Tip for VANOS rattle...?

[hankthetank94]

Not that I would take anything on YouTube to heart, but I was viewing an S62 clip that had the typical VANOS rattle that we all know. About half way down in the comments section a guy wrote: "Im guessing 99-00? Bad VANOS years.. Try using an oil system cleaner than a little thicker oil. I promise it will quiet it. Had the same issue on my E39."

Can anyone back this up? I currently have an '01 540i with 87k on her and there is a real quiet (not bad at all) vanos rattle evident. I would like to quiet it down and this guys claims he knows what does it.

Anyone back this up?

TIA

EDIT: And if what he says holds truth, then what type of oil should I use and additive cleaner?

[Spirit Force]

The seals wear down so there isin't any additive than will fix it. Ticker oils might make it less noticeable, but it won't fix it. So get beisan systems vanos kit and start the teardown.

[topaz540i]

The s62 vanos is completely different.
There really isnt anything to make it go away.

[edjack]

Try a heavier oil. Can't hurt, despite what others say. In fact, an expat living in Belgium had the opportunity to talk the a BMW engine designer, he said that the VANOS assembly is immune to oil weight; it has nothing to do with the operation.

This same expat reports that most BMW enthusiasts with whom he's spoken run 20W50 year round in northern Europe.

I run 20W50, and the engine is as quiet as an electric motor, albeit sans VANOS.

[djb2]

The seals wear down so there isin't any additive than will fix it. Ticker oils might make it less noticeable, but it won't fix it. So get beisan systems vanos kit and start the teardown.

The seals don't wear down. The "energizer" o-ring hardens.

A "rubber energized seal" is a common configuration. The VANOS seal has a PTFE (Teflon-like) outer ring, with an "energizer" inner o-ring that provides the spring pressure to keep the outer ring pressed against the cylinder, while simultaneously sealing against oil going under the ring.

Over time the inner o-ring hardens. Most turn into plastic-like square cross section ring with no elasticity, but bad ones break (really, shatter) on removal. This allows oil to bypass the outer seal, both over and under.

[Spirit Force]

Try a heavier oil. Can't hurt, despite what others say. In fact, an expat living in Belgium had the opportunity to talk the a BMW engine designer, he said that the VANOS assembly is immune to oil weight; it has nothing to do with the operation.

This same expat reports that most BMW enthusiasts with whom he's spoken run 20W50 year round in northern Europe.

I run 20W50, and the engine is as quiet as an electric motor, albeit sans VANOS.

By northern Europe you mean what? Belgium? I live in northern Europe I haven't heard anyone running 20w50 during winter.. That is way too thick to be used during winter in most parts of northern Europe.

The seals don't wear down. The "energizer" o-ring hardens.

A "rubber energized seal" is a common configuration. The VANOS seal has a PTFE (Teflon-like) outer ring, with an "energizer" inner o-ring that provides the spring pressure to keep the outer ring pressed against the cylinder, while simultaneously sealing against oil going under the ring.

Over time the inner o-ring hardens. Most turn into plastic-like square cross section ring with no elasticity, but bad ones break (really, shatter) on removal. This allows oil to bypass the outer seal, both over and under.

Well Beisan Systems says it wears:

"The vanos plastic housing inner perimeter rod seal is made of a Teflon ring and backing O-ring. The Teflon ring is made from pigment modified (turquoise) Teflon. This slight variation on virgin Teflon is slightly more resistant to wear and deformation than virgin Teflon. But it is still is very susceptible to wear and deformation. The Teflon ring has been found to lose significant material due to wear. This loss of material is causing the Teflon ring to lose its functional characteristics and thus cause the vanos to fail."

[edjack]

It was in Belgium. I only report what he told me a few years ago, when he was the only one siding with me on another forum, and he offered this anecdote. Remember, the guys he hung out with were real BMW gearheads.

I always thought that Finland was part of Scandinavia.

I would agree; 20W50 is not good for temps below 0 deg C.

[Justin517]

I run German Castrol which is a 0w30 oil that cranks good at cold temps and is actually pretty close to a 40 weight when hot.

My car has a little vanos noise but its barely noticeable, it's loudest after beating on it and
the oil is very hot. My noisy dual mass flywheel actually seems to make more noise than my vanos at 128k

[Spirit Force]

It was in Belgium. I only report what he told me a few years ago, when he was the only one siding with me on another forum, and he offered this anecdote. Remember, the guys he hung out with were real BMW gearheads.

I always thought that Finland was part of Scandinavia.

I would agree; 20W50 is not good for temps below 0 deg C.

Ohh you meant Belgium. That isin't part of Northern Europe . It's part of Western Europe . Finland is part of Northern Europe and so is Scandinavia. So in Belgium you actually can use 20W50 during winter, but not in Northern Europe.

[bartelbe]

The seals don't wear down. The "energizer" o-ring hardens.

A "rubber energized seal" is a common configuration. The VANOS seal has a PTFE (Teflon-like) outer ring, with an "energizer" inner o-ring that provides the spring pressure to keep the outer ring pressed against the cylinder, while simultaneously sealing against oil going under the ring.

Over time the inner o-ring hardens. Most turn into plastic-like square cross section ring with no elasticity, but bad ones break (really, shatter) on removal. This allows oil to bypass the outer seal, both over and under.

There are two problems with the vanos unit one is the seals failing which causes more performance issues, the other is the piston axial bearing play which is wear the 'rattle' comes from (http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm ) Rather then damge your engine by running in correct engine oil for the climate temps were you live order the seal kit and the rattle kit and be done with it.

[E0339]

Try a heavier oil. Can't hurt, despite what others say. In fact, an expat living in Belgium had the opportunity to talk the a BMW engine designer, he said that the VANOS assembly is immune to oil weight; it has nothing to do with the operation.

This same expat reports that most BMW enthusiasts with whom he's spoken run 20W50 year round in northern Europe.

I run 20W50, and the engine is as quiet as an electric motor, albeit sans VANOS.

I ran into this thread while researching what oil to use to help with engine clicking noises. So many people have mentioned the 20W50! I have to ask - If you're still around - What exact 20W50 do those BMW enthusiasts run? How about you?

[JimLev]

Welcome to the forum GE.
Edjack's car doesn't have a vanos. '99 model year was the first year for them in the 540's.
Some of the other posts here are talking about the M5 and i6 engines which has a completely different vanos.
The o-rings in the 540 vanos do go bad, I've replaced the o-rings a number of them. Pretty easy to tell when they are bad.
1) If you can turn the center section with 2 or 4 fingers the o-ring need replacing.
2) When you tip a vanos and the center section falls out on it's own the o-rings are way beyond shot.
3) If you have more than 100K on yours they should be replaced, which will require the engine to be re-timed.

Oil doesn't really matter that much once it get hot. I'm using 0w-40 Mobil 1.

[edjack]

I ran into this thread while researching what oil to use to help with engine clicking noises. So many people have mentioned the 20W50! I have to ask - If you're still around - What exact 20W50 do those BMW enthusiasts run? How about you?

I run Castrol GTX 20W50. My owner's manual specifies 15W40 for temps between 18-80+ deg F. It also mentions "Special oils" down to -20. I assume this means synthetic.

The Castrol is a "light" 50, according to charts I've consulted.

[E0339]

Welcome to the forum GE.
Edjack's car doesn't have a vanos. '99 model year was the first year for them in the 540's.
Some of the other posts here are talking about the M5 and i6 engines which has a completely different vanos.
The o-rings in the 540 vanos do go bad, I've replaced the o-rings a number of them. Pretty easy to tell when they are bad.
1) If you can turn the center section with 2 or 4 fingers the o-ring need replacing.
2) When you tip a vanos and the center section falls out on it's own the o-rings are way beyond shot.
3) If you have more than 100K on yours they should be replaced, which will require the engine to be re-timed.

Oil doesn't really matter that much once it get hot. I'm using 0w-40 Mobil 1.

Hey Jim. Thank you for the welcome, and thanks for mentioning the difference between our cars. I missed that. Thank you for sharing what oil you use, brand and numbers! Ultimately, I am doing this to help oil leaks, and lifter ticks. My Vanos seems fine for now, but will need an o-ring refresh at a later date. I was under the impression that xW-30 and xW-40 did have a difference when the engine is oil is hot (the -40 is thicker). Maybe I misunderstood something. Is there a difference in thickness once the oil gets hot? Is there a reason you chose 0W-40, over 5W-40, or otherwise? Thanks!

[E0339]

I run Castrol GTX 20W50. My owner's manual specifies 15W40 for temps between 18-80+ deg F. It also mentions "Special oils" down to -20. I assume this means synthetic.

The Castrol is a "light" 50, according to charts I've consulted.

Thank you for sharing the oil you use, and the brand! Is it the Castrol GTX High Mileage 20W-50 Synthetic, specifically? Which charts were those, I'd love to see them! Thanks again for the reply on the old thread