95 525i manual tranny fluid type?

[m735is]

Recently purchased this car. I was under it yesterday and could not find a sticker on the tranny for the fluid type. It should be the 250 Getrag, correct? What type fluid should go in it?
Second part- what are alternatives, if any, to the above fluid?

[cochise325]

My 1995 525i with Getrag 5 speed manual used atuomatic transmission fluid. If you can confirm your transmission, I would be happy to look up the recommended fluid in the Bentley manual for you.

[91e34M5]

You're going to get many opinions, but I use Redline MTL. It looks just like auto transmission fluid and is pretty much universal for any manual transmission.

[5mall5nail5]

I do not recommend Redline MTL in that.

Get yourself some Redline D4

[m735is]

Am I confused about the stickers? Would a Getrag come with different stickers indicating what fluid to use? Or is the sticker color (fluid type) dependant on the transmission?
Forgot to mention, I will be driving this all year, so I will need a hot and cold weather compatable fluid. If it takes ATF normally, I'll probably go with Redline D4.

I knew I would get different answers on the fluid type, just from the searching I did before I posted this question.

Also, I looked on Ebay for pics of the two types of trannies to visually identify them. Does the ZF say ZF anywhere? I saw one pic and Getrag was clearly visible. I wasn't really looking for that when I was looking for the sticker that should be on it.

[5mall5nail5]

ZF says ZF on it.

Your car is a '95, it does not have a ZF. Either case, use Redline D4 ATF.

[BoldUlysses]

I do not recommend Redline MTL in that.

Get yourself some Redline D4

Explain thyself.

I've been using Red Line MTL for the past 2.5 years; no complaints.

[cochise325]

Am I confused about the stickers? Would a Getrag come with different stickers indicating what fluid to use? Or is the sticker color (fluid type) dependant on the transmission?
Forgot to mention, I will be driving this all year, so I will need a hot and cold weather compatable fluid. If it takes ATF normally, I'll probably go with Redline D4.

I knew I would get different answers on the fluid type, just from the searching I did before I posted this question.

Also, I looked on Ebay for pics of the two types of trannies to visually identify them. Does the ZF say ZF anywhere? I saw one pic and Getrag was clearly visible. I wasn't really looking for that when I was looking for the sticker that should be on it.

On the passenger side of the gearbox, look for the markings shown in the pic........

from 7/92 on the 525i equiped with manual transmissions were all Getrag. So if yours is original to the car it is a Getrag.

Here is what the Bentley manual says about fluids: " Manual Transmissions filled with ATF use 17mm external hex drain and fill plugs...."

Also "Manual transmissions installed on E34 cars are normally filled with ATF, although alternative lubricants may be used depending on transmission type, gear noise levels, and shifting effort in cold climates."

My E34 lived in Upstate NY (Rochester) before moving to CT. I always used ATF in it and had no problems. Redline ATF is great stuff.

[5mall5nail5]

Explain thyself.

I've been using Red Line MTL for the past 2.5 years; no complaints.

Redline MTL is a 70W80 GL-4 gear oil. These transmissions call for ATF. Some, random, transmissions call for "manual transmission oil" but every single Gertrag/ZF in an E34 I've seen has an ATF sticker.

[91e34M5]

From the Redline Website - www.redlineoil.com

MTL 70W80 GL-4 Gear OilPopular for BMW, Honda and Acura, Ford Focus, late-model Mini Cooper, Land Rover/Range Rover LT77S, Dodge & Jeep NV1500, NV3500 and NV5600 truck transmissions

D4 ATFOur most versatile ATF, use where Dexron III®, Dexron II®, Mercon® and Mercon V® fluids are recommended, provides a GL-4 level of gear protection

From the Turner Motorsports Website:

Red Line MTL Manual Transmission Fluid/Oil (more info)
Red Line 70W/80W GL-4 MTL gear oil (SAE 5W30/10W30 engine oil viscosity) designed for use in BMW manual transmissions. Provides excellent protection of gears and synchronizers and its balanced slipperiness provides a perfect coefficient of friction, allowing easier shifting. The MTL can be used as a replacement for the factory MTF or MTF-LT2 used by BMW. Add MTL to older BMWs that have become tough to shift will restore shift smoothness. Many experts agree that this is best lubricant to use in BMW manual transmissions. Sold by the quart.

As stated previously, your going to get a lot of opinions. Note that Redline D4 and MTL both have the same GL-4 rating. Operating difference of the two are probably negligible.

[5mall5nail5]

There should be some clarification - I run Redline MTL in my Getrag 260. In my Getrag 250 which indicates on the box that it wants ATF, I run ATF.

Stick with whats written on the box. If its not written on the box, stick to ATF in the M50 cars. MTL is generally found in older boxes, pre-ATF requirement.

[htharkere34]

From my understanding, GM switched to D4 for these boxes because of the gear rattle that was developing. I also remember reading about an issue with the shimming on the reverse gear but I can't say for sure.

Anyway, here is what the folks at redline have to say about what oil to use.


This tag is an example of what you're looking for when climbing under your BMW to identify the transmission type.

As with the motor oil, the extended drain intervals (or lack of a recommendation to drain) on BMW automatics is a major issue for many experts and technicians in the field. Many of our customers have found improved wear characteristics and performance by swapping out BMW's longlife fluids for Red Line D4 ATF. Red Line is known for producing products that pinpoint an application, but D4 ATF meets the needs of a variety of late-model BMW needs, including many automatic and manual transmission. Independent shops often stock this product in 5-gallon pails to dispense as an upgrade for their customers.

Here's a link to the Bavarian Auto Newsletter to a few great stories on how to do this swap (navigate to the Spring 2006 and Winter 2003-2004 issues). Changing it out every 50,000 miles sounds like a good plan. Otherwise, you may find the sludge that our expert Gordon found in this 5-series oil pan. Enough said.

Manual transmissions open up a whole load of topics, but the feedback is overwhelming that our fluids help improve performance and cold operation due to stable viscosity, balanced friction (so that syncros can slow down enough to match up), and more-than-sufficient antiwear additives.

Many who pull the transmission pan on their BMW automatics find this sludge and get satisfaction out of swapping the Longlife fluid for the correct Red Line product.

While respected BMW tech expert Mike Miller (and Bavarian, as well) confidently recommends MTL for every BMW manual gearbox without complaints, Red Line follows a baseline closer to the factory recommendations. The early gearboxes (through 1983) take our MTL, a 70W80 GL-4 fluid.

From 1986 to 1992, it is a bit trickier in that there are three different transmissions identified by a label on the passenger side of the bell housing. That with a green label and a 17mm hex drain plug uses MT-90, a red label and 17mm plug uses D4 ATF, and that with no label and a 15mm drain plug uses MTL.

From 1993 on, we recommend D4 ATF (yes, ATF in a manual transmission). The only late-model exception is the 2006 Xi trans, which takes D6 ATF.

Whew, that's a lot to remember. For the most part, these transmissions take less than 2 quarts. The typical exceptions are the 8-series cars before 2000 (just under 2.5 quarts) and the M5's 7-speed (from 2005), which requires just less than three quarts.

http://www.redlineoil.com/news_article.aspx?id=13

[BoldUlysses]

Good info. Looks like I'll be swapping out the MTL for D4 ATF sometime in the future.

[5mall5nail5]

Yep - basically the M20 trans you have to be careful depending on what the label indicates. On everything M50 though, I run D4 ATF.

[Tward]

So this looks to be a good discussion, I have redline MTL and I'm planning to put it in my Getrag 250, and it has no stickers on the transmission on what fluid to use. But I don't plan on daily driving the car. What would be the problems that this fluid would cause.

[cochise325]

So this looks to be a good discussion, I have redline MTL and I'm planning to put it in my Getrag 250, and it has no stickers on the transmission on what fluid to use. But I don't plan on daily driving the car. What would be the problems that this fluid would cause.

The MTL fluid is thicker than the ATF fluid. The ATF is going to flow freer. Why experiment with your gearbox, when the good engineers at Getrag have already done the testing for you? Those Getrag 5 speeds last forever, which is why you see so many automatics being replaced with the available 5 speed manuals in the E34. Would be a shame to use the wrong fluid and shorten the life of the gearbox.

[cochise325]

So this looks to be a good discussion, I have redline MTL and I'm planning to put it in my Getrag 250, and it has no stickers on the transmission on what fluid to use. But I don't plan on daily driving the car. What would be the problems that this fluid would cause.

The MTL fluid is thicker than the ATF fluid. The ATF is going to flow freer. Why experiment with your gearbox, when the good engineers at Getrag have already done the testing for you? Those Getrag 5 speeds last forever, which is why you see so many automatics being replaced with the available 5 speed manuals in the E34. Would be a shame to use the wrong fluid and shorten the life of the gearbox.

[m735is]

Thanks everyone, this has cleared it up for me. D4 it is.

[5mall5nail5]

Good choice!

[91e34M5]

The 280 in my car clearly states on the tranny case to use ATF. That was what was in the trans when I bought it and what was put in it after I changed the fluid shortly after I got it. The transmission shifted notchy and the synchros were slow during shifts, espcially when cold. Local indy recommended switching to MTL and after the change, the problems disappeared...even in cold weather...so the freer flowing ATF logic doesn't necessarily apply. So why would I use the recommended fluid in my tranny when I'm getting a slight "crunch" everytime I shift verses a slightly different fluid that fully resolves the issue. I am not arguing that MTL should be used in every manual transmission, but sometimes your individual transmission is going to prefer one type over the other, and in my case, MTL is the preferred fluid from comparison experience, not from the manufacuturer's recommendation.

[Tward]

So guys since were on this topic, What redline fluid would you guys recommend for a Getrag 250? It doesn't have a sticker telling what it requires, but I had planned to use MTL but now you guys have me second guessing.

Plus it shows it needs 1.1 quarts, is that actually true?

[m1943]

Hello! Mine is a '95 525I, but I replaced the granny bout 10 years ago, and I think what I have is a ZF, that came off an M3 e36. So the seller told me. So, which fluid do I use, and can I add, or altogether use Lucas? Thanks

[ross1]

Hello! Mine is a '95 525I, but I replaced the granny bout 10 years ago, and I think what I have is a ZF, that came off an M3 e36. So the seller told me. So, which fluid do I use, and can I add, or altogether use Lucas? Thanks

Did grandpa notice?
ATF in that box, not a fan of additives

[PDXMerz]

MTL is designed specifically for gearboxes that take ATF normally. It's not normal GL4 gear oil. Not really important for OPs case but my 420G loves the redline MTL (ATF sticker on the trans).