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Thread: NOTORIOUS VR's E36 328is turbo build

  1. #1
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    NOTORIOUS VR's E36 328is turbo build

    So I think it's about time I gather my thoughts in one place, where I can share updates and pictures as I go along with this build.

    I bought this E36 to replace my recently stolen B5 S4 that I had been building for about 3 years (big turbo's etc). It was recovered by the police but was found damaged to the point where the chassis had taken a hard hit (door wouldn't close properly anymore, subframe bar/connector kinked) and the car was a write off.

    My S4 before it was taken from me:



    I couldn't stomach the fact to rebuild it after what it had been through and getting another S4 and hoping it would have been as clean as mine just wasn't going to cut it. So I decided to move on to a different platform and here I am.

    I picked up a decently clean 1999 328is, in titanium silver the body was straight and clean, it was in a minor incident in the front end but that didn't matter much to me as it was all replaceable body parts anyway. Plus I picked up the car for a good price and it was solid/tight otherwise. Has basically brand new H&R cup kit installed which is getting swapped out for coils and an M3 exhaust system.

    Anyway, I've been stock piling parts ever since getting it, nothing as been installed except for the cluster that's why no pics at this time.

    In the body/looks department:
    • Full OE M-bumpers front/rear, M side skirts.
    • M cluster
    • ZHP backlight shift knob
    • DEPO glass e-codes + 55w HID kit
    • DEPO clear corners and fender turn signals
    • Red/clear tails
    • BC Coilovers w/ camber plates
    • Bayern Bavaria in 18x8.5/9.5 wheels in silver (planned 235/40 and 255/35 or 265/35)


    Test fit of the rear wheels:


    Now for the go fast parts... I bought the turbo kit used from a member on here switlikbob, basic components really (mani, mounts, turbo, dp, WG/BOV, FP + catch can).

    • SPA T4 manifold
    • Comp 6065 tripple BB turbo (.68 a/r)
    • Tial 50mm BOV
    • Tial 38mm WG (9 psi spring)
    • 3" downpipe w/ cat + res and recirculated WG
    • dcvee / Don made AC relocation bracket + engine mount for over subframe piping
    • Vibrant catch can
    • Walbro FP
    • Treadstone TR1035 3.5" 1000CFM IC w/ 3" in/out and baffled end tanks
    • 3" SS IC piping
    • Injector Dynamics 1000cc
    • VEMS V3.6 ECU
    • VEMS round gauge (connected via AIM protocol)
    • Fast reacting open element IAT sensor
    • Aquamist HFS-4
    • APR headstuds
    • Cometic 0.140" MLS
    • UUC organic twindisc + SS slave line
    • UUC tranny mounts
    • S52 cams
    • New seals for the motor
    • PTP turbo blanket and lava heat wrap for the SPA mani + downpipe


    Looking to run approx 1 BAR on Shell 91 pump (no ethanol) and approx 1.5 BAR (22psi) on 100% methanol injection via the Aquamist.

    Boost will be controlled by the VEMS via the closed loop PID controller which will be tied into the Aquamist's failsafe under high boost, and EGT probe will be installed pre-turbine to monitor temps and intervene with safety measures (add fuel/reduce boost) if needed.

    The car should be heading into my buddies shop mid this week where I will start the tear down process and pull the motor and tranny. Plan is to have it running by the weekend/early next week and tuned in time for H2Oi in Ocean City MD the following weekend.

    Stay tuned for more updates and pictures as things progress
    Last edited by NOTORIOUS VR; 06-16-2013 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #2
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    Sorry to hear about the stolen b5.

    Looking forward to documentation/results. Are you planning on making a new wiring loom, or clipping off the Motronic connector and putting the VEMS connectors on?
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzu70 View Post
    Sorry to hear about the stolen b5.

    Looking forward to documentation/results. Are you planning on making a new wiring loom, or clipping off the Motronic connector and putting the VEMS connectors on?
    actually I will be removing a Motronic connector from an ECU so that I can make a PnP harness. My plan is to dabble in the OBD2 BMW world eventually and that would let me go back to the stock ECU whenever I wanted, I'm very familiar with VA/Audi/Porsche tuning and do tune cars at this time. The BMW stuff is just all over the place though and don't really want to bother with it right now.

    Besides the only reason for me to ever go back to a stock ECU would be for emissions reasons where I would move to a place that did OBD scanning.

    Otherwise standalone > stock ECU in the case of the E36
    Last edited by NOTORIOUS VR; 09-17-2012 at 01:34 PM.

  4. #4
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    Nice! Glad to see the ball rolling, I cant wait to see how much you can get out of the spa manifold with the setup. There is a small glimmer of hope of me getting my car ready in time and going down to h2oi with the stancefactory boys but my ti is in pieces and might not be ready in time not to mention a wedding i may or may not have to attend...:

    sub'd

  5. #5
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    ^^ curious is the SPA mani considered to flow poorly? I haven't really looked into it but it doesn't look all that bad to me.

    Of course I would like to move to a top mount setup eventually with a built 3L and a larger turbo, but for now I'm confident that 500whp should be well within reach.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    ^^ curious is the SPA mani considered to flow poorly? I haven't really looked into it but it doesn't look all that bad to me.

    Of course I would like to move to a top mount setup eventually with a built 3L and a larger turbo, but for now I'm confident that 500whp should be well within reach.
    No not at all...Its just most spa manifold users are on stock DMEs so from what i've seen nobody has really gone into the 600whp range with them....most have made easily 500-550whp...I know TRM employees have made great power on them but it's never really been made that public....which is why i'm looking forward to seeing what a standalone+good tune+meth can do

  7. #7
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    I forgot to add the option of jumper harness. Like you say, will be nice to have the option to go back.

    I cut off the motronic connector after realizing I had no reason to go back to the factory ECU as the e30 motronic is pretty weak.
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  8. #8
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    ^^ Absolutely makes sense in an E30... I did that for my friends M50 turbo E30

    Quote Originally Posted by e30kid89 View Post
    which is why i'm looking forward to seeing what a standalone+good tune+meth can do
    as am I

  9. #9
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    Nice! Glad to see Bob's kit go to a good home!

  10. #10
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    I was following your Audi-related threads including the Nefmoto ones. What happened to your car was heartbreaking. I also recently lost my B5 S4 baby. I totally relate!

    I just bought a 2000 Z3 and I'm trying to learn everything I can. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of tuning goodness you end up bringing to the platform!

    I think I have a bad O2 sensor and I really wish I could just code it out like on the ME7!

  11. #11
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    Do you have to run an oil lift pump with t4/spa manifold?

  12. #12
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    Switlik's kit lives on with now a Vems controller. This should be interesting. OP sorry to hear about the S4 looked like a clean example.
    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    ― George Orwell

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by trichard3000 View Post
    I was following your Audi-related threads including the Nefmoto ones. What happened to your car was heartbreaking. I also recently lost my B5 S4 baby. I totally relate!

    I just bought a 2000 Z3 and I'm trying to learn everything I can. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of tuning goodness you end up bringing to the platform!

    I think I have a bad O2 sensor and I really wish I could just code it out like on the ME7!
    Thanks, and maybe one day! Would be nice to have an open platform here as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucky hare View Post
    Do you have to run an oil lift pump with t4/spa manifold?
    From what I've been told, I do not. The PO didn't run one and nothing that I can find seems to suggest that I need one with the SPA mani.

    Quote Originally Posted by GG///M3 View Post
    Switlik's kit lives on with now a Vems controller. This should be interesting. OP sorry to hear about the S4 looked like a clean example.
    Yes it does, and thanks!

  14. #14
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    tires have been ordered!

    235/40 and 255/35/18's - Federal 595RS-R
    Tire on a 10.5" rim, so I think on my 9.5" it should just have a minimal stretch which will be perfect...


    Car is going into the shop today where I will be pulling the front end and prepping the motor to be pulled.

  15. #15
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    I'm interested in your opinion on those, I've been looking in to the 265/36/18 RSR as an much cheaper alternated to Z1 star specs as a my lower gear traction problems are getting on my nerves. The 255/35/18 evo v12s are not cutting it.

  16. #16
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    I'll be sure to let you know once I have them and am putting some power though them.

    I had a set of 595SS's on my VR6 Jetta a few years back and they were like glue, and everything I read about the 595RS-R (limited info though) point to the fact that they offer a TON of grip right out of the box. While for racing they get greasy quickly after pushing for a few hard laps and there are better choices for a dedicated track tire I think they'll be plenty at home on the street.

  17. #17
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    Have you used the "round" display gauge before? I ready you could use multiple round gauges to basically display every parameter your heart desired.

    Ever use more than one?

    I currently have the red LCD, but I am thinking the round might be a better way to go as its more visible.
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  18. #18
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    Can we get some pics to show this AC bracket and what it does or how it moves the AC stuff in comparison to stock? That would be super cool!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    I'll be sure to let you know once I have them and am putting some power though them.

    I had a set of 595SS's on my VR6 Jetta a few years back and they were like glue, and everything I read about the 595RS-R (limited info though) point to the fact that they offer a TON of grip right out of the box. While for racing they get greasy quickly after pushing for a few hard laps and there are better choices for a dedicated track tire I think they'll be plenty at home on the street.
    I currently have the 595RSR in the front of my car. 245/35. I refuse to run them on the rear due to its wear rating. Even with half the power you will be making i go thru rear tires like every 2 months. If i were u, ill look for a different a decent wear rating tire for the rear since u will burn thru them like nothing.

    but then again I'm also in Schumacher mode on the streets.
    #E36-S54 #CSLWannabe

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzu70 View Post
    Have you used the "round" display gauge before? I ready you could use multiple round gauges to basically display every parameter your heart desired.

    Ever use more than one?

    I currently have the red LCD, but I am thinking the round might be a better way to go as its more visible.
    I've never used my Round with a VEMS before, this will be the first time. Yes you can daisy chain them if you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colby Colbs View Post
    Can we get some pics to show this AC bracket and what it does or how it moves the AC stuff in comparison to stock? That would be super cool!
    Absolutely, I will take some pictures when I'm at that point

    Quote Originally Posted by ZiMMie View Post
    I currently have the 595RSR in the front of my car. 245/35. I refuse to run them on the rear due to its wear rating. Even with half the power you will be making i go thru rear tires like every 2 months. If i were u, ill look for a different a decent wear rating tire for the rear since u will burn thru them like nothing.

    but then again I'm also in Schumacher mode on the streets.
    Damn too late Mike, they're already on their way... guess I'll have to find a replacement sooner then I thought


    Anyway, moving on... last night I dug in to the car, a very good friend of mine passed by the shop last night and said "let's do this" so we started to rip apart the front end of the car... started around 7pm...





    At this point we made some food on the BBQ (mmm steak on a fresh Baguette) and then went back at it and had the motor out just before midnight:





    took the IM off, and separated the tranny so the motor can go on the engine stand later:



    Called it quits @ 2 am... was a long day... going back soon to put the motor on the stand and remove the head, clean up the block and make a nice list of gaskets, hoses, anything that needs to be replaced while it's all out. Also want to scrub the engine bay, tranny and FIX THE DAMN STEERING WHEEL SQUEAK!

    Stay tuned!

    Yesterday ripped into the block... took off all the unnecessary things like emissions canisters, clutch fan, stock headers, and too anything else off that I had to and wanted to replace like AC, water pump, VANOS, etc...




    Cams and trays are out....



    And finally the block revealing a Victor Reinz gasket, so I know the head has been off before on this car, probably recently at that since all the chain guides look new as well... actually the motor for it's mileage (around 225k km) was completely bone dry no leaks of any kind.



    [img]

    Head ready to be sent to machine shop for resurfacing on Monday...



    Nitrous the dog (coolest dog ever):



    Today I'll probably end up scrubbing the engine bay of the E36 and maybe clean up the block a bit, but it's Sunday and I'm not really feeling working on my shit..

    Besides that My buddy wants to up the boost on his turbo NSX we'll probably put that on the rollers today, last time I tuned it IAT's were around 70F (still made 500whp @ 8.5 psi) now that the temps are dropping I wanna go over it again and do some touch ups.


    Last edited by NOTORIOUS VR; 06-16-2013 at 11:45 AM. Reason: pics

  21. #21
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    Notorious VR,

    Good to see you around here! You switched over to the dark side hey?

    Good luck with the build

  22. #22
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    Hey Joaquin, yeah after the S4 was gone decided on something else to build up, what brings you to the dark side lol...

    Anyway, not much of an update but inportant info none the less.

    Yesterday I was speaking with some of my VEMS friends (hw/sw developers) and was made aware that later BMW's have weird cam sensors. Naturally looking on here and google nothing turned up, people just assume the cam sensor is a HALL type.

    After speaking with TheJuggernaut who had mentioned something like this to me before when he was getting info from multiplex about his setup.

    After studying a few different years of E36 schematics I've seem to have come to the point where I understand what is happening here.

    The early (pre-mid 1994) cars that were still running Bosch Motronic ECU's are the only ones that ran a true Hall effect cam sensor:



    Where as after sometime in 1994 when BMW decided to go with Siemens ECU's it looks like Siemens decided to use their own style of cam sensor that is more like a VR style sensor, but it's not a VR. One of the VEMS developers actually thought it acted more like a reed switch.

    So any car with an MS40/41 ECU will have this strange Siemens cam sensor which will not work with anything other then the Siemens ECU (at this point anyway, the one developers is working on having a solution for VEMS ECU's).

    You can see in the following picture, that the early car (1995) seems to have a VR crank and cam sensor, but in reality the cam sensor is just the strange Siemens sensor.



    On the 1999 car you see that they switched to the Hall crank sensor (note the picture of the crank sensor is the same as the 1993 cam sensor with the X), but are still using their own Siemens cam sensor (again seems to be depicted as a VR unit).

    In the end what this means is you have one choice when you want to run sequential injection on a MS40/41 car with standalone. You need to buy a real Bosch style Hall effect sensor (P/N: 12141740959).

    Other then that, I bought a BBK from the BF Marketplace it was a deal I couldn't pass up:

    8 piston fronts:


    4 piston rears:


    My head is still at the machinist being straightened, and then will be resurfaced and will be waiting for me when I come back as Thursday I'm leaving for OCMD for H2Oi so not much will be done ont he car until I come back, any one else gonna be there?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    any one else gonna be there?
    See ya there!
    What will you be in? Where ya staying? Outcast meet!
    Last edited by BobRoss; 09-26-2012 at 11:29 AM.

    [ 1990 325is Turbo ]
    "..a true hotrodder wouldn't be content until he had created a car so violent, so totally sick
    that the act of dropping the hammer would result in instant death. Anything less results in the need to go faster."
    -Tony DeFeo

  24. #24
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    See ya there!
    What will you be in? Where ya staying? Outcast meet!
    ill be there.. if it doesn't rain were doing a bonfire on the beach at asseatique island!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  25. #25
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    Hey Notorious VR.

    Here is what the scope signal looks like,
    You can see it switches frequency at the same place every cycle. Should be simple to make the ecu use it.

    http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?pa...BigMotronicPin
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