30% drivetrain loss, seems your bhp numbers are quite optimistc...
What kind of dyno was this on?
For comp. sake, stock e46 m3's with 333 bhp dyno on average around 275whp.
Last edited by sausrigging; 02-10-2013 at 03:11 PM.
As I stated before, communicate well and often, especially when the news is not going to be pleasant.
I agree, 25% was the figure the dyno guy gave me. When searching the web I get figures of 15% to 20% loss. Might be that older mechanics suffer an increased level of loss, could be the type of dyno or the old dyno guy inflating figures.
When it is all said and done it comes down to car setup plus rwhp. It runs 241.4 rwhp at 5330rpm. It revs to 8000rpm and we are setting the rev limiter on 7250rpm. Torque is through the roof so next engine refresh I'll place a much hotter cam (something that takes the max hp to about 6500rpm) as I have oodles of torque so can sacrifice a bit with no performance loss to gain more hp (369 lb/ft at rear wheels).
Race in two weekends. Bought gauges and these will be in this week. Door cards this week as well with some luck. May leave them to post race as historic racing over here is only once per month so plenty of prep time between races.
Last edited by Shipper; 02-10-2013 at 04:55 PM.
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
Feb 22 race weekend. First racing since suspension install and triple weber install. A few issues;
1. Tires old, tired and 8 to 10 years old.
2. Inner edge runing 10 degrees (c) hotter than middle or outer tire edge so need to reduce camber a little.
3. Brakes were not touched. Fronts okay but back right locked on destroying pads per 5 lap race. Will need brake rebuild.
4. Left front hub throwing grease. No movement but will do all hubs (bearings) to full race spec.
5. Race dials in but not connected. To do.
Next track day perhaps in March, lateish. Just a day to do some testing with new tires.
Results of the weekend.
We are 5 seconds off the pole position qualifying time for the 1972 porsche 3.0 rs racers. Also 5 seconds off of the 600hp 5.7l V8 Aussie Ford Racers. The corvette in the photos we are just 1.7 seconds off. We believe that;
1. New race tires will be worth 2 seconds.
2. Brake overhall and suspension fine tune will be worth 1 second.
3. Driven tentatively due to new car, unknown handling, learning track and minimising gear changes for new engine will be worth 1 to 2 seconds.
We think we can take 4 to 5 seconds off of our current times around Wakefield in Goulburn, NSW Australia. We ran 1.13's. Pole times for the Nc and Sc races were 1.09's. We think we can get into the 1.10 to 1.08 bracket. Late March will tell. Would put us on the front grid of our relevant classes.
Here's a few photos. My wife took some Ipad vid so I'll post that when I have time, a few driveby's down the straight.
Last edited by Shipper; 02-27-2013 at 10:35 PM.
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
Damn, this is an epic car. Keep the pics coming too.
My apologies for this video. It's upside-down. My wife took the vid and used an Ipad. So, the vid always looks the right way up as the Ipad is self orientating. But, it has saved upside down. I can convert it using a number of converters so I can see it the right way up. Post it and it flicks back upside down again.
Still, you can see the car race, hear the engine and watch it eat up competitors like they are standing still.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JRvsDUiIEw[/ame]
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
Shipper, very cool car
Few More Shots of the Last Race. Couple of weeks of fiddly work to come, caliper rebuilds, new oil pressure switches, new bearings etc.
IMG_0567_zps3b4ce56f.jpg
IMG_0566_zps262b8979.jpg
IMG_0560_zps94c69149.jpg
IMG_0529_zps0b004439.jpg
IMG_0528_zps2df82037.jpg
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
I forgot to mention that I seen your car in a magazine a few weeks ago. I can't recall which magazine it was, I believe it was either Classic Motorsport or Sport & Exotic Car. Nonetheless, your car looks great.
Over the next 6 weeks I'm preparing to fix a few issues that appeared at the last race weekend. Front wheel bearings, external retainer springs to triple Webers, front and rear brake caliper rebuild, hook up new race tacho, three new sensors, front suspension packers to change geometry, gearbox re-built so 5 speed dogleg to go back in followed by exhaust, extractors have been coated so will put these back in. Then I'll do some further testing with suspension re-setup before going to new tyres. Will run DZ03G Dunlop medium compounds and see how she laps. Will see how much times come down.new medium hook up new race tacho
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
this is amazing...
This is an earlier photo from last year. Pre full race suspension, triple webers and front spoiler. Even back then I had to race that V8 corvette with the massively wide wheels. Post the next round of works (as we develop the car) we think we will be faster. We brake better and hold more speed through corners. In a straight line I get a great look at his tail lights.
71-JOSHUA-PARSONS-BMW-E3A_zps4a647df2.jpg
5-ROD-HUNWICK-CHEV-CORVETTEA1_zps954cf15e.jpg
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
Great work, really enjoyed reading through this thread!
If you don't mind me asking, where did you source your webers/manifolds/linkages?
I would love a set, probably only run 40's however
Ben.
From the US. A company called redline. They are on ebay and have triple weber kits. Not really a huge difference in cost between 40 and 45 DCOE weber manifolds and the M30 was designed with the 45's in mind. Better performance, look great, sound fantastic, go the 45's. 21% increase in airflow!!!!! Cannot beat it!
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
Ah cheers, given the cost did you have any issues with import tax?
Sorry to spam up your thread, but how difficult was the install / setup for the carbs?
I'm looking at replacing the zeniths on my M30 - they are a nightmare to keep in tune :S
Webers landed were from memory around $2,500 AUD. No problem setting up. The manifolds are individual twin units to match the Webers and I needed to port them but the cast aluminium is soft. Just a port match though. The Webers ran lean when first installed and dyno'd in Sydney ensured ample fuel to 8000rpm. If you do not have a race engine you will probable dyno to 6250rpm. The Webers came jetted correctly for the M30 application which was a great time saver as we did not need to change different jets in and out. The main throttle bar, the rod across the top of all webers that permits linkages to open butterflies at the same time was too short. Ask them to add 5 inches to it. They must have given me the twin weber 2002 bar. Still, I just went and bought some stainless steel solid bar and was little hassle.
Redline produced a great kit that was well packaged and easy to install. Easy to tune and if you buy the $49 weber airflow meter off of Ebay things become very simple. If you are Sydney based I can direct you to my installer and my dyno guy. Get the 45's. You will kick yourself if you go 40's.
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
Thanks for the good info
I'm running an otherwise standard M30B28 - with plans for cam/headers etc at a later date.. not sure if 45's are overkill?
Main reason for the upgrade is that the Zenith's it runs are horrible to service/tune, and after nearly 40 years kinda need replacing.
The good, the bad and the ugly.
The good;
* Got the gearbox and extractors back in, place exhaust pipes back in.
* Went to a test day Monday and worked out that;
* Front springs too stiff. At 850lbs we bounce off of the track so no grip. Will get a 700lb set and install for next test.
* Car handling well. Install front strut packers to improve suspension geometry for better corner speed.
* Diff way way too short. Wondered why last race day I was either half a gear too short or too tall for each corner.
* A friend of mine who is a professional racing drive did the drive testing and picked it straight off.
* nothing worse than racing every track in 4th and 5th only.
* So, drop 3.91 LSD out and place 3.45 locked diff in.
* Place new rear strut brace but will need to drop rear shocks to get it in.
The Bad;
* head gasket went just 7 laps into testing.
* worked out that head gasket is not race quality and used head bolts and not studs.
* Will find right race quality head gasket, ARP stud kit and fix.
The Ugly;
*the cost, engine just 30 laps old.
20130608_113838_zps52d7e160.jpg
Pre gearbox in.
20130609_164252_zpscfb882b7.jpg
Holley fuel gauge & my fuel setup for the three webers.
20130609_164302_zps4c5fe65c.jpg
Extractors re coated and back in. Shiny shiny!
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At Sydney Motorsport Park, Free test day.
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Prep for first run
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
Engine bay ready to go. Neat as!
20130610_092330_zpse3fcec4b.jpg
She's one cute girl.
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The grid, Volvo Group A turbo, 750hp Super Saloons, Porches, BMW 2002 turbo super saloons et. al.
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First run.
20130610_102309_zpsaacb8eb7.jpg
2002 turbo looked great!!!
20130610_102314_zps051e60e7.jpg
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
I mean great!!
20130610_102349_zps56e36932.jpg
Volvo Group A with 550hp, she was fast!!!!!.....um.....errrrr..... and square! Things that square should not be fast!
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E3 looks great on the dummy grid
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Surrounded by 500hp plus monsters
20130610_114953_zps1aa990b1.jpg
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
A few people have asked me for a drive-by. Pre the head gasket going and prior to our last race day the mechanic quickly ran the car up and down the street to check the new reconditioned dogleg box and to bed in the new brakes. So, as per usual;
1. Grab a beer.
2. put headphones on.
3. turn up the volume.
4. Enjoy. If not enjoying enough, more beer + more volume = more enjoy.
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
okay, managed to get the upside down video around the right way. Part race video. Qualified 12th, ended up 2nd. Still lot's more development.
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
Upgrades now near complete:
1. New 650/350 lb springs in replacing 850/400lb springs which bounced me through tight corners with no tyre to track acceleration.
2. New front spacers on struts to improve suspension geometry.
3. New tacho in gauge cluster.
4. Four gauges now hooked up.
5. Rear strut brace now in.
6. New high performance billeted hub ready to go in.
7. ARP studs ready for head to go back on.
8. Awaiting the MLS Cometic head gasket kindly ordered for me by Todd at TDC. Gee that guys is professional!
Hopefully the gasket arrives next week so we can finish the car off. Then new tyres, thinking Dunlop DZ03G in a hard compound as forum research leads me to believe that mediums can go off in a 6 lap race under heat. When it hits 35 degrees Celsius you can expect very high track temps and mediums to cook.
1977 633 CSi RHD Euro. S38B38 3.9L M5 Transplant. 5 Speed Getrag Dogleg. 3.73 LSD. 417hp, 369lb/ft
1971 3.0CS E3 2dr Alpina Special Coupe Racer, 347hp, 295lb/ft
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