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Came across this thread a good while back, after which I found myself one of the earlier M60 intakes and fitted it when I changed all the intake gaskets. I honestly can't really say it feels any better or stronger with the changed intake. What I can say though is that the intake noise is noticeably louder than it was before.....strange really.
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I did the same with my 540i/6, tried an early velocity stack manifold and it actually felt like it lost some low end torque and throttle response compared to the late '95 intake with the curved bellmouth. Installed my OE intake and the torque returned.
Member
Did you reset the adaptations after installing the new manifold? It takes some time for the DME to get used to anything that can affect the VE curve. If its running lean on roll on it certainly would feel weak compared to how it would feel with a proper AFR with slightly less flow.
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I can see how the computer would adjust fuel trims in the name of finding 14.7:1 AFR on cruise over a period of time, but the VE is a fixed map for open loop. Now, I do know the Motronic 3.3 does use open loop for WOT. Any changes to that would be a custom tune on an EPROM.Originally Posted by nonturbodan
However, I am willing to give the intake another try seeing as A) it was expensive and B) I really wanted to like it. I was planning on trying the velocity stack intake on my future B44/B40 hybrid motor.
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I was hoping that there would have been some actual testing done after reading 19 pages, lol. Im getting my late fathers 97 740i so it is the pre vanos engine, which would be good for the old intake swap. Im planning on doing a lot of maintenance and restoration atuff on it over the next few years, while its apart Id like to swap it over to the "better" intake while theres room and have the old intake off anyway.
On a similar note, the Mopar guys mod their intakes on the 360 Magnum V8 thats styled very similarly to the BMW intake except its aluminum. They cut back the openings so the runners are a little shorter. Its good for some upper rpm power with of course some low end loss of torque. I never did see a dyno run done but the same as here, poeple state they can feel a difference but some of that is psychological Im sure.
Last edited by MarkZ28; 04-01-2015 at 12:15 AM.
Member
What a long winded read.
Sounds like too much effort for no gains other than having fresh intake gaskets and no more vacuum leaks.
I'd be more interested in results from removing the wedge on the T/B, that looks like a bigger restriction than anything else.
Unhelpful Member
Just wondering if you ever found the data from the rest of the pulls. I'm not giving my hopes up, just curious about the data. Hell, I've been sitting on a v-stack manifold for a couple years, and I'm only getting around to it now because I need to fix a vacuum leak to pass smog anyways.
At the very least, the data points we have pretty much suggest you don't really lose power from switching from late M60 to early M60 vstack manifold. And nonturbodan saying that there is more intake noise is a nice plus.
Member
I can tell you this for sure, the late M60 manifold is worse than the M62 manifold. Between the M62 manifold and the early M60 manifold I don't know which would make more power. If the intake growl is worth it, do it. You'll definitely notice that. Power gains/losses in the 10-15 HP range are too small to detect by my butt dyno at the M60 power level. It is definitely possible that the early M60 manifold would require retuning to really run well. I always had a lean roll-on condition with mine but that could be just the way the stock chip is mapped.
The only thing I would consider a drawback to the early M60 manifold is the slightly longer runners. The little bell adds a half inch to each runner, which is about a 3% difference. That will slightly diminish top end power but will boost low end and midrange unless the tune is so far off it leans out.
Last edited by nonturbodan; 12-29-2015 at 08:29 PM.
Member
I've been swapping back and forth between the late M60 curved bellmouth and early M60 velocity stacks intake manifold over the last several months. I've swapped back and forth 6 times for some A/B comparisons.
I have a wideband o2 sensor & gauge installed on my 540i/6. I also have an Ostrich 2.0 chip emulator and have bounced back and forth between a stock tune and a performance tune from DUDMD. Granted, I keep my tunes in open loop.
For sure, without a doubt the later curved bellmouth intake manifold out performs the velocity stack intake... on my car ;-)
Except for in one category. The velocity stacks intake manifold has a much better idle. On my wideband I can watch AFR's go richer with the velocity stack intake. Thus flowing less air into the engine. Even after making fueling adjustments to the tune to compensate, it just simply doesn't have the torque and pull as the late manifold.
Last edited by Mykk; 01-13-2016 at 08:33 AM.
Member
1995 540i/6 here.
I can't believe I read this entire thread from 6 years ago, and I don't know more than I did! I'm replacing the PCV and probably the intake manifold and TB gaskets in the next few weeks. Did any of the other testers ever check in with results? Should I be looking for an M60B40 manifold? What about the M62 throttle body?
Member
I love that you replied to a 6+ year old thread but I'm here for it, and hope the old forums get a revival. If you can get your hands on a velocity stack early m60b40 manifold, awesome, use it and love it and smooth out the rest of the intake system, and build a less restrictive exhaust, tune, you'll get great results. If you cant find a velocity stack manifold, just get the m62 non vanos manifold. It has the large runners without the velocity stacks and moves a great deal of air as well, albeit with more turbulence.
Member
The thread is back from the dead! This debate always makes me laugh, so on the 0.001% chance someone ever dyno tests all the manifolds back-to-back I'm placing my bet now for the record that the early M62 non-vanos intake will make the most power
And full disclosure - both my m60 cars have the early m60 velocity stack intake manifold. Of the 3 (maybe 4) variants of the wide runner manifolds that all have the same 11611729529(8) part number, the early M62 version seems like it has the best combo between smooth radius runner inlets and shorter total runner length, but more importantly you get the nice provisions for mounting the PCV gas distribution tube that runs through the center of the manifold. The late production e34 540i manifold "looks" like the worst design of the bunch.
That being said, I'm also curious what variant/design was originally fitted to the earliest E38 740s that had the M60 engine?
Last edited by m60power; 06-07-2023 at 08:27 PM.
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