E46 Can bus project.

[bry195]

You mention E36. If you understand how that works the E46 is similar. But the signal comes from the can bus instead of the injector pulse width. Or in other words the IKE calculates the MPG using the wheel speed input and injector pulse width. When using an IKE on the bench it has to have something on the speedometer and Tach and receive an indication of amount of fuel being used at that moment (More or less the injector pulse width). I can't remember my E36 gauges well anymore. But I think the E46 inverted which side of the gauge the MPG needle rests on. So at zero speed the needle swings all the way to the other end. A bit annoying but that's how it is. On the Can bus the amount of fuel being consumed isn't a flat number. It's the difference between two numbers factoring in the time between the time both numbers were received. We had a difficult time getting the needle to stabilize due to timing differences. Since then we've improved our timing and I think it should work perfect. but not tried it. Maybe this winter when I'm not working on my cars because of the cold I'll try it again :-)

ah ok. this is where I was off. so im shaping the signals from a standalone to the cluster.

I can trick the tach into showing what I want. When I did this MPG needle buried itself to the right.
so I sent it a 50% duty (same as tach) and went through the entire bandwidth of the output (Hz). no results.
it makes total sense that I need tach, speed, injector duty. Speed is hardwired to the tach.
I have injector duty native to the control. no problem and I'll use it for the mpg calc.
My hope is that the speedo logic supresses MPG until it gets speed and manages the pulses I give it but only while in motion.
then I can calibrate MPG to whatever.
Maybe I'll put the car on the lift and try a range of pulses with the wheels spinning.
Thanks for the input. sorrry it isnt CAN but I read the entire thing in a night thinking the next post you would have the math for MPG.
If I calibrate the gauge to my hardwire setup I'll share it so you can setup some sort of deterministic relationship to the pulses and the timing of your telegram.
can you create a cyclic telegram and work all of the low priority stuff around the telegram timing?
can you fudge the calculated numbers based on when you are able to transmit if you are stuck with waiting for the bus to free up?

[bry195]

econometer- its close to 1 pulse per mph and the econo scale will follow the MPH. meaning something like 25mph equals 25mpg. you get nothing until the speedo reads something. Dont forget this is pulses to the gauge cluster from the DME on a 6 cylinder m52. hopefully you can rearrange the numbers to come up with a can message that approximates this relationship.

[turboguy82]

This message is for thaniel...
I have a 2003 Z4 2.5i that I would really like to swap an ls1 into. I already have the engine, trans, harness, and ecu for the ls1. My question is do you still make the setup to run the electronics? And if so, what kind of price are you asking to make another that would work on my car?

[Thaniel]

This message is for thaniel...
I have a 2003 Z4 2.5i that I would really like to swap an ls1 into. I already have the engine, trans, harness, and ecu for the ls1. My question is do you still make the setup to run the electronics? And if so, what kind of price are you asking to make another that would work on my car?

Yes we can make more modules like we have for some other cars. Typically we've been charging $150. Pm or e-mail me through the forum if interested and we can go over details.

[blackknight530i]

Has anyone considered trying to get the later FXX cluster working on pre-e90 cars? The F10 cluster looks very close to the same dimensions and shape as the e39 cluster and I was wondering how hard it would be to translate the engine/trans signals to work with it.

[joekitch]

Has anyone considered trying to get the later FXX cluster working on pre-e90 cars? The F10 cluster looks very close to the same dimensions and shape as the e39 cluster and I was wondering how hard it would be to translate the engine/trans signals to work with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM1Ckgz7Rcc

that sounds like an ambitious but very rewarding potential project...the f10 cluster and its sort of half-real-half-digital setup is really damn slick.
although wouldnt it have to be really heavily integrated with all the car's systems? for all kinds of stuff from speed/tach to fuel level to status of doors and warnings and all that stuff

[blackknight530i]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM1Ckgz7Rcc

that sounds like an ambitious but very rewarding potential project...the f10 cluster and its sort of half-real-half-digital setup is really damn slick.
although wouldnt it have to be really heavily integrated with all the car's systems? for all kinds of stuff from speed/tach to fuel level to status of doors and warnings and all that stuff

My thought is that it would just be can message translation. That's very similar to what this topic deals with. I also already have a 2014 NBT nav system retrofitted to my car as well, so some of those things are already translated.

[TerraPhantm]

Some of it would have to be translated from the k-bus rather than the can-bus, but it should be doable.

[blackknight530i]

Some of it would have to be translated from the k-bus rather than the can-bus, but it should be doable.

You mean things like the doors and such? I agree, but as easy as the retrofit guys are making the ibus work with the nbt, I bet the k bus is next. I don't expect DSC settings and such to work obviously, but I think the basics should work with a bit of translation. I can start a separate topic somewhere else if this isn't relevant here. I just figured if these guys are taking can messages from a LS motor and converting them to e46 messages, that it could be figured out here.

[TerraPhantm]

You mean things like the doors and such? I agree, but as easy as the retrofit guys are making the ibus work with the nbt, I bet the k bus is next. I don't expect DSC settings and such to work obviously, but I think the basics should work with a bit of translation. I can start a separate topic somewhere else if this isn't relevant here. I just figured if these guys are taking can messages from a LS motor and converting them to e46 messages, that it could be figured out here.

Doors and lights mostly. So if you want for example your high beam indicator, fog light indicators, turn signal indicators, and even the backlighting to work, you'll have to translate all of those k-bus messages to the K-CAN/K-CAN2 format. Which isn't impossible, but I haven't delved into the i/k-busses at all. Thankfully those messages are consistent across BMWs of the same generation. E39 cluster works fine with my E46 LCM for example

The engine side is relatively easy to take care of.

Edit: Apparently LCM sits on the Ibus in the e39. I was still thinking in e46 mode where there is only a K-bus

[MadToha]

-B4 Oil Temp [Temp in C = hex2dec(byte04) - 48.373]

Hi!
Is it possible to get it using ELM327?

[Thaniel]

Hi!
Is it possible to get it using ELM327?

Let me rephrase to ensure we are talking about the same thing.

Is it possible to get the can data stream from an E46 using an ELM327. In theory yes. The typical ELM327 includes a MCP2551 chip in it to interface with can bus. But not using the OBDII port. There is no can bus connection to the OBDII port.

Another way to ask it would be. Can I use an ELM327 using OBDII commands using ISO protocol to get the Oil temperature? I don't know. Odds are no as it's not a common OBDII command. I've not been able to get it from GM engines using OBDII commands.

Thaniel

[MadToha]

It seems that Bimmerforums server blocks my home IP, replied here:

1. If there is no CAN connection in OBD-II port, how did I get ELM327 connected to MS43 via OBD-II?



But I don't receive any live-data using ELM's "AT MA" command in terminal. What could be wrong?

2. Right. I can't get oil temp using "01 5C" OBD PID.

[mdrobnak]

Because ODB-II != CAN. There are a few methods to do standard OBD-II, and your device is able to speak the method that BMW uses. (I forget the details, I want to say VPW for GM, and I forget the version for Ford, nor the one for European cars)...

[OKsweetrides]

Let me rephrase to ensure we are talking about the same thing.

Is it possible to get the can data stream from an E46 using an ELM327. In theory yes. The typical ELM327 includes a MCP2551 chip in it to interface with can bus. But not using the OBDII port. There is no can bus connection to the OBDII port.

Another way to ask it would be. Can I use an ELM327 using OBDII commands using ISO protocol to get the Oil temperature? I don't know. Odds are no as it's not a common OBDII command. I've not been able to get it from GM engines using OBDII commands.

Thaniel

I don't think you can easily ask obd2 commands for the non-standard commands (gm mode 22). It looks to require a reshuffle of the byte order within the 8 byte query and response to account for the specific PID's. I needa take a peak at the torque app and see how it pulls my oil temperature and ac pressure no issue. But this the GM protocol set, for bmw... has there been anyone to build a non-standard PID list?

[Thaniel]

I don't think you can easily ask obd2 commands for the non-standard commands (gm mode 22). It looks to require a reshuffle of the byte order within the 8 byte query and response to account for the specific PID's. I needa take a peak at the torque app and see how it pulls my oil temperature and ac pressure no issue. But this the GM protocol set, for bmw... has there been anyone to build a non-standard PID list?

If there is a list it'd be in this section of the forum http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/fo...ostic-Software (There is no OBDII stuff on an E46 can bus.)

However if I were trying to access that kind of information on a BMW I'd use TXD1 (Also goes by DS2) not TXDII (OBDII). BMW doesn't use OBDII for diagnostics. They use TXD1. Software like INPA and DIS etc. use TXD1 and there is a LOT more information available on it. Can issue commands to devices. Lots of fun stuff. Only poked at it a bit myself. The Can bus has kept me busy enough.

Thaniel.

[ssburns]

I'm not sure I completely understand where the conversation is at this point, but I will say that you can get a lot through the GM OBD connector. HPTuners uses PID's for logging and there are a quite a few PID's available.

[MadToha]

Sorry, I was sure that ELM327 is CAN-only-reader and that ISO 9141-2 is CAN standard. Also I was misled by a twisted-pair cable in OBD2 socket. My bad
But anyway, I can't find oil temperature message while sniffing CAN-BUS from MS43 DME to non-M3 IKE.
WDS says that IKE calculates oil temp using coolant temp, outside temp and other factors.
What is the truth?

[PCarroll]

One thing I found useful was to download AiM RaceStudio 2. They have a bunch of the CAN definitions in XML files. Gives some clues. Reading Italian helps.

[Thaniel]

Sorry, I was sure that ELM327 is CAN-only-reader and that ISO 9141-2 is CAN standard. Also I was misled by a twisted-pair cable in OBD2 socket. My bad
But anyway, I can't find oil temperature message while sniffing CAN-BUS from MS43 DME to non-M3 IKE.
WDS says that IKE calculates oil temp using coolant temp, outside temp and other factors.
What is the truth?

Post a copy of the Can bus data stream you are getting. The ELM is not friendly to use for can data streaming. You may be missing the headers or other bytes.

One thing I found useful was to download AiM RaceStudio 2. They have a bunch of the CAN definitions in XML files. Gives some clues. Reading Italian helps.

I think we have Most of those ARBID's on page 1 of this thread. If I've missed any let me know. and I can update it.

[Hiboostmotorspo]

How can I get on to you to purchase one of these, I'm looking for analog-can

[Thaniel]

How can I get on to you to purchase one of these, I'm looking for analog-can

Sent you an email. We can discuss particulars.

[DUAL PIPE]

Does sparkfun can bus shield support K-Line?
In my OBD II plug, pin 6 and 14 are missing. I have only K-Line.

[Thaniel]

No.

Yah no e46's have can bus at the obdii port. Unless you add it yourself.

[DUAL PIPE]

I was trying on E90. Anyway also E90 pre restyling does not have can bus.