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Thread: E46 Can bus project.

  1. #26
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    Sounds like we are getting close! I'll try to get some driving data logged this afternoon (things have just been really busy this week) so you have some MPH data to work with.
    Chris

  2. #27
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    wow, some really cool progress! You guys rock!
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimerok View Post
    wow, some really cool progress! You guys rock!
    Thank you for the comment. It is nice to see some progress.

    Update:
    To verify the data suspected of updating the MPG gage needed an speed signal input. Found that the speed signal doesn't come on the can bus but is a seperate variable frequency pulse (50% duty cycle) from the ABS computer. So grabbed our trusty propeller microcontroller and wired it up to the speed signal input. which resulted in: See attached picture.

    Notice the check engine is off. MPH reading, tach, temp and MPG gage. Bad thing is still don't quite have a handle on the MPG gage. Can make it jump perodically but haven't managed to control it. The instrument cluster seems to show the value then note that something isn't right and then shuts down the gage. Found if I feed conflicting signals of various types it'll do that to the other gages as well. Since part of my hunting for what does what involved "see what happens when we change this value" we get some interesting results. Still working on it but so far no luck isolating exactly what is doing what.

    Will spend some more time looking at the data streams the other members have supplied. I can't tell you how much time I've already spent on this.... but it's interesting and keeps me out of trouble.
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  4. #29
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    Even though this stuff is way over my head, i think its badass that you are experimenting with this. To me it just seems foreign, like trying to learn chinese on my own.

    Would be awesome to find somebody in the industry that does this kind of stuff.....don't know if they'd be an Electrical Engineer or .....some other kind of engineer....hell i don't even know where one could find those guys!

    keep at it. It's interesting to see what you are getting it to do, even though i am cluess how you are doing it.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hefftone View Post
    keep at it. It's interesting to see what you are getting it to do,.
    Thank you for the comment. Always glad to see others are interested:

    Update: From analyzing the data. Verified 0x329 B5 is the throttle position (drivers wish) and B6 is kick down switch. Values for B5 is 00 for no throttle and FE for full throttle. B6 kick down switch 0 is off 4 is on (kick down).

    In other news I got tired of my very poor connections to the cluster. Felt like evertime I moved it around I was risking shorting something. Found that the extra headers I had fit perfectly over the pins. Solder on some wire and ran it all to a bread board. I can now connect up to whatever I like quite easily now. Since I could I turned off a few more warning lights. Stuck with the ABS and brake pad wear (of all things). Oh and the low fuel. Now I'm back to trying different values again to see if I can unlock the key to the MPG gauge.

    Thaniel
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
    Thank you for the comment. Always glad to see others are interested:
    I've been watching this thread like a hawk to see your progress. It's exciting to see the progress you've made so far.

    This will be a necessary evil for us engine swapper types to conquer in the future. Thank goodness for those such as yourself who have the patience and skill to figure out this blackbox voodoo magic!!!

  7. #32
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    Great work/progress Thaniel and others. Thanks for sharing.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
    Build Thread
    The chassis must always be regarded as a means to an end and never as an end itself

  8. #33
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    Thank you for the comments. Knowing others are interested helps keep my interest in staring at Graph after Graph and line after line of Data. Before I forget at the end of post 1 I have been trying to summarize the information I've found or verified. I try not to put my speculation there but may write more of my guess in posts until I can verify.

    To be honest up to today I had mostly only verified data that others had decoded. Today I think I'm adding something that hadn't been found before.

    But first the update
    I've been chasing the MPG values and how to make the gage work. In my testing it seems the 0x545 value may control many of the warning lights. Plugging in various values I've managed to turn on and off many of the warning lights and the cruise light. Still haven't narrowed it down exactly yet. And still can't get steady info to show on the MPG gauge.

    Thought perhaps the fuel gauge not reading could cause a problem. In looking up the fuel gauge found the fuel level is sent over can as well. Humm sounds like fun. So I wired up some potentimeters to the wires for the fuel guage (thanks to my bread board set up this is no problem) and listened to the can bus while changing them and watching the fuel guage.

    While capturing all that I noticed some of the other values changing. Tracked those a bit and managed to isolate not only the fuel level on the can but the odometer reading and a timer that runs non stop even with key off (until the battery battery power is lost). So here: the new information.

    ARBID: 0x613
    __B0,B1 are the Odometer reading. (LSB B0, MSB B3) Convert from Hex to Decimal. Multiply by 10 and that is Odometer in Km (Convert the Km reading to Miles if needed)
    __B2 is fuel level. Full being hex 39 Fuel light comes on at hex 8 (this converted to decimal is the number or liters of fuel). Then values jump to hex 87 (or so) and then goes down to hex 80 being empty.
    __B3,B4 (B4 the MSB) is a running clock in minutes since last time battery power was lost.

    I can hear you now. Ok so what? We want to control the cluster not read the data from it. Well those are 5 bytes I no longer have to look at for data. Been looking for the A/C signal and I'm confident it's in 0x613 or 0x615. Thinking it's 0x615 B0 now. Just have to do a bit more analysis. This is kind of like a jigsaw puzzle. the more pieces that fit in the easier it gets.

    Oh if I haven't mentioned before I think 0x43B and 0x43F come from the Autotrans. 1F5 looks to be the steering sensor. 0x153 D2,D1 may be a speed signal. Some of the others are still looking strange. I'll look at it a bit longer then may post some graphs and we can play. Guess what this signal is together

    Thaniel
    Last edited by Thaniel; 09-30-2012 at 09:50 AM.

  9. #34
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    Dude, I seriously love how you are applying your OCD! To control the cluster, specifically the MPG gauge, you need input from every variable needed to dynamically calculate/estimate MPG AND a formula to estimate the things that aren't directly measured/read. This seems kinda complicated. It would seem to my novice head that this will be the trickiest one to control. The others may come along fairly quickly as they are much simpler than the MPG gauge due to fewer variables.. Am I crazy to think you have most of this already figured out and are trying to keep us in suspense until you have it 100% nailed down?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmil1974 View Post
    Dude, I seriously love how you are applying your OCD!
    I have to do something to keep sane.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmil1974 View Post
    Am I crazy to think you have most of this already figured out and are trying to keep us in suspense until you have it 100% nailed down?
    You'd only be satisfied with a 100% solution right?? No. Not really drawing it out. I post every bit of info I figure out as I go. And it's only been a couple of months.

    The BMW side is the big unknown. The LS1 side isn't unusual. There are many devices already that interface. I think it's a farily straight forward intergration. But my LS1 is something like 4000 miles away from me so I've got nothing to test LS1 signals with. I do have the E46 cluster so I keep chipping away.

    But your point is valid. No. I don't have to get 100% of all the can bus data figured out before I move on another phase. But need a better grip on the warning lights and am not ready to give up on the MPG gauge yet. Not hit a wall yet so think I'll keep going on it a bit more.

    Update:
    Think I have the MPG figured out. Just have to sort out the scale and the right messages but these definately appear to be the right bits. 0x545 D1 (LSB) D2 (MSB). It appears it's a steady stream of data and the slope of the line is equal to the fuel used. That and a speed signal give the MPG.



    More update: (My in laws are visiting this week so I have extra time. If you were wondering). Just as I mentioned it the more identified the easier it seems to get.

    More values in the 0x545 ID
    B0: contains Check engine light (binary 10), Cruise light (binary 1000), EML (binary 10000). combinations work to get multiple lights
    In other words to turn on all three send binary 11010.

    Already mentioned
    B1,B2: Fuel consumption (B1 LSB, MSB B2). Values is the rate of change. Values just cycle from 0 to FFFF then jump to zero and start over.

    B3 Overheat light (binary 1000, Hex 08). Yes the overheat light is controlled seperate from the needle. Had wanted to get this one for sure.

    the Red ! warning light seems to be 0x153 when B0=40. (this may be a different light on USA or other clusters)

    Seems other things can also turn on the lights. But at least the above trigger them. Need to be able to trigger them at the appropriate times. The only can warning light I'm currently stuck with is the ABS light. Which the ABS controls. So I haven't been too worried about it. Hey I have a few more min. Maybe I try that before going to bed.
    Last edited by Thaniel; 03-15-2013 at 08:53 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  11. #36
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    I can only imagine what you could have done if your car was there
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimerok View Post
    I can only imagine what you could have done if your car was there
    No kidding.

  13. #38
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    You guys are great. Though if I had my car I'd probably be wrenching instead of clicking on the computer. This has been working pretty well. zr6sbc and V8Z4 have done a great job of supplying data samples.

    Few more bits of data

    0x329 Byte 6 has not only the kickdown (hex 4) but also the brake switch (hex 1).

    0x1F8 Byte 2 has Brake pressure.

    Thaniel

  14. #39
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    Update:
    Didn't spend as much time on this this week as last week. But did start looking into how it might be hooked to the LS1.

    I'm not a GM expert so I've been reading up on things. Appears the Gen III LSx engines have a serial ouput that would supply the necessary data. Just have to grab that, translate through the microcontroller and spit out the corresponding can message. Researching I've not found many people using the serial ouput for such a thing. A few products sold use it but haven't found too many DIY'ers. If anyone has the details please share. Otherwise it looks like we will have to do to the serial data from the LSx what we did to the can bus data of the BMW. Sample it and Decode.

    Also briefly looked for a premade gateway that we could use. The few I looked at were for Can open and not the automotive can bus. And didn't see one that went between serial and can bus. But again if anyone knows of something post a link and let's look at it.

    After a bit of reading I'm thinking the Ardruino could take the GM serial input in and then spit out can messages via the can bus sheild. Can't test that at the moment as I don't have a serial GM line to test with.

    I did put some time into putting some programming that can send can messages at different rates. Up to this point I'd been sending messages as often as the hardware would allow. It'll need some CPU time to do some of the serial capture and calculations. Seemed to be working but I think I need to get some timing info from the BMW. So added more or less a time stamp in my can bus listener program. Need to test it a bit more but it seems that will grab the info needed.

    Oh I also played a little with the Kbus from the inst cluster. Really doesn't move this project at all but it was interesting. And I did learn some about serial comunication. Perhaps I'll try grabbing the K line with the ardrunio. Currently it's wired more or less straight into my PC.

    Still more to do.
    Last edited by Thaniel; 10-08-2012 at 07:36 AM.

  15. #40
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    Great stuff. If you can sort it out this will be a huge help
    Rob
    Prior projects:
    1998 540i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy Power
    - pictures and details
    1992 325i with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details
    1995 M3 with 6.6 LS2/T56 Chevy power - pictures and details




  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rao View Post
    Great stuff. If you can sort it out this will be a huge help
    What do you mean "IF"...."when" Well I guess sorted out can mean a lot of different things.

    Update for this week:
    I tried to stay focuesed on something useful. So no playing with the Kbus and I also decided the fuel consumption gauge was probably not the most important. So I wrote up a little program where I could turn on and off the check engine, over heat and several other lights by clicking on some buttons while the program ran. Entertaining and useful. But somehow my house guests just didn't see the significance.

    I also had an idea for the RPM sensing using the LS1 tach output (or similar) instead of catching the data off the serial bus. I plan to do an E46 EV and it'll have to grab the RPM signal this way. So implemented that. I'm feeding a pulsed signal at a rate that should be correct from an entirely seperate micro controller. The Arduino senses the signal calculates and RPM. Converts it to the needed hex values and sends it over the can bus. It seems to work pretty well. A few bugs still in it but in truth it appears usable.

    That leaves temperature. In truth this is an easy one. The Arduino has easy ways to sense voltage. A few simple statements to capture a voltage and send that to the instrument cluster. Tie in the signal for the overheat light at a particular value and no problem. I'm using a variable resistor to make a circuit with a varying voltage to sense. Unlike trying to use the E36 instrument cluster to use a different sensor in this setup is simply setting some different values the program code. I'm thinking that a second temperature sender is probably not even necessary. Probably can just tap the lines going to the LS1 temperature sender.

    So anyway bench testing it seems to work reasonably well. I'd do another video but it all looks about the same. The wiring and programming differences are the important parts. But I'll attach a picture of Dr. Frankenstiens workshop .

    Might recognize the potentiometer with paper pointer from the E36 video's. Can bus shield and Arduino stacked together in front of the Inst cluster. Propeller chip on a bread board ot the right. Use that for sending pulses to the Speedometer or in this scenario to the Ardunio (lots of left over wires things on it from previous projects. Bread boards next to the instrument cluster have the wires to the pins in the back of the cluster. This allows easy connecting to them. it has 2 potentiometers to simiulate the 2 fuel senders. A button to change the OBC display. Button to simiulate the "start signal" (doesn't seem to do anything). Couple resistors to make the can bus resistance right. Oh and if you wonder. The OBDII connector with all the aligator clips running to it are to hook the Kbus to the PC's serial port. Not part of the can bus project.

    Thaniel
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  17. #42
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    Thaniel, I wish I could somehow help you with this project. This was the sort of thing I was planning to do with my Land Rover Discovery V8 which incidentally runs a Bosch Motronic ECU. In fact, BMW owned LR at the time hence the mass of similarities between the E46 and my LR.

    My leaning towards a 328Ci with a LS1 brought me to your thread plus others who are playing with the little Arduino made me curious of the possibilities.

    Well done mate!

    Mark

    Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
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    Now looking for a E46 Coupe and get this party started!

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by banarcus View Post
    Thaniel, I wish I could somehow help you with this project. This was the sort of thing I was planning to do with my Land Rover Discovery V8 which incidentally runs a Bosch Motronic ECU. In fact, BMW owned LR at the time hence the mass of similarities between the E46 and my LR.

    My leaning towards a 328Ci with a LS1 brought me to your thread plus others who are playing with the little Arduino made me curious of the possibilities.

    Well done mate!

    Mark

    Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
    The 5.3 is a really good budget options (it's what I'm leaning towards for my Z4) since good condition units can be had for the $250-$500 range (compared to $1500+ for an LS1) and turn out 400rwhp without much trouble.
    Chris

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8Z4 View Post
    The 5.3 is a really good budget options (it's what I'm leaning towards for my Z4) since good condition units can be had for the $250-$500 range (compared to $1500+ for an LS1) and turn out 400rwhp without much trouble.
    The easiest for me is to go for a locally sourced LS1 and T56. All up with PCM and accessories, wiring etc should be no more than $3k. I'll build my own headers given our cars are right hand drive and anything made for the US market won't fit. Tailshaft and engine mounts and steering shaft shouldn't be too hard either.

    I've just realised that E46s use a Siemens DME but the BMW logic is very similar to the Motronic in my Discovery.

    Now I just have to sell the Disco and find a tidy little 325Ci or 328Ci. Keep up the good work Thaniel et al.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by banarcus View Post
    The easiest for me is to go for a locally sourced LS1 and T56. All up with PCM and accessories, wiring etc should be no more than $3k. I'll build my own headers given our cars are right hand drive and anything made for the US market won't fit. Tailshaft and engine mounts and steering shaft shouldn't be too hard either.

    I've just realised that E46s use a Siemens DME but the BMW logic is very similar to the Motronic in my Discovery.

    Now I just have to sell the Disco and find a tidy little 325Ci or 328Ci. Keep up the good work Thaniel et al.
    5.3L is the 324CI LS1. Here they are in lots of 99+ V8 pickups/suvs (which is why it is so dirt cheap).
    Chris

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by banarcus View Post
    I wish I could somehow help you with this project.
    Just dive in. There's room in the pool

    Thank you for your comments. Funny that the Disco II has similarities with the E46. I have 1999 Disco I so just missed the cut off (doesn't have the BOSCH).

    As far as the project goes I'm running out of things to do with just the instrument cluster. Could use to have someone with a Swapped car try out what I have so far. Or some samples of the GM bus to change my program from sensing signals to reading serial data.

    UPDATE for today:
    after reading RAO's thread http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1899207

    I wondered what one of those scanner coders could do with just an instrument cluster. So got one and connected it up. Found that it would list some errors by module not sending CAN if the messages weren't being sent. So I was able to positively identify where a few of the messages were coming from by changing which messages I sent and then checking the errors.

    I also was able to turn off the low oil indicator (not the oil pressure sensor. the amber colored oil Level) and it had a check to turn off the ASC. Turning off the ASC eliminated error in the IKE listing no CAN form ASC and the warning light in the middle of the inst cluster because of it went away. But oddly enough the ABS light is still on bright as ever. I have never gotten that light to turn off.

    one of the reasons I might have never been able to turn off the ABS light is there are different CAN versions. I think the can messages we are interested in for RPM, Temp, MIL are the same on most or all versions from what I can tell. But the ASC/DSC is likely different. Since I have a UK cluster it could be the messages I have from the USA do not contain one of the needed messages. Or could be I don't have things sending right combination of codes. But since I don't plan on removing the ABS modules from the cars I Swap I'm best to just let it go.

    I'll tinker with the program some more but really can't do much more "proof this works" but it does work with a "simulated LS1". Would need someone with a swapped E46 wants to join in the experimenting and testing. That is until Next July. Then I could hook the cluster up to my Ls1 and do more demonstrating, debugging, testing etc.

    Guess I could ask. Anything particular anyone else would like to see me try with the instrument cluster while I'm in a "holding pattern"?

    Thaniel

  22. #47
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    Maybe I should add an update so people don't think this is dead.
    I got sucked into playing with the Kbus again for awhile. Did learn some about serial connections that might help later. I'll brake the update into 2 sections as there are really 2 ways to go with implementing. Analog to can and Serial to can.

    ANALOG to CAN:
    Spent some time refining my Analog to can program. Was having difficulties with blips comming from inconsistant timing of the can sends. Ran across the "interrupt" command and rewrote my RPM sensing section to use that. The program seems to run much quicker and the RPM sensing is nearly dead on at all RPM's. Previously had a bit of a jumpy needle at high RPM's. In addition it seems to have freed up some CPU time and allowed the Can sending to be much more regular. Also due to the more predictable timing the program is stable sending the can messages SLOWER. This is a win win.

    With the improved program the RPM, Temp, MIL, Over heat light are all functioning perfect controlled from external sources (a pulse generator, variable resister and a switch). The timing is now regular enough to get the MPG needle to function with only a slight wiggle. With the car running I doubt anyone would notice. The MPG needle at this point is not being controlled externally. Suppose I could try that later.


    Serial to CAN:
    On the plane did some reading of the SAE documents describing the Class 2 serial bus protocols. Honestly more like skimmed them. It's really boring reading. But it does seem to lay out the information needed. Decoding the data should be much easier than the BMW can bus was.

    Still waiting for my ELM327 from hong kong (they ship to Sweden). Once I get that will see if the Arduino can talk to a car through the ELM327. AND see if the ELM327 can get connect to the Serial bus of an LS1. If I can find an LS1.

    I keep thinking of someway to find a LS1 to talk to here. V8 motors are pretty much nonexistant and Chevy's are even more rare. I finally remembered at a party last year seeing a corvette in the garage at the house. Hummm.... Might be a tough sell to get the owner to let me plug into it. If I get the hardware working I'll ask.

    All for now.

  23. #48
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    Great update. Very nice to see this much of progerss.
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  24. #49
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    This is awesome. Keep up the great work!

  25. #50
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    C'mon man. I got a LS2 waiting for a e46 m3 chassis....
    I'm a ROLEX wear'N
    Diamond ring wear'N
    KISS steal'n
    WHEELIN DEAL'N
    Limousine RIDE'N
    JET PLANE FLY'N , SON OF A GUN!
    And I'm havin a hard time holdin these alligators down!!!!!!
    WHOOOOOO!!!!!!

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