E39 - Cold Start Issues (video)

[m3d9]

Hey guys,

Just got this 2003 530i 3 months ago, only 85,000km, beautiful condition. I had it inspected by a mechanic, all good, great condition. Once it got cold outside it began having troubles starting if it had been sitting for a while. Would take 3 cranks, or one really long one. On the long crank it would kinda come to life slowly, lights etc, then start turning over, then a bit of a grinding sound and then come to life. It always starts no problem if it has been driven recently. Did that a couple times and then battery died. Jumped battery, was fine for a week, then same thing. Replaced battery, drove it for a day, ran fine, next day, it did the same thing after sitting in the cold.

I've caught one of the starts on video. This one isn't that bad, it was a warmer day, had been sitting for about 14 hours before this.




Could one of y'all take a look and let me know what you think? Do you think I need a new starter or think it might be a battery drain issue? Fuel pump? Seems odd to be the started cause I've had cars with bad starters and they would grind randomly or religiously, not only when it had been sitting for a bit.


It's been warmer here, above zero these last few days and still happens. Gets a little worse than this in colder days. It once started shaking real bad and had a really rough time starting, but that was with the mechanic and he was being rough with it, revving it while starting, I almost smacked him one.


I've also seemingly sprung a leak, in the dead centre of the car, on the drivers side, inward about a 1/2 a foot. It's clear and odourless fluid. Slow drip. Maybe sunroof runoff?


I didn't have much luck with the mechanic, I gotta find one that knows older BMWs better here in Toronto. Ended up just getting new spark plugs and a new fuel filter, and one hell of a bill.

I've checked to see if the car is going to sleep by opening the trunk and waiting about 20 minutes to see if the light goes off, it does.

I was trying to see if it was fuel pump by turning it to position one a few times before doing the full crank to get the fuel pump started, seems to have the same issue regardless.

Below are the error codes I got from the mechanic and the fuel pressure. Fuel pressure is great but don't know what it is when the car is off, I asked the mechanic to test but... no luck with this guy.

Thanks for your help!!!

[edjack]

The grinding before the start may mean that the starter is not engaging right away. What is the overnight battery voltage?

When did you measure the fuel pressure?

[pleiades]

That isn't a sound I'd want to hear my car make. I wonder if the plunger in the starter solenoid is getting gummed up and saying damn it's too cold for this!

Also, that DTC code .... seems to be pointing to Vanos trouble, but it might be that the intake cam position sensor is in its death throes.

[m3d9]

@edjack I’ll check the battery voltage tonight, it’s been sitting for a couple days. I had the fuel pressure checked a little over a week ago. The mechanic measured it while it was running though, I asked if they could keep it hooked up and see how much it drops when the car is turned off and a little while after that, he said that wasn’t possible... :/

@pleiades yah not a good sound indeed. Gets worse than that as well. Death throes... that sounds bad

[pleiades]

I think if you are getting about 50 psi at the fuel rail, it's good. Pressure will fall when the car is off.

I'm not fully versed on all the issues that DTC code can point to, but changing out the intake cam sensor is not that hard or expensive. If you decide to try a new one, better to go with genuine BMW for these.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...eplacement.htm

If the starter is failing to mount its pinion gear smoothly onto the flex-plate/flywheel teeth, it could be that the solenoid is simply gummed up. Starters can be rebuilt (new brushes, cleaning out, slightly lubing the solenoid plunger, etc.) but it's easier and faster just to install a new one. Bosch is probably what you have in there.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...eplacement.htm


Incidentally, have you looked at your CCV system lately, or ever cleaned out the idle control valve? The CCV system can -- especially in cold climates -- get fairly plugged with fuel/water condensate (known as "mayo" on these forums). The ICV is located just above the throttle body (that small "elbow" branching off from the main intake rubber boot leads in to it), and eventually gets jammed up with soot. Removing and spraying the gunk out with carb cleaner until the ICV rattles freely again is something that has cured many an e39 of poor starting and idling ills.

[m3d9]

This is really super helpful information, and great links, thank you very much @pleiades! I'm definitely going to look into my CCV system, I have not checked it out yet.

I took another video with the battery test on. Mind you this is a brand new battery so it should stay pretty juiced up. This was after the car had been sitting for about 36 hours in negative temperatures. I had it in position 1 for a while trying to figure out the cluster test.

[pleiades]

Well, it cranked your car but what is the voltage with the car running and not? If you've been trying to crank the car alot and/or driving only short distances, the alternator won't have enough time to recharge the battery.

I've never tried the battery test with the car off, so I plead ignorance, but if those readings are what I think they are, the alt seems fine (13.5V plus or minus a bit) and the battery looks about dead (9.x V).

[m3d9]

Yah so if I’m reading the battery test right, it’s 11.4 when off, drops to 9.7 when starting and then climbs to 13.5

[8ender]

As someone who just bought a 2003 530i with 130k kms be prepared some some weird issues not because of mileage but because of age and not being driven. Some of these sort themselves out (hard start issue for me just worked itself out) and some, like broken headlight adjusters, ruined tensioners, etc will manifest themselves once you start driving it and need some love.

[m3d9]

Absolutely @8ender, I’m trying to stay ahead of the curve and doing a lot of maintenance before things become a problem. I was lucky and my car had a bunch of stuff recently done to it as the previous owner thought he’d be driving it longer than he had. Brand new headlights, brakes, tires and all that. I’ve gotten all belts replaced, flushed all fluids, replaced fuel filter and spark plugs.

Were your hard starts like mine?

Anyone know what the leak in centre might be? It’s drivers side, about 1/2 foot inward, clear odourless fluid.

[pleiades]

.....

Anyone know what the leak in centre might be? It’s drivers side, about 1/2 foot inward, clear odourless fluid.

Judging from the description you gave in your initial post, clear and odorless would sound like water, but is it something else, maybe oily? Like brake fluid? The undercover paneling in the area you described basically hides the fuel filter, fuel lines, and perhaps some of the metal brake lines.

Your AC system has two drains on either side of the transmission well; if they were plugged somehow, maybe AC condensate would find its way through some other path, but again, that's only water ....

[ross1]

Yah so if I’m reading the battery test right, it’s 11.4 when off, drops to 9.7 when starting and then climbs to 13.5

Standing voltage s/b ~12.6v
your voltage is too low standing and that it drops to 9.7 when (almost)cranking tells me the battery isn't fully charged. The 13.5 once it starts says the alternator is working, trying to charge the battery.
Make sure all the battery connections are tight and clean first, including the ground wire by the tail light.
If connections are good and unless you have a parasitic draw somewhere it's battery time.

The noise you hear is the starter gear grinding at the flywheel because there is not enough push from the underpowered solenoid to engage it properly. You'll eventually damage the starter and the flywheel doing this.

[m3d9]

Thank you for helping make sense of the battery voltage @ross1, makes sense to me now.

I got a new starter and also found the last mechanic had left a PVC hose not connected all the way and it was leaking oil on my starter...

Anyway, seems to be starting perfectly now!

Quick question for you guys, is the E39's cigarette lighter a live lighter? Does it stay live even once the car is turned off and gone to sleep? I'm thinking about getting one of those solar battery maintainers for the winter months. Anyone tried one?

[RLJett]

Quick question for you guys, is the E39's cigarette lighter a live lighter? Does it stay live even once the car is turned off and gone to sleep?

The one on my 2002 stays live. Do you have a USB charger for your phone? You can plug that in and confirm for yourself.