540i Intake Manifold Velocity Stacks

[alwayswanted535]

I was lucky the injectors were already yanked out on the E32 when I got there. All I had to do was remove the manifold bolts, cut the big insulated wire strand on top, cut the vac lines at the TB. The struggle was separating the alum. pipe from the OSV. You have to push the manifold toward the back to disconnect. I took out the manifold with the throttle body as one unit. They wanted another $25 for the TB. I said no thanks so I took it off. The torx screws on the TB get stripped very easily. I had to use a vise grip to clamp on the heads to turn them loose.

I am going to install this in the 6 spd for sure. Don't know why they put these things that are designed for high RPMs in the E32s since most E32s come in autos.

[K Fox]

They're 11mm, I just removed and installed the manifolds a few times this week.

Bruin, bring at least a 10, 11, 13mm sockets, various extensions, a torx set, and a few flathead screwdrivers.

12mm not needed.
The intake manifold nuts are about the only 11mm nuts on the E34s. I don't remember using them anywhere else.

Yeah, that 11mm threw me off the first time I did it - was very weird to see that size like that...thankfully I had one.

Useful tools for mani pulling...a set of picks for the injector clips is nice, mentioned wrenches/sockets and screwdrivers, and I find a set of needlenose pliers to to quite useful - even more so if they're vicegrips type locking needlenose's. And to make it easier on you, a set of cutters to deal with the fuel hose connections - it's easier to cut the hose on the JY car than to try to undo them properly, much faster too. If you plan on removing the throttle body before you leave (they usually cost extra, and there's no reason for it really), you'll want to bring a set of Torx bits - #30 is the proper size and will help with not stripping them out. Other than that, the fan clutch wrench and holder are kinda useful, too. Not really a lot of tools, at least not big ones, are needed for this. I have a small soft tool bag, and I had a lot more than I needed when I got mine - a full set of wrenches and sockets, for instance - so if you only carry what you need you might only be packing in about 10 lbs, depending on your tools.

Fox

[Layne]

The torx bolts always strip out and I've had to drill several of them. Luckily it's easy to do, and once the head pops off you can remove the rest of the bolt by hand. So a cordless drill and 1/4" bit might come in handy.

[Shoomakan]

I'm not convinced they will yield any gains. As previously mentioned, a dyno run (same dyno, similar weather, swapped manifolds) is one way to be more informed, but if the difference is marginal it could be one of any other factors, too.

As Dud mentioned, our cars put in over 265whp without this "mod". Don't see the trouble of going through this unless the 4.4 engine I buy for my hybrid swap has these already.

Don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but we all know 90% of the "easy mods" don't work. I genuinely hope it does, but I'm not counting any chickens.

[bubba966]

A yard up north of me says they've got a '93 740 so I might go check it out this weekend. It's been there a couple weeks though so who knows what's left of it.

[MazDuh]

I pulled the intake manifold off of a 5/93 Build date 540i today, and it has the velocity stacks. My 1/94 build date 540i does NOT have them. I think the change happened at the years end. Lots of other stuff changes at years end mid-model year.

Not sure if it'll make any more power, I'm sure it won't HURT anything. I figure... i'm putting an engine together... why not?

Also, within the next couple of days i'll get some pics comparing M60 and M62 throttle body's. Im positive the bore size is the same, but the M60 has that goofy deflector plate. I kind of feel like BMW was experimenting with a bunch of small and subtle differences, My guess is they did this not for power but for driveability, to make the most linear torque curve they could.

[Layne]

I was looking at an M60 throttle body today... The wedge thing is just held on with 2 screws. Why not just remove it and plug the holes? Is that the only difference between that and the M62 TB?

[MazDuh]

I was looking at an M60 throttle body today... The wedge thing is just held on with 2 screws. Why not just remove it and plug the holes? Is that the only difference between that and the M62 TB?

It might be. I'm not as much concerned with making more power with the M62 over M60, but if i can swap throttle body's and everything fits the same, and i don't have to figure out how to plug those holes... it'll save some time.

Also, plugging those holes could be dangerous. Last winter a VCIS screw fell out of my qx4's intake manifold and broke the crown off of cylinder #5, and wiped out the motor. I rather go with a solid piece of metal. Worst case you might be able to swap the throttle plate... but aligning those isn't fun.

-Eric

[SchnellerE34]

Just picked up an M62 TB off eBay for $40.00 shipped. I will have to check my manifold for velocity stacks when I swap it out.

[K Fox]

Also, plugging those holes could be dangerous. Last winter a VCIS screw fell out of my qx4's intake manifold and broke the crown off of cylinder #5, and wiped out the motor. I rather go with a solid piece of metal. Worst case you might be able to swap the throttle plate... but aligning those isn't fun.

-Eric

You would only weld those to close them, if you did this. For the reason you mention above - anything that can become loose in the intake system should be either locktited to within an inch of it's life or welded. For what it's worth, welding 2 small holes up probably wouldn't cost much if you can't do it yourself.

Fox

[nonturbodan]

The B40 and B44 throttle bodies are the same size. The throttle plate is the difference. If you were to remove the wedges from a B40 TB it would make the car tend to lurch off idle. Being a high compression, fuel injected V8 it is very responsive even at low manifold pressures. The wedges help tame the roll on response. The B44 does this without the obstructive wedges.

This is the leading edge of the throttle plate:


And this is the trailing edge:


The wedges at least triple the thickness of the throttle plate. BMW did bevel the leading edge to minimize the restriction, but the best solution is a B44 TB. I'm sure they're not a major restriction but theres no reason not to get rid of them.

There should be no loss of low end with an early type B40 manifold. You may gain low end power since the bellmouths effectively lengthen the intake runners. You should see gains across the board in addition to that due to the more efficient runner design. The only configuration where you could possibly lose torque would be for the VANOS 4.4 motors.

[bubba966]

Hit the yard up north today for a '93 740 they had. It'd been there for 3 weeks so most things were gone but the intake manifold was still on it.

I couldn't see well enough into it ICV port to tell if it had the stack or not. But it was a 12/92 build and had 4 fuel rail bolts so I pulled it.

After some fun yanking it, I got it off and could see inside. It was a velocity stack manifold...

Not looking forward to swapping it onto my M-Sport as that's going to be tougher than pulling it as I did since I was not nice to the parts surrounding the yard manifold. Was raining and I wasn't gonna mess w/it so a lot of things got cut instead of disconnected. Can't do that on my car that I want to drive again...

[Bloodhound50]

Found this article, has some good info on intakes. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question517.htm




This too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stack

Based on what I've read in this thread and the last 2 articles I posted it would seem that maybe BMW used the early year m60 with the velocity stacks for power, then detuned the motor. Noise could be a logical factor to ditch the stacks in later years, especially in a 7 series where comfort is key.

[alwayswanted535]

Hit the yard up north today for a '93 740 they had. It'd been there for 3 weeks so most things were gone but the intake manifold was still on it.

I couldn't see well enough into it ICV port to tell if it had the stack or not. But it was a 12/92 build and had 4 fuel rail bolts so I pulled it.

After some fun yanking it, I got it off and could see inside. It was a velocity stack manifold...

Not looking forward to swapping it onto my M-Sport as that's going to be tougher than pulling it as I did since I was not nice to the parts surrounding the yard manifold. Was raining and I wasn't gonna mess w/it so a lot of things got cut instead of disconnected. Can't do that on my car that I want to drive again...

Congratulations.

I'm in the process of ordering intake parts to do my swap. Was going to replace the injectors so this will be done at the same time. This and the elec. fan are the two major things on the list.

[DUDMD]

I have some awesome numbers for you guys, my friend's 540i/6 was one the dyno today and put down some good numbers. His car had no stacks manifold, therefor can probably put down a little bit more with the stacks. I won't spoil the number, I'll start a new thread about it in a few hours or tomorrow morning.

[bubba966]

Congratulations.

I'm in the process of ordering intake parts to do my swap. Was going to replace the injectors so this will be done at the same time. This and the elec. fan are the two major things on the list.

Was nice to get one on my first look for one. I don't see many E32's/E34's in the yards up here. And this was only the second M60 based car I'd seen. Was worried that it might've been gone already since it was sitting in the yard for 3 weeks. Luckily you don't ever need to replace a bad manifold so I guess no one wanted it. The rest of the car was pretty well picked over. And I don't think the price was too bad at $35.

Now to find one of these M62 TB's. If I'm getting it right it'd be of a M62NV, so 96-98 model year cars, right? Probably have to grab that off eBay or the like as they certainly don't have cars that new in our yards....

[BruinBimmer]

All they had was a 735 and 750 at the yard I went to... Guess I have sit and wait as all of you torment me with your lucky finds...

[MazDuh]

The thing with welding on a throttle plate... why would you go through the effort to disassemble the throttle body, weld up the holes, and then have to center the plate...when you can just use a $40 M62B44 Throttle body and its the same thing, probably better than the finished product.

You guys are right, you'll need a 96-98 NV B44 throttle body. The 99+ Vanos are drive by wire.

I'll have some comparison pics side by side but the housing is identical.

-Eric

[5mall5nail5]

Most throttle plates are brass lol

[Layne]

The thing with welding on a throttle plate... why would you go through the effort to disassemble the throttle body, weld up the holes, and then have to center the plate...when you can just use a $40 M62B44 Throttle body and its the same thing, probably better than the finished product.

You guys are right, you'll need a 96-98 NV B44 throttle body. The 99+ Vanos are drive by wire.

I'll have some comparison pics side by side but the housing is identical.

-Eric

I could grab my spare TB from the garage and silver solder (not weld) up the holes in 5 minutes for $0. Suit yourself.

[K Fox]

I could grab my spare TB from the garage and silver solder (not weld) up the holes in 5 minutes for $0. Suit yourself.

^^ This was kinda the answer I was after. And it becomes especially important/useful when you don't have local junkyards with the needed donor cars handy to grab TB's from...

Fox

[Layne]

If you were to remove the wedges from a B40 TB it would make the car tend to lurch off idle.

How does the B44 TB prevent this? Anyone got pictures of it?

[SchnellerE34]

Just picked up a manifold from a 9/93 E32 740i with velocity stacks. Picked up the B44 TB earlier and going to add an oil catch can as well. Should run pretty good once installed. Paid $31.00 after tax and fees

[bubba966]

The thing with welding on a throttle plate... why would you go through the effort to disassemble the throttle body, weld up the holes, and then have to center the plate...when you can just use a $40 M62B44 Throttle body and its the same thing, probably better than the finished product.

You guys are right, you'll need a 96-98 NV B44 throttle body. The 99+ Vanos are drive by wire.

Where are you finding $40 M62NV TB's for $40? Only ones I was seeing were in the $125-$150 range. And for $150 I'd say f'it and get a new one for like $270 or so.

Can anyone confirm for me the proper part # for the M62NV TB that we're talking about? Is it #13541741671?

And anyone have any luck getting the built up crap off the inside of the runners? I sprayed mine down w/oil eater then hosed it off real good. Cleaned it up pretty damn nicely but did almost nothing to the built up crap in the runners. Right now it looks like it's brand new looking at the outside. Only until you look in the runners do you see it's not.

[K Fox]

And anyone have any luck getting the built up crap off the inside of the runners? I sprayed mine down w/oil eater then hosed it off real good. Cleaned it up pretty damn nicely but did almost nothing to the built up crap in the runners. Right now it looks like it's brand new looking at the outside. Only until you look in the runners do you see it's not.

Simple green, a plastic brush, and elbow grease. Worked wonders for mine. It helps if you go to one of the big stores and buy a big tupperware container - like one of the storage bins - that the intake can fit in. I filled that halfway with hot water, and made a diluted mixture of simple green. I then had a bottle of full strength Green for trouble areas - if you get a stubborn runner just spray it with the full strength stuff and give it a minute (by that point, I needed the minute too ) and they'll come clean.

Fox