 1 centrifugal, stage 2 centrifugal, stage 3 centrifugal, though I then jumped to what I would call a stage 3 turbo because by then I knew what I wanted. The people with 200 rwhp M3 who say the want 600 rwhp amaze me. Triple the power and no experience?

[spenka]

My reason for 600 is when I build it, it will be very reliable up to that power level with no issues. I'm building for 600 but I may not be tuned to push that much. For me, I don't just jump in a high hp car thinking I can do anything with it. I gradually get to know the car till I know I can handle it in any situation.
But I would still want to see the lounge high power machines.
I intend to be at the track one day when you all are there.

[pbonsalb]

If you want 600 reliably, which is almost an oxymoron in a car with all its parts designed for 300, forget about the used stock S52 pistons you have coming. You need to buy aftermarket forged pistons and aftermarket forged rods. Just make sure that whatever pistons you use are designed to fit whatever crank you use.

[Butters Stoch]

If you want 600 reliably, which is almost an oxymoron in a car with all its parts designed for 300, forget about the used stock S52 pistons you have coming. You need to buy aftermarket forged pistons and aftermarket forged rods. Just make sure that whatever pistons you use are designed to fit whatever crank you use.

This is what I've been trying to say in other threads, 600 is a different ballpark. Best to keep it @ 500-550 max.
Spenka is getting anxious, everytime I read this makes me want to go on the highway.

[cj.surr]

Got sooooo close to racing a couple of lambos and GTRs last night in mexico... smokey caught up quick. It's a good thing I wasn't in a supercar.

[Butters Stoch]

Got sooooo close to racing a couple of lambos and GTRs last night in mexico... smokey caught up quick. It's a good thing I wasn't in a supercar.

I've put a couple lengths on a couple GTRs, been trying to set up a run vs a somewhat family members lambo to put him in his place.
But it hasn't happened yet.

[spenka]

I've put a couple lengths on a couple GTRs, been trying to set up a run vs a somewhat family members lambo to put him in his place.
But it hasn't happened yet.

After reading this..........
I'll stick with 550! Lol.

I've seen a stock GTR smoke everything that went against him 1 night... gt500...zo6...ss camaros....
And YOUR SETUP IS PULLING GTRs! Wow!

I just noticed in all the comments everyone stated 500-550 rwhp.... full power to the wheels. .. I was thinking crank.
I'm in NH almost every night..... With my 500hp/ 2500tq machine...daycab Freightliner! Lol. So close and yet so far!

[Butters Stoch]

After reading this..........
I'll stick with 550! Lol.

The majority of GTRs are only trapping 116ish and have around 450ish awhp. From a dig your dead, but on the highway, their dead.

[spenka]

The majority of GTRs are only trapping 116ish and have around 450ish awhp. From a dig your dead, but on the highway, their dead.

I like the sound of that!

[catalyst.]

Hey butters how do you personally prep engine blocks for a head gasket job? i know that in the field most use a scotch brite disc with a little bit of finesse but when you are working on your own car what do you prefer??

[Butters Stoch]

Hey butters how do you personally prep engine blocks for a head gasket job? i know that in the field most use a scotch brite disc with a little bit of finesse but when you are working on your own car what do you prefer??

I use the yellow "finger" style disc. Will not take off any material and will leave a smooth finish. Id say I've used them for hundreds of intake and head gasket jobs. Never had one fail (non BMW and BMW ) . If you need, I may have a couple spare die ginders I could lend out.