Replacing Garbage Subwoofers from DSP

[DUNNE44]

I had a real rough day and to cheer myself up I am thinking of getting rid of the dumpy DSP subs.

I need trunk space so I saw some where someone had 2 8'' subs mounted in place of the DSP subs and the Amp mounted on the back wall. I have 0 knowledge of speakers and amps I would greatly appreciate it if someone could post their setup for me to copy. I don't want some gangbanger car having a seizure I just want a nice bass for some johnny cash

[mxracer41]

I just took mine out and wired in some real subs and used a separate amp, it was super easy and it's working well for me

But if you don't wanna do all that there's a company called Bavarian Soundwerks that apparently makes a nice set of subs that bolt right on in place of the old ones. I think they're pretty pricey though, but I have heard good things about them.

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/

[DUNNE44]

I just took mine out and wired in some real subs and used a separate amp, it was super easy and it's working well for me

But if you don't wanna do all that there's a company called Bavarian Soundwerks that apparently makes a nice set of subs that bolt right on in place of the old ones. I think they're pretty pricey though, but I have heard good things about them.

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/

Yea I've looked at BSW but way too expensive. When I said I know nothing about speakers what I meant was I don't know what type a speaker is good or amp. I'm confident I can wire it up just need some guidance on speaker models and brand

[mxracer41]

Rockford Fosgate makes some amazing sound equipment. I'm not sure how you'd hook them up though, and I'm not sure if that stock amp would be powerful enough to make them sound good either.... I'm sure if you did a google search or something though you could find someone who has though.

If you didn't need the trunk space I'd say just wire in another amp and put the subs in a box, it's alot easier!! Do you use your trunk daily?

[TriniSpeC]

I wish I had DSP

[mxracer41]

DSP is amazing

My 98 540i has it and still has the original speakers and everything. Sounds great, it's almost on par with the harmon/kardon system in my dads M3

[DUNNE44]

Rockford Fosgate makes some amazing sound equipment. I'm not sure how you'd hook them up though, and I'm not sure if that stock amp would be powerful enough to make them sound good either.... I'm sure if you did a google search or something though you could find someone who has though.

If you didn't need the trunk space I'd say just wire in another amp and put the subs in a box, it's alot easier!! Do you use your trunk daily?

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Yes I have 2-3 golf bags normally in my trunk.

[Rallim]

Rockford Fosgate makes some amazing sound equipment. I'm not sure how you'd hook them up though, and I'm not sure if that stock amp would be powerful enough to make them sound good either.... I'm sure if you did a google search or something though you could find someone who has though.

If you didn't need the trunk space I'd say just wire in another amp and put the subs in a box, it's alot easier!! Do you use your trunk daily?

BSW's sub system uses a Rockford amp. Go look at how that systems hooked up

[mxracer41]

Really? To be honest I never really looked into it that much, I just thought the subs plugged up the stock amp and that was it. So Rockford specially designed an amp to work with the BSW system, or you just have to do some wiring work to fit it?

[Rallim]

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...9-5-Series-M5/


Yeah, take a look into it. I'm not person who knows wiring or audio setups, but theres some good info on their page.

[James39]

You don't need a separate amp, especially if you don't want earth shattering. Find 2 8" or 10" subs suited for infinite baffle application and wire them up.

The factory are DVC subs, so stick with that for max potential with the factory amp.

[DUNNE44]

http://www.amazon.com/Kicker-CVR8-4-...s=Kicker+cvr-8

Plus do I need an amp? I would like a nice bass but not an ear hurting one. My friends escalade has 2 12" subs that cost $2000. When he turns up the music all the mirrors shake, the whole car shakes. I just want a nice bass that has some kick to it. The stock subs you can only feel in the back seats.

[TriniSpeC]

We really dont care what you friend has dude. You can tell us what you have.

[DUNNE44]

We really dont care what you friend has dude. You can tell us what you have.

You misunderstood me that's what I don't want. I would be quite content with them loud enough to hear in the front.

[James39]

Plus do I need an amp?

No. You already have one. These will put out more than 2x the bass that you get from the nokia box.

[514mach1]

Go for subs with a high db rating (efficiency). There's a big difference between SPL subs and sound quality subs. I haven't been into car stereo for a long time, but back then Pioneer made some good all around subs that would make the most of what your amp had to offer and sound good doing it for a reasonable price. Even though the Kappa Perfect (dating myself here) had a higher db rating, the lower end Pioneers (not their SPL Premiere series) always seemed to outperform them in equivalent enclosures when there wasn't a big amp. My old Rockford DVC subs could hit hard, but took a lot more watts to get them moving. So... going by my 10+ yr old experience, I'd recommend Pioneer or Cerwin Vega shallow subs. If you can fit a 10" instead of 8", do it. You gain a lot more cone area.

[sktn77a]

Get two dual voice coil, low profile, free air, 10" subs and mount them where the M5 subs would go under the rear deck. Look at the underside of the deck and you'll see two 10" round indentations around the 4" nokia sub knockouts - this is where the new subs will go). You'll need some heavy closed-cell foam insulation to make the baffle air tight. Use your DSP amp wiring to the new subs and you'll be happy. The Nokia sub box was a joke!

[TriniSpeC]

do you have to make a box if you are putting the subs in the deck?

[DUNNE44]

do you have to make a box if you are putting the subs in the deck?

Well with DSP I already have a box mounted on the rear shelf

[James39]

Completely remove the Nokia box.

There are stamp-outs (at the very least) where the factory M-audio subs sit right in front of you

You may need to drill holes inside the stamped portion.

Attach the subs right to the rear parcel shelf (from the trunk side) The parcel shelf grilles on the top side for the nokia box are adequate, nothing needs to be modified up top.

[DUNNE44]

The advice to go aftermarket is a good one from the perspective of cost-effectiveness. However, in weak defense of the BMW system, the DSP amplifier uses a series of Philips chip amplifiers which are actually pretty good . There are four woofer channels feeding the two dual voice coil woofers. Each of these channels can produce 40W RMS into 8-Ohms at low distortion. (Philips rates it at 55W, but this is @ 10% THD.)So you get 160 Watts on the woofers alone. I don't have the information at hand, but working from memory, I think the front and rear 5-1/4" speakers used the same 40W amp chip, and the mids and tweeters use a 15W/ch (into 4-Ohms) I.C. The non-optimized sound from the BMW system is more a matter of system engineering choices made by the designers than it is of mediocre quality. Somebody evidently chose that sound. The parts quality and technology used to create the DSP system are capable of much better sound than you get from it as supplied from the factory.

Nope I get it now

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00158...479804&sr=8-20


How hard is it to wire up an amp just for the subwoofer

[BCBJr]

I've done some research and this is what I've found......

The DSP amp has four separate outputs for the subs. That's why there are DVC speakers in the Nokia band pass enclosure. Each coil gets it's own input from the amp effectively doubling the input to the subs.

Bob Hazelwood of Cambridge Soundworks and ADS fame writes...
"...the DSP amplifier uses a series of Philips chip amplifiers which are actually pretty good . There are four woofer channels feeding the two dual voice coil woofers. Each of these channels can produce 40W RMS into 8-Ohms at low distortion."

This is why the M-audio 10" subs work reasonably well when connected up to the DSP amp. The key is to use subs that have a DVC setup. Jamse39 & champaign777 are both proof that it is a relatively simple install without any additional amps beyond the DSP.

Now two of the design parameters I've discovered that should be considered when selecting subs for an IB design would be Vas and Qts

First I've read, "The rule of thumb is that for each driver used, there should be a space no smaller 10 times larger than the Vas of the individual driver. That is then multiplied times the number of drivers. 10 times the total Vas or larger is considered optimal."

The E39 sedan has a trunk volume of approx. 460 liters (16.2 cu ft). So, if you are going to use two 10" subs, divide this number in half, say 230 liters. Then divide that by 10 to get 23 liters. The subs you select should have a Vas of 23 or less. I've also read that you can cheat a little on this value but it may affect the speaker efficiency, i.e. output volume.

Second, " Subs with a low Qts say 0.3 react quickly and produce the punchy sound that everyone likes. But, they need a relatively small enclosure to work well. On the other hand, subs with a high Qts of say 0.6 to 0.7 move slower and produce a more subdued sound but are well suited to a large enclosure." Those are the ones that do quite well mounted in the back shelf area of our cars. The Kicker CVR10 that James39 chose to use has a Qts of 0.6.

So far the best speaker I've found to fit the criteria is the Rockford Fosgate R2SD4-10, DVC 4 ohm, Qts=0.72, Vas=21.7, Shallow mount. About $55 at Sonicelectronix.com

Still doing more research and will keep you all abreast of what I find out....

[DUNNE44]

Thanks man

[BCBJr]

James39.....I thought you were going to show us some pics of the subs install. Did you cut out additional holes where the subs attach?

Hey Dune44, why you selling the Style 351 wheels?

[DUNNE44]

Tires are very expensive and my current summer rims and tires are great.