BFG Rival Launch Event

[BJO]

I corded one set of R-S3s and they did wear faster on the outside, more in the front than back. Assumed it was not having enough front camber, but maybe it's the sidewalls? Flipped and rotated them at the end to try to even out the wear.

I think its the sidewalls. I have had this happen to RS3's on an e36m3 with over -3.5deg and an e46m3 with -3deg.

[nondescript]

I corded one set of R-S3s and they did wear faster on the outside, more in the front than back. Assumed it was not having enough front camber, but maybe it's the sidewalls? Flipped and rotated them at the end to try to even out the wear.

Might be a combination of things, but yes, for the construction of that tire, similar to the construction of say a hosier a6, you do NOT have enough front camber.

[LivesNearCostco]

I started those tires with -1.3° front camber with stock springs and finished with -3° front (-1.9° rear) camber on 430 lb/in springs, but still stock sways. For my next HPDE/autoX tires, I can try Star Specs, stiffer front bar, higher spring rate, or Ground Control's hybrid camber plates to get to -3.5° to -4° camber. Or just flip the tires earlier...

Edit: Sig photo is with stock springs, stock camber, stock 18" wheels and Bridgestone RE-760 tires (and OEM roof rack base, for a higher center of gravity).

[justint5387]

Yeah, your spring rate, camber, and bar combination is not great for the RS3. Probably need to be much stiffer

[z3papa]

Ordered a set. I have a set of RS3's and Pilot Super Sports each with about 1/2 wear for a car which is not being driven so I figured I can be patient for them to arrive.

[SUVETR]

I corded one set of R-S3s and they did wear faster on the outside, more in the front than back. Assumed it was not having enough front camber, but maybe it's the sidewalls? Flipped and rotated them at the end to try to even out the wear.

FWIW, my experience is that you simply can't avoid this with the rs3. They do like more camber than the z1. But even >4 deg camber they will show nice tire temps across the face but still wear at a hot spot on the shoulder. The carcass just doesn't hold shape well enough. Maybe some of it is because the 255 is still a little pinched on an STX-legal 9" rim.

But it also never seemed to matter much. I never flipped them and never corded a set before they turned rock hard. My first set had something like 170 runs plus two track days. But subsequent sets have not worn that well and I suspect Hankook may have changed their compound...

Neal

[HaraM3]

Has anyone run these in anger yet? Any recommendations on tire pressures? I realize this can be car/driver specific, but looking for a baseline.

We ran them on one of our E30s at the ChumpCar race at Laguna Seca on Sunday (Easter) - 205/50/15. Everyone found them to be "greasy" and not to feel as good as the Star Specs we ran last year. Lap times were comparable to the Star Specs too. To be fair, they did not get a great scrub before the race, which is something I read they need. Thanks for any info.

[RJ's325ITS]

I can not speak from an enduro point of view, but the hot running pressures should not be over 37psi; if you go over indeed they will overheat quicker, feel grease but still offer high amounts of grip.... The guy thing about this tire is that in a way behaves as a comp tire where you can under drive it cooling them down and you'll be able to get them back where you need to.

[HaraM3]

Thanks for the info. We'll have to keep playing with them at Road America, but I was trying to keep them at about 36psi hot before. I really think the failure to get a good scrub on them may be part of the problem.

[SUVETR]

Everyone found them to be "greasy" and not to feel as good as the Star Specs we ran last year. Lap times were comparable to the Star Specs too. To be fair, they did not get a great scrub before the race, which is something I read they need. Thanks for any info.

Wow, that's really surprising to hear. My tires just arrived yesterday, along with a big-a$$ snow storm. But I'm also much more of an autocrosser than a track guy so I probably won't get on a "real" track with the BFGs until I do some track days later in the year.

It definitely would be interesting to hear what you discover as you play with scrubbing the tires and different tire pressures.

A couple of additional thoughts to ponder, and let us know what you think...

I noticed two things when I drove them at the launch event. First, the BFG does feel crisp at initial turn-in, but has a WIDE range for more-or-less peak grip. They are also EXTREMELY forgiving if you go over the limit, with just a nice smooth transition into understeer. They also tended to handle a fairly large slip angle with grace, though I didn't think they "liked" it.

On the flip side, the Dunlops are extremely crisp. You know exactly where the limit is, because when you go over it, things go pear-shaped quickly.

Bottom line: when you think about it, sometimes the difference between "greasy" and "forgiving" can be kinda hard to distinguish. I never thought the tire was "greasy", but I do remember thinking it might take a little while to figure out where the absolute perfect sweet-spot is, because it was "pretty darn good" over such a huge range, and absorbed over-driving VERY well.

Obviously I wasn't in the car with you, so I'm totally speculating here. But if I try to put myself into your shoes, I wonder if maybe you were perhaps over-driving them a little. If you were looking for that Dunlop-style peak, it never really happens on the BFG. If you go past the peak on the BFG, they just start to add slip angle rather than fall off drastically...which could certainly translate into describing it as "greasy".

So...Maybe try dialing back the slip angle just |<-- this much -->| and see if the lap times improve?

Neal

[tbert122]

Well the 255/40/17 just came out last week with the 245/40/17 a month behind them. Who has already ordered a set? Can't wait to start hearing people impressions! When I attended the launch event in New Orleans I had no idea what a good impression the Rival would leave with me. They are the most forgiving tire I have driven on while still offering performance levels of a Dunlop SS if not more.

[RJ's325ITS]

Well the 255/40/17 just came out last week with the 245/40/17 a month behind them. Who has already ordered a set? Can't wait to start hearing people impressions! When I attended the launch event in New Orleans I had no idea what a good impression the Rival would leave with me. They are the most forgiving tire I have driven on while still offering performance levels of a Dunlop SS if not more.

Video of said event, enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qx9...layer_embedded

[Herb]

My big question is, is it $200 better per set (255/40/17) than the RS3? Sure it might very well be better, but is it that much better. I am on the fence about the Rival (+$200 over RS3) and the new ZII (+$100 over RS3) as my replacement tires, I do get to the track and would like to start auto-x'ing again. I still have some time left on the RS3's, so I have time to wait and see.

[Jim@tirerack]

I would say you are going to have to answer if it is worth the 200.00 more for the set. I will say that in looking at the tires after testing the BFG will last longer so it will make up for some of the price difference.
If I can help let me know.

[nondescript]

If I can help let me know.

Rain / Wet conditions testing... StarSpec (full tread) vs DS2 vs Rival vs Toyo cheater gumby tire, etc.

[Jim@tirerack]

We will be doing a full wet and dry test against the ZII, RE11A and the Neova in May sometime.

[chris1866]

We will be doing a full wet and dry test against the ZII, RE11A and the Neova in May sometime.

Can't wait to see the results of this one. Should be perfect timing for me

[ButtDyno]

Sounds good to me, what about Dunlop, will they ever step it up and support us racers?

IMHO, they supported us by making a tire that works great dry and wet and in a wide temperature range that gives 250-ish pretty good runs. I expect the same from the ZII.

[gradon]

The Z1s I have currently will last this season and I definitely would buy another set. As of now, it's Z2s for me unless the evidence this season sways me to the BFGs.

[SunzOut]

Looks like we may have a good comparison on Sunday at the first SCCA Chicago Event. Clark (Z3Papa) has a couple of new sets of Rival's going up against two cars on Z2's

[Jim@tirerack]

We will also be doing a test in May sometime head to head in wet and dry.

[z3papa]

That assumes all cars are equal but yeah I'm looking forward to it. Still need to do my Vanos..

[SunzOut]

That assumes all cars are equal but yeah I'm looking forward to it. Still need to do my Vanos..

Just got to talk Donnie and JP into some fun runs at the end of the day and swap wheels

[mrazny]

Just got to talk Donnie and JP into some fun runs at the end of the day and swap wheels

good luck!

I don't think you'd succeed on pretty much any day, let alone one where we're pushing the 170 limit.

[SunzOut]

Well the Dunlop's came out ahead on Sunday but not the best environment for a comparison to the BFG's , Clark had a radiator hose come of on run 2 or 3 and although they got all their runs in, it took a couple of runs to clean up the tires and I'm sure it was a little bit of a distraction!!

The delay from that incident and another competitor that blew an engine meant only 2 runs in the afternoon so not much time to get dialed in.

Really liked the Z2's overall grip and turn in response.