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Thread: sedan vs. touring/wagon compatability

  1. #1
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    sedan vs. touring/wagon compatability

    I'm about to take the plunge into 5 door ownership. I'm very well versed in BMW's already, but this chassis is a first for me. As I'm looking at taking on this new project cross chassis compatibility is big on my mind. I'm interested to know what fits a sedan only and what only fits a wagon?

    For instance if I didn't care about the flip forward seat, can I put M3 seats in a wagon?

    What lights are sedan, coupe and touring specific?

    Will the outside tail lights from a coupe fit a wagon (m3 led tails specifically)?

    Are the intakes and exhausts the same between sedan and touring?

    Is the suspension the same between all of the e46's? I'm thinking coil overs, but want to make sure that they are not wagon specific.

    Could this turn into a sticky? One that could be added as we go? I feel this chassis in touring form is only going to get more popular as the years go.


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by smonkbmw View Post
    For instance if I didn't care about the flip forward seat, can I put M3 seats in a wagon?

    What lights are sedan, coupe and touring specific?

    Will the outside tail lights from a coupe fit a wagon (m3 led tails specifically)?

    Are the intakes and exhausts the same between sedan and touring?

    Is the suspension the same between all of the e46's? I'm thinking coil overs, but want to make sure that they are not wagon specific.
    Yes.
    The coupe has different everthing than sedan/wagon.
    If you're talking only the bulb (replacement) itself, probably.
    Yes.
    No. Especially if the wagon is awd.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by smonkbmw View Post
    I'm about to take the plunge into 5 door ownership. I'm very well versed in BMW's already, but this chassis is a first for me. As I'm looking at taking on this new project cross chassis compatibility is big on my mind. I'm interested to know what fits a sedan only and what only fits a wagon?

    For instance if I didn't care about the flip forward seat, can I put M3 seats in a wagon?

    What lights are sedan, coupe and touring specific?

    Will the outside tail lights from a coupe fit a wagon (m3 led tails specifically)?

    Are the intakes and exhausts the same between sedan and touring?

    Is the suspension the same between all of the e46's? I'm thinking coil overs, but want to make sure that they are not wagon specific.

    Could this turn into a sticky? One that could be added as we go? I feel this chassis in touring form is only going to get more popular as the years go.
    Sedan and wagon are one in the same except for the obvious rear.

    M3 front seats will fit in a wagon.

    Only lights touring specific (from the sedan) are the rear tailights and third brakelight. You can get LED tailights that are aftermarket shipped from the UK. Umnitza has some, but they are not my cup of tea and are different from the ones I like. The OEM clear LED third brakelight is available using the correct PN. I have ordered one before and it took a week to arrive.

    Intakes, exhausts, and suspensions are the same for RWD sedans and tourings; although some aftermarket manufacturers have different spring rates specific for the touring (as well as BMWs specific rates for the weight of the cars).

    Rear bumper is touring specific also, so you need to order or find the Mtech touring rear bumper (which are available) if you want a sleeker look. Front bumper is the same as sedans, as are the sideskirts (although I need to check on that one).

    There are not many touring/wagon owners on here. I am here and there are a handful of others, but that handful is full of a lot of knowledge.

    Join us. I missed my 03 touring so much I went out and found another one for daily driving duty.
    My first was a TiAG/Black with sport, premium, auto, xenons, PDC, HK sound, and cold weather package. It was modded with Yakima roof rack, H&R PCS coilovers, BMW Rough Road Kit, RE RSMs, OEM M3 Motorsport STB, H&R swaybars, and OEM Clear lights.

    My current is an 03 Oxford Green Metallic II/Beige with sport, premium, auto, xenons, heated seats, and HK sound. Only mods are H&R swaybars, for now.
    Last edited by SexualChocolate; 02-11-2013 at 07:14 PM.

  4. #4
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    I have a 2002 sport touring I'm trying to see if the M3 suspension will fit.
    2002 E46 325it

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    For instance if I didn't care about the flip forward seat, can I put M3 seats in a wagon?

    front seats only, back seats are completely different

    What lights are sedan, coupe and touring specific?

    fronts are the same as sedan, rear are totally different and wagon specific

    Will the outside tail lights from a coupe fit a wagon (m3 led tails specifically)?

    nope

    Are the intakes and exhausts the same between sedan and touring?

    yes, the undercarriage and engine is 100% identical

    Is the suspension the same between all of the e46's? I'm thinking coil overs, but want to make sure that they are not wagon specific.

    yes at its core its the same, not sure if spring rates were different for the wagons.
    Last edited by legoman67; 12-23-2013 at 03:36 AM.
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    Ex's: 1984 325e, 1988 325IX, 1992 525I, 1995 540i/6, 2002 330i, 2005 330xi, 1992 850i, 2003 330i #1, 2003 330i #2, 2002 330ci, 2004 330ci, 2007 328CI, 2007 335i, 2001 M3, 2006 M5 6 speed

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    I'm also interested in a touring as a project car. Ideally I'd like a manual gearbox, RWD sport.

    My son and I will look for a wrecked/beater M3 and do an engine and transmission swap but keep the Touring as bone stock and "sleeper" as possible.

    What would be a good platform to start with? A 323, 325 or a 330 - did they make a 330 touring?

    What is a decent price for a clean, sport, RWD, manual gearbox touring?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 540iguyy View Post
    ...
    What would be a good platform to start with? A 323, 325 or a 330 - did they make a 330 touring?

    What is a decent price for a clean, sport, RWD, manual gearbox touring?
    323i and 325i only. You're looking for the rarest 3-series (if you Google for "unicorn BMW wagon" you may find a couple threads from people looking for the same.) BMW imported fewer than 3,000 3-series wagons per year; more than 1/2 were AWD, 80% of all wagons were autos. Virtually all the MT ones were special-ordered, driven until they died by the original owners. Gonna be a long search; be prepared to travel.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydr View Post
    323i and 325i only. You're looking for the rarest 3-series (if you Google for "unicorn BMW wagon" you may find a couple threads from people looking for the same.) BMW imported fewer than 3,000 3-series wagons per year; more than 1/2 were AWD, 80% of all wagons were autos. Virtually all the MT ones were special-ordered, driven until they died by the original owners. Gonna be a long search; be prepared to travel.
    I am fine putting it on a truck or flying out to drive back. I'm already responsible for the death of one. About two years ago I purchased one in Galveston, TX. Put it on a truck and had it shipped back East. The driver went under a bridge that was too low and sliced the roof straight off the car. Total loss.

    Good news is I don't mind if it's high miles and a little "used" since I'll be freshening up the car with a different engine and better suspension.

  9. #9
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    We have a 2000 323iT, sport package, 5-speed. Love it.

    It would be fun to do coilovers and stuff like that, but frankly, I've left it pretty much bone stock, with the exception of some ACS replicant wheels that came with it when we bought it 10 years ago or so. My e36 gets all the mod-love.

    If you're planning an engine/tranny swap then you could use an slushbox car as a donor.

    Keep it subtle. Max sleeper potential.
    Avus 1998 328is, No. 191 STX
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    SHAZAM, GOMER, LOOK AHEAD.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by D. Hitchcock View Post
    We have a 2000 323iT, sport package, 5-speed. Love it.

    It would be fun to do coilovers and stuff like that, but frankly, I've left it pretty much bone stock, with the exception of some ACS replicant wheels that came with it when we bought it 10 years ago or so. My e36 gets all the mod-love.

    If you're planning an engine/tranny swap then you could use an slushbox car as a donor.

    Keep it subtle. Max sleeper potential.
    My concern is the sport package which I do not believe was available on the automatics?? (Would love clarification)

    I would want every single aspect of the car to look 100% bone stock... With the exception of possibly the shift knob, steering wheel and the the plastic under the hood. Outside that you would never know.

  11. #11
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    Sport seats and steering wheel would be the only major components of the sport package remaining, if you swapped the suspension for coils.

    EDIT: Are the diff ratios the same for a MT or slushbox? That could be an important consideration. Our wagon has a pretty short diff. With more power, etc., you'll probably want to change that.
    Last edited by D. Hitchcock; 12-26-2013 at 11:23 AM.
    Avus 1998 328is, No. 191 STX
    Orientblau 2000 323i Touring
    Malaga 1976 2002

    SHAZAM, GOMER, LOOK AHEAD.

  12. #12
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    I would assume id use stock m3 suspension vs coils, this would be somewhat of a dd/winter garage queen.

    If I use as much stock m3 parts as I can I assume my biggest expense will be rebuilding the engine and doing the custom exhaust work?

  13. #13
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    There are about 4-5 on eBay now. Two are a manual 5 speed.
    The silver one went off last night for $4700.00. It seemed like a really clean car. I can't believe that's all it sold for.
    If I would have sold my E38, I would have bid on it myself.
    Last edited by trimgod666; 12-30-2013 at 06:57 AM.
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    ^^^ scratch that. The guy took it off eBay with a little over two minutes left.

    That's dirty!
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  15. #15
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    He only took it off because $4700 was the winning bid.

    Very dirty.

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    Not true.

    My cousin drove to Philly and bought it the next day. After the eBay bid was "won" by someone else???

    Looks like he puts cars up for "no reserve" and pulls them last minute if he doesn't get what he is expecting. Maybe he puts no reserve to encourage a bidding war???

    Just seems weird. Super clean car though. I can't wait to see it.
    current:
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    2002 Ford focus drk blue

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by trimgod666 View Post
    Not true.

    My cousin drove to Philly and bought it the next day. After the eBay bid was "won" by someone else???

    Looks like he puts cars up for "no reserve" and pulls them last minute if he doesn't get what he is expecting. Maybe he puts no reserve to encourage a bidding war???

    Just seems weird. Super clean car though. I can't wait to see it.
    I've been told a few times now that with what I want to do I may be better off getting an automatic Touring vs. look for the "holy grail" car and ruin one/take it off the market.

    Is there much or any difference between a RWD automatic vs a standard?

  18. #18
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    I found a white 2WD M/T '04 wagon. I am not sure what the PO did to it, but I notice that it is about 3/4" lower than my wife's 330i and it has really nice brakes with slotted rotors and braided lines.
    Mine has a lot of miles and consumes oil. The top end is scattered all over my garage right now getting new VANOS O-rings and new valve stem seals over the holiday.

    I have found no parts differences with the wagon other than the tail end. The rear wiper is such a PITA that I pulled the fuse to it. It somehow tries to interface with the rain sensor in the windshield and it does not do it properly.

    I dream of putting a 330 engine in it coupled with my 5-speed, but that is not as easy as you might think. The engine computer has to mate with the engine/transmission and the engine computer talks to the lighting control so you may need to bring along the lighting control for factory HID headlights, and the factory HID lights, along from the other car.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manolito View Post
    I found a white 2WD M/T '04 wagon. I am not sure what the PO did to it, but I notice that it is about 3/4" lower than my wife's 330i and it has really nice brakes with slotted rotors and braided lines.
    Mine has a lot of miles and consumes oil. The top end is scattered all over my garage right now getting new VANOS O-rings and new valve stem seals over the holiday.

    I have found no parts differences with the wagon other than the tail end. The rear wiper is such a PITA that I pulled the fuse to it. It somehow tries to interface with the rain sensor in the windshield and it does not do it properly.

    I dream of putting a 330 engine in it coupled with my 5-speed, but that is not as easy as you might think. The engine computer has to mate with the engine/transmission and the engine computer talks to the lighting control so you may need to bring along the lighting control for factory HID headlights, and the factory HID lights, along from the other car.
    Interesting... Thank you for the feedback. I really hate to be a checkbook owner but I think for this project I may be a little over my head therefore I'd hire a shop to do the work. I'd look to purchase an M3 as well as a 325iT and move everything possible over from the M3 while keeping the Touring looking as bone stock and non-M as possible.

    I'm used to 2002's, e21's and e30's for swaps and modding around. These newer fancy computer cars are probably a little much for me. Even the little odds & ends on my e36 can get overwhelming when it comes to the computer/electrical. Does an e46 M3 have three pedals even with the flappy paddle shifters?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 540iguyy View Post
    ...I'm used to 2002's, e21's and e30's for swaps and modding around. These newer fancy computer cars are probably a little much for me. Even the little odds & ends on my e36 can get overwhelming when it comes to the computer/electrical. Does an e46 M3 have three pedals even with the flappy paddle shifters?
    That's the exact reason that most people try to dissuade people from doing engine swaps in E46 and newer cars. It can be done but you need expert help with the ECU/TCM and other modules.

    The E46 M3 with SMG does not have a clutch pedal. They're essentially a manual with hydraulic pump and solenoid control, and work best when driven in manual mode. The newer DCT transmissions (E9x M3 & 335is) work more smoothly when under automatic control (but not as smooth as torque converter/auto).

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydr View Post
    That's the exact reason that most people try to dissuade people from doing engine swaps in E46 and newer cars. It can be done but you need expert help with the ECU/TCM and other modules.

    The E46 M3 with SMG does not have a clutch pedal. They're essentially a manual with hydraulic pump and solenoid control, and work best when driven in manual mode. The newer DCT transmissions (E9x M3 & 335is) work more smoothly when under automatic control (but not as smooth as torque converter/auto).
    So then, what is the best way to go? A straight up six speed manual gearbox or the SMG or DCT option?

    The last thing that I would want to do is spend the money and effort putting M parts into a touring and then regret the gearbox choice.

    I love having three pedals on my e36 and I love how the Mercedes is easy and thoughtless to drive.

    With the touring, I would want to blend the best of both worlds. So what is the best choice to build a "drover's car"??

  22. #22
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    6 speed manual. the SMG's are prone to failure and cost huge amounts of money to fix. it would also be a nightmare to retrofit.
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  23. #23
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    hi, my e46 325i 2005 is drivimg me crazy,i started it today and the engine start to shake and run hardly and the check engine lamp is on, i step little on gas it is not functioning normaly its making sound like " tefffftefffteffff" waited it to get warm and turn it off and on again, check engine lamp is gone and the engine is runing normaly.any body has answeres?i have changed plugs amd coils a week ago due to same reason but that didint help.please help me and im waiting ur reply thankfully

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by legoman67 View Post
    6 speed manual. the SMG's are prone to failure and cost huge amounts of money to fix. it would also be a nightmare to retrofit.
    Any other comments on this? I think this is what I want but want to make 100% sure.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 540iguyy View Post
    Any other comments on this? I think this is what I want but want to make 100% sure.
    Manual is definitely the way to go. Be sure to get the M3's transmission if you're using an M3 engine - it's different than the non-M. (I believe the non-M transmission will fit but it's not as beefy.)

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