What sounds better, 2 10" subs or 1 12" sub???

[m lew]

I now need to upgrade my single 12" sub now that my new mono amp way overpowers it. (1000W RMS @ 2 ohms or 500W @ 4 ohms). I am looking to optimize SQ, not necessarily SPL.

I noticed that a lot of you out there have 2 10" subs instead of 1 12" sub. Why? Is there a big difference over a single 12"? I am looking at elemental Designs, Focal Utopia, JL Audio, and Eclipse Titanium. I am asking about 2 10" subs because I think my 3 series trunk is too small to fit 2 12" subs. Also that might be too loud for the rest of my system. Any help would be appreciated.

[scrapz]

10= SQL
12= SPL
10s can hit more accurate and more notes then a 12 can, but lacks the loudness of a 12 . so in your situation its perfect

[SQ Bimmer]

12s not only have a loudness advantage, but will play lower frequencies better. I think 2 10 setups suck in playing lower frequencies, therefore REDUCING SQ.

Just my opinion though. I decided to go with a single 12 in my system, and do not feel anything lacking. The SQ is superb, the SPL is loud, and theres nothing else I can ask for.

[FriedKalamari]

Originally posted by scrapz

10s can hit more accurate and more notes then a 12 can

ah geezz...

not true.

[1995red318i]

2 10s are going to sound better than 1 12.

and yes the e36 trunk can hold two 12s...i used to have a setup like that. but it was way too much.

it was quite loud and it rattled the trunk very badly!

i wouldn't recommend it unless you put them in the spare tire well or do some custom enclosuring. i had mine in a box...it was out of control.

i know have two 8s in the rear deck( stealthboxes ) and it sounds so much better. not quite as loud as the 12s obviously....but the sound quality is so much better and the bass is so much better. its a clean hit...much nicer than i got from the 12s. they are awesome speakers, and will still rattle the trunk if you really want them too

as far as the 10s go though....i have a friend who has two 10s as well. they sound so much better than the 12s i had, and they are louder( but still clean ) than my 8s.

i think part of the reason his 10s sound so good is because he has them in the rear deck just like my stealthboxes. he's a very smart guy and was able to fashion a setup that allowed him to put a 10 in each of the rear speaker slots....it's very nice.

not sure how they would sound in the trunk, but i would imagine they sound a lot better than 12s do....at least in an e36 trunk that is.

[e36M3808]

1 12" V6V2
vs
2 10" V6V2

The 2nd one will have more sound pressure.
the first will hit more accurate and lower frequencies when used in sealed box

[WK446]

m lew:

I am running 2 10's in separate sealed enclosures of 0.7 cubic feet each. This volume was selected for frequency accuracy. My system was professionally installed and the installer commented that the 2 10s I had selected, sounded like 12s,

The reason I choose to run 2 10's was primarily due to their inherent "quickness," a feature that I did not find in a number of 12" subwoofer systems. I auditioned a number of single and dual 12" subwoofer systems (installed in vehicles) and the quickness was simply not there. They definitely had "presence," but not the accuracy I was looking for. The same installer also commented upon this "quickness" and was also thoroughly impressed.

I really pays to do your research and listen to a number of different systems if you can. Don't audition the subwoofers with only bass heavy music either. More delicate and subtle musical selections will really reveal the true nature of the subwoofers. Find out how much volume you have to spare, then choose subwoofers that will perform well in those settings. Ask about the differences between ported and sealed enclosures, as well as the amount of power you will be using to drive the subwoofers. I hope this helps.

[e36M3808]

*Sigh*

It all really depends.
yeah your 2 10"s may sound like 12"s. do you have a ported box? or a sealed MDF? that could be why.
if not. Most car audio shops lie to you even if it does sound good to you and like shit to them... im not trying to prove anyone wrong or anything. all im saying. is when you work with shit like this 5 days a week. you will know what is better.

and in my oppinion so far the most accurate cleanest sub iv heard is the 2 12W6v2 Sealed.
or 2 MB Quarts 302/304 Sealed.

[e36M3808]

Find someone with a 500/1 and 2 W6v1 in ported Box.


those 12" sound Much More louder then the kicker SoloBaric L7 15.
not to mention.. CLEANER.

[m lew]

e36:

Are you talking about 2 12W6v2 in one box? 1995red318 (above) thinks this may be too much for an E36 trunk. Or are you talking about 2 10W6V2?

[m lew]

I may just go "all the way" with ONE 12W6v2, ONE 12W7, or ONE 13W7, in a JL sealed or ported box. Anyone think 2 10s can do better?

[blue]

there are way too many variables to just ask if one 12 will sound better than two 10's. you can easily make it go either way so just choose what fits your space and budget.

also, you cant say that 10's are "quicker" (meaning more accurate) than 12's or even 15's because once again there are just too many variables to make a generic statement like that.

[Kenx007]

Settle down with the clicking!

[ClubSport332ti]

Most informed people can make a general statement like two 10's are quicker than one 12 and will deliver more punch. Two Boston Pro 10.5 LF's vrs 1 JL 12W6v1 sub. I put my money on the Boston pro for sound quality SQL any day and will give it an edge on SPL too.

[Deltron3030]

Here's my opinion, and this will vary according to several different factors. 2 10's will deliver more output than 1 12, at the expense of frequency range. A 12" vs a 10" is more a question of dynamic range. A 12 is able to reach deeper bass frequencies so you feel it more, a 10 tends not to hit these lower levels. This of course, varys with brand and model engineering. Whether a 12 is "more boomy" and not as "tight," depends more on your box type, band pass filers, and EQ. The reason that 2 10's have more output is because you have two as opposed to 1 12. More speakers=more sound. I have 2 Rockford Fosgate Punch Dual-voicecoil subs in a sealed box driven by an 97 punch 200 amp running mono. The frequecy response is unbelievably full and crisp. You can more than likely fit 2 12's in your trunk as I drive a 93 grand am and have plenty of room. I swear by 12" subs, but you must have some controlibility built into your system, ie. Direct subwoofer output control built into your head unit, a good EQ, and a adjustable bandpass filer. As far as overpowering the rest of your system, it depends on whether you are using just the head unit power for mids and highs or have a powerful amp to them. Give me more info and I can let you know.

[blue]

oh jeez im sorry guys. my computer was acting goofy when i posted that.

[m lew]

Thanks guys for all the input. After seeing some of your recent responses, I apologize for not giving you other relevant info that could affect the answer to the original question.

Here is the rest of my current system:
The head unit doesn't power any speakers. It sends a pre-amp signal to a Alpine 12 band EQ. From there the signal travels to 2 amps, a 40W x 4 "main amp" (Eclipse) and a 1000W @ 2 ohm sub amp (PPI). The main speakers are 4 sets of Focal Polyglas 130V components (1 5.25" midrange and 1 1" Ti tweeter per set). These are adequately powered with my main amp. The only thing I want to change out now is my single 12" sub. It is a poly cone Eclipse rated 170-350 W RMS. At loud volumes, it easily distorts. I want something that can handle more power, will produce clean SQ, can reach the same low frequencies, and will balance well with the rest of my system.

The original question asks whether one 12 or 2 10s will sound better. I want to make this analysis as easy and valid as possible. So let's assume we are talking about 2 10s or 1 12 of the exact same manufacturer and model, ie., 2 JL10W6s versus 1 JL12W6. I am not trying to compare 2 10s of one brand versus 1 12 of another brand.

I did not specify type of enclosure because I an open to both sealed and ported. I am already planning on buying a new box for my new driver(s), whatever the ultimate decision. The aim is tight bass, not the most dB possible out of my small E36 trunk.

My sub amp and Alpine EQ both have variable crossover points for the signal going into the sub amp. If more info is needed to share an opinion or analysis, please advise and I'll give the needed info. Many TIA.

[driveaford]

Personally, i like 2 10's sound tighter

[FriedKalamari]

MLew - what u need to do is go to the shop and listen to a 10" vs a 12". Anyone who is saying that a 10" will hit more accurate than a 12" or 15" doesnt know how to use a sub. I would personally go with 2 10" w6's over a single 12" w6 because they should displace more than the 12" would. But the 12" will go lower but the 10" will hit the higher notes a bit better. Other things to consider is the box, 2 10's will need more room than 1 12", it will also be heavier with 2 10's, and they willl also need more power than 1 12". So take all that into consideration and make a choice. a JL w6 or w7 properly set up will give u clean, tight bass no matter what size.

[m lew]

Thanks Mr. Capone. Yes, I have listened to a pair of JL 10W0s in shops, and also in an E36 trunk, and yes - they do hit hard. That's why I will likely end up going with JL. I figure if W0s are so good, the W6 and W7 have got to be that much better.

Yes, I know that 2 10s will require more power than 1 12, and this factor alone is pushing me in favor of the single 12. I know I can always install another amp, but this is added weight. I can easily take out a heavy sub box for track days. But it would be a genuine hassle to remove/re-install my amps each time I went to the track. Another factor in favor of getting only a single 12.

Last is the frequency response. I agree with all who said that 12s hit lower/deeper than 10s, for a given mfr and model. And I will likely end up getting a sealed box since I agree with your comments (on your thread) about tuned ports producing peaky frequency response near the optimized frequency as opposed to producing a flat response over a wide range of frequencies.

I will keep you all posted on the outcome. Thanks for all of your interest and advice!

[scream n323is]

what type of music do you listen to mostly?This is a question you have to ask yourself when chosing the right sub for you..I'm running 2 12w6v2 and 2 jl 500/1 i listen to mostley techno and rock music..the 12's do sound awesome..but wish i wouldv'e went with the 10's instead..12's do hit lower freq but 10's are more acurate and provide a quicker response to the music i listen too..i believe someone earlier mention do some research and listen to diff.subs bring along some of your fav cd's that you listen too..just keep in mind that subs do sound differnt in a sound room compared to your trunk..also..check out your local good guy's or tweeters.higher end audio stores will be a better choice for higher end car audio eqpt..one last thing..just dont talk to a salesman..ask to speak to the installer and maybe get his input on some thing's..im an installer myself..and hope this could be of some help to you bro..

[FriedKalamari]

mlew - heh well if u think w0's hit hard then ur in for a suprise if u get w6 or 7

[m lew]

I listen to mostly rock, some hard rock, some jazz, some R&B, little classical, little rap. Some favorites include Pink Floyd, early Motown, No Doubt, etc.

The reason I posted this question on this board is that I have grown tired of going into shops. If one or two local shops had all the good subs hooked up for an easy side-by-side comparison, that would have been my plan A. I can go into many shops and listen to what they happen to have hooked up. Which is never anything I have ever remotely heard of, or your typical Sony Explod, Kicker Solobarics, or Alpine "Type R." (These aren't bad products, just not what I'm looking for.) And each shop tries to push whatever brand they have in stock, as opposed to giving me all the information and letting the customer decide.

Yes I know the best way to make a decision would be to listen to these various options myself, even though a store display has different acoustics than a car interior. But barring that option, this board has been a truly valuable learning experience. I learned a lot here that I would never have been able to learn from the sales pros. And yes, I think that most of the time, the installers have a better handle on what works than the in-store "talking heads." Some of whom I doubt even own a car. Trouble is, most installers I have talked to seem to know a lot more about producing SPL than about producing high SQ. This is a generalization, but my take on the local talent based on some of their setups.

Basically I don't have the resources yet to buy one of everything and test each setup in my car. I have to make a decision based on what is the most likely to succeed, or the least likely to fail. I think this thread has been very useful for getting that kind of practical info. None of the posters has tried to push me one way or the other, or to sell me anything. However, I give more weight to some commentators than others, based on what these same people have said on various other topics.

I appreciate all advice given so far, and any more that comes in.

[scream n323is]

no prob...mlew..glad to be of some help..in my opp..i would either go with a jl audio set-up..10w6 v2 or a single 10w7 with a jl 1000/1 or on the high side check out diamond audio's new line..they have some of the cleanist amps iv'e heard for the money along with there sub's..but anyways..hope i could be of some help to you bro..

[m lew]

sreamin: are you saying 2 10W6s over 1 10W7?