Butters project GO-FAST (LOUNGE STYLE)

[Butters Stoch]

When I stopped by this morning, the IT Department was at work trying to get the lounge back online as soon as possible.

Back in business ..
Tomorrow morning I will give a full update.

[Butters Stoch]

Whats a latest thing going on butters?

Here is a M3 axle all torn down, going out to be frozen for a while.

[pbonsalb]

You could just put it outside today. It is pretty cold in NH right now.

[Butters Stoch]

So Phil (PbonsalB) and I decided to give this cryogenic treatment a shot on our diff output flanges, and axles. Basically the theory is the parts are frozen to -300 deg. This hardens the steel. Supposedly the steel becomes 30-50% stronger. We sent out all 4 of our diff flanges and 1 axle. Today I received the items back.

One of our monthly New Hampshire turbo club meetings subjects was "what can we do to strengthen our cars for the drag strip".
After a little bit of brainstorming. This is what we decided to do.
If it fails, we will need to upgrade to the 210mm LSD unit and the $1000 DSS axles. We have both decided to purchase the DSS driveshaft as its the weakest link.

Here is the items I received back (I started to assemble the axle). Obviously the boots can not be frozen.

Id like to thank Phil for volunteering to be the guinea pig and giving this axle a shot.

[adstock]

Not saying it wont work but be prepared for a brittle and catastrophic failure.

[Butters Stoch]

Not saying it wont work but be prepared for a brittle and catastrophic failure.

I have good faith in it. I wouldn't think it would make it brittle. The process I chose to be done was to freeze and slowly reheat. We will find out this 2014 season.

[pbonsalb]

Not saying it wont work but be prepared for a brittle and catastrophic failure.

Apparently a lot of off road racers do this. Not saying it is proven to provide the strength we need, but I have not read anything that suggests we might be worse off.

[sjpgoalie]

Not saying it wont work but be prepared for a brittle and catastrophic failure.

People cryogen cranks, rods, etc mang. Heat makes metal brittle. It speeds up the aging process, breaks it down faster, etc.

As long as they're not doing launches WHILE the axles are frozen...they're only going to be stronger. I think they contract while frozen a lot more than they expand during thawing, which will have packed steel (I figure they're steel) atoms closer together, without actually changing their properties when they return to room temperatures.

You're not breaking molecules or atoms down with cold temps. You're pulling steel molecules together, which strengthens the bonds between them. Molecules form via - and + particle bonds between atoms. When you take a positive and a negative pole, the closer you put the the poles to each other, the stronger the bonds. Like magnets.

[Butters Stoch]

Axle is almost done, spent some time on it last night.
Inner joint is assembled. Im using a special CV grease that I will not disclose.

[sjpgoalie]

Nice!

[adstock]

Were they tempered afterwards? If there was any austenite present in the steel, which is likely, the martensitic transformation that occurred during the cryogenic treatment will cause brittleness and distortions in the material. The process is used on crankshafts as it increases the hardness and wear resistance of the material by precipitating eta-carbides but should be done before final machining.

edit: It's cool you guys are experimenting, I just want to make sure you guys understand consequences and are prepared for the worst. Some hard launches at the dragstrip with some r-comps would be good to test its toughness..

[pbonsalb]

I made sure Butters understood the consequences before we attempted to do a martensitic transformation on the austenite in order to precipitate eta-carbides. He was frightened at first, though. We will test these parts at the dragstrip this spring. We already have the towing company numbers in our phones, so we are prepared for the worst.

[Butters Stoch]

Were they tempered afterwards? If there was any austenite present in the steel, which is likely, the martensitic transformation that occurred during the cryogenic treatment will cause brittleness and distortions in the material. The process is used on crankshafts as it increases the hardness and wear resistance of the material by precipitating eta-carbides but should be done before final machining.

edit: It's cool you guys are experimenting, I just want to make sure you guys understand consequences and are prepared for the worst. Some hard launches at the dragstrip with some r-comps would be good to test its toughness..

I had some R compounds (nitto). They were ok when I was supercharged. But didn't do so well at the track being turbo. Spun every gear with them. So Phil and I will put these parts to the test with our Mickey Thompsons .

[spenka]

Please be sure to let me know when and where for these test. I would like to see the results!

[sjpgoalie]

Please be sure to let me know when and where for these test. I would like to see the results!

Butters car is an animal.

I have to look into cryogening more. Could have a trick or two up my sleeve if I could cryogen what I'm thinking of.

The austentite is a good point. I didn't even consider that.

[Butters Stoch]

1 cryogenic treated axle. This was NOT easy. I now see why they say the outer joint is not to be removed. Inner joint rebuild, no problem.

[Butters Stoch]

Subframe prepped to get bolted back up.
Powerflex race subframe bushings, and AKG differential bushings .
Also I drilled out the AKG front diff bushing to 1/2 inch. Im going to order a hardened 1/2 shoulder bolt. I put a micrometer to the bushing and the shoulder length will be 50mm .

Next up im going to tear apart my diff. Clean it all up and upgrade it to a 40% lockup.

[papiichulo]

People have been getting 1980s Saab 900 gearboxes cryotreated forever.
If anything what's going to happen is the tensile strength will increase.

[Butters Stoch]

People have been getting 1980s Saab 900 gearboxes cryotreated forever.
If anything what's going to happen is the tensile strength will increase.

Im pretty confident they will be stronger. Now I need to send out 3 more to have treated.

[papiichulo]

I think they will be

[pbonsalb]

We will test them this spring. Butters has a new boost controller so he won't even have to get out of the car to turn it up to 24 psi.

[Butters Stoch]

We will test them this spring. Butters has a new boost controller so he won't even have to get out of the car to turn it up to 24 psi.

Yup. Very excited about that.

[Butters Stoch]

Today, this 3.23 diff is coming apart.
Worn clutches and spacers will be tossed, and parts will be ordered tomorrow to make this a 40% lockup diff.

[Butters Stoch]

Look closely, what's wrong with this

[papiichulo]

Looks like you're missing a few bolts there, huh?