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Thread: Ultra Light 2.2L m10 Turbo Build

  1. #126
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    314
    My Cars
    '81 320i
    Quote Originally Posted by peteWine View Post
    As long as gasoline is available, Josh will not give up on this project. Once fuel is gone, he will be working on building his own refinery.
    Or nuclear reactor/warp drive/hydrogen cell
    -Lou-


    '81 320i, 5spd
    Kaschmir-metallic
    Sunroof, turbine wheels and factory fog lights.

  2. #127
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    northern michigan
    Posts
    222
    My Cars
    95 M3 - 06 X5 3.0
    Quote Originally Posted by 02inTheRockies View Post
    he was the Maestro of pushing the CIS envelope on E21's.
    I learned and was inspired a lot by this guy's CIS tuning posts but it looks like we have now gone different directions.
    It looks like he is going full EFI while I have gone with upgrading my CIS.

    I replaced my 4 cylinder CIS system, other than the injectors, with a Mercedes V8 CIS-E fuel distributor, siamesed the 8 FD lines to my 4 injectors, and AFR control with a MicroSquirt running FrankenCIS for the ultimate CIS setup for basically unlimited and controlable fueling.
    If you would like to see, click the Porsche link in my signature and check the other vids on that channel..
    FrankenCIS has microsquirt CIS tuning solutions for all CIS systems including basic, lambda, and E..

    I am still very much interested in all sorts of CIS tuning so if you have a CIS project thread or questions PM me and invite me to your thread
    Is anyone still "pushing the CIS envelope" around here?

    I thought jrcook, or anyone, might be interested if you want to go big boost and still run CIS.
    Last edited by fasteddie313; 03-14-2019 at 02:04 PM.
    E36 M3 S50 - E53 X5 M54 - 1980 Porsche 931 - 2001 Impreza RS25

  3. #128
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Chicago, IL,United States
    Posts
    252
    My Cars
    1977 BMW 320i
    The FrankenCIS looks interesting. From their website, it looks like they make a WUR replacement that has an electronic injector to regulate control pressure based on a fuel map in MicroSquirt. Is that correct?

  4. #129
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    northern michigan
    Posts
    222
    My Cars
    95 M3 - 06 X5 3.0
    Quote Originally Posted by dreiermann View Post
    The FrankenCIS looks interesting. From their website, it looks like they make a WUR replacement that has an electronic injector to regulate control pressure based on a fuel map in MicroSquirt. Is that correct?
    Yep.. It uses the VE table mapping and everything just like a normal MS. Same logging and tuning and autotune, everything..
    That is one of the main things it can do plus so much else including the other variations of CIS like lambda and E plus everything else a megasquirt usually does like boost control, idle, meth, rev limiters, boost cut, launch, whatever..

    It IS a normal megasquirt and you just put the CIS software on it to turn the normal injector outputs into signals to control CIS, and can always change it back to normal MS..
    It's awesome..

    I'd be happy to talk about it, answer questions, give more links, even get the developer over here to answer Qs if you are really interested..
    Start a thread about it if you want pm me so I see it..
    Last edited by fasteddie313; 03-14-2019 at 05:21 PM.
    E36 M3 S50 - E53 X5 M54 - 1980 Porsche 931 - 2001 Impreza RS25

  5. #130
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,763
    My Cars
    E21 320i, e39 540i/6
    Quote Originally Posted by peteWine View Post
    As long as gasoline is available, Josh will not give up on this project. Once fuel is gone, he will be working on building his own refinery.
    Haha, thanks Pete. Perhaps by then I'll be able to install one of the trash nuclear reactors like on the back to the future delorean. That was CIS fueled, you know. I've had 2 more kids since I started this build, and at this rate if I finish by my 40th birthday I'll be doing well.

    Quote Originally Posted by fasteddie313 View Post
    I learned and was inspired a lot by this guy's CIS tuning posts but it looks like we have now gone different directions.
    It looks like he is going full EFI while I have gone with upgrading my CIS.

    I replaced my 4 cylinder CIS system, other than the injectors, with a Mercedes V8 CIS-E fuel distributor, siamesed the 8 FD lines to my 4 injectors, and AFR control with a MicroSquirt running FrankenCIS for the ultimate CIS setup for basically unlimited and controlable fueling.
    If you would like to see, click the Porsche link in my signature and check the other vids on that channel..
    FrankenCIS has microsquirt CIS tuning solutions for all CIS systems including basic, lambda, and E..

    I am still very much interested in all sorts of CIS tuning so if you have a CIS project thread or questions PM me and invite me to your thread
    Is anyone still "pushing the CIS envelope" around here?

    I thought jrcook, or anyone, might be interested if you want to go big boost and still run CIS.
    Sounds like a pretty sweet setup. The FrankenCIS looks way more capable than the old Unwired Tools UTCIS electronic WUR. I'd love to see more of your setup.

    I've wavered on my own commitment to a full EFI conversion more than a few times. I purchased an MS3 ECU and wiring harness, but have yet to permanently fill my old CIS injector holes or buy injectors and all the other sensors I need. I've concluded I'll always be limited by CIS and want the unlimited flexibility of EFI. I'll eventually get there, I just bought the rest of the parts I need to assemble the long block this week (yup, still haven't even done that). Next step is to machine injector hole plugs, weld them in to the head, and assemble the long block. Cubic sums of money and time from now, maybe I'll be posting up pics of progress and eventually a running car.

    '81 320i turbo | t25, 931 CIS, 240hp, 13.92@100mph | 2.2L m10 Turbo Build | My E21 Videos |

  6. #131
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    northern michigan
    Posts
    222
    My Cars
    95 M3 - 06 X5 3.0
    Quote Originally Posted by jrcook320 View Post
    The FrankenCIS looks way more capable than the old Unwired Tools UTCIS electronic WUR.
    Yes, I believe so too, by leaps and bounds..

    Quote Originally Posted by jrcook320 View Post
    I'd love to see more of your setup.
    Ok, well basically I bought the latest, biggest, and baddest iteration of a CIS fuel distributor from a V8 Mercedes 560 like This One and got the Merc fuel lines and pressure regulator with it..


    Then I grabbed a hunk of aluminum from the junkyard and made it into an adapter to fit the Mercedes upper AFM to my original lower AFM so I didn't have to make all new mounts and plumbing..

    I cleaned everything up very nice before I put it all together..

    Then I mounted and made lines for the Merc external fuel pressure regulator, and feed and return lines, in a place where it would fit and clear stuff, and bent the Merc injector lines around to fit in there and put those 8 lines onto Tees to my 4 original injector lines after repositioning them a bit, similar to the 924 turbo GTS V8 CIS setup..



    And then I hammered and welded up an extension/adapter on my upper airbox housing to fit the massive new AFM to my air filter, as you can see in those pics and this video..

    I made it out of a lawnmower hood, lol..

    Then I added all the usual sensors for fuel injection so MS can see what is going on like wideband, MAP, IAT, coolant temp, etc and installed the black boxes and associated wiring..


    Then I got to tuning for a while.. This was from when I first started the tuning so it looks pretty rough and poorly tuned..


    Tuning was going very well up to my stock spring pressure until I noticed my (supposed to be 3 bar ebay) MAP was maxing out at just a few psi of boost so that is as far as I got last season.. I have a new omnipower 3 bar map ready to go for springtime..

    I have found that the thing tunes like it is supposed to, VEanalyze in megalogviewer works great for autotuning, EGO correction works great, accel enrichment works great, fuel cut overrun works great, it reacts very fast and holds very steady AFRs..

    My VE map is looking something like this..


    I had it tuned pretty well inside that red line (except the 100s in the bottom left aren't right).. I set it overly rich to begin with and leaned it out as I tuned, leaving an overly rich safety boarder around where I haven't got to yet..

    So in the spring when the snow melts I'll put on my new MAP sensor, I am going to move my IAT to just after the intercooler, and go back to tuning some more and start turning up the boost on the new system.. I found my IAT to be terribly incorrect from heatsoak with it in my intake manifold.. On my logs the harder I was running the lower my IAT got from the air cooling my intake manifold and was really killing my idle tune as it sat and the manifold gets hot. So I'm going to put my IAT in my first pipe after my FMIC to actually get an air temp reading..

    I was running 15psi on the old 931 fuel system and am hoping to easily get back there with this new system, and hopefully get up to 20psi as my next goal.. I see no reason why it won't yet..
    I am also running a bigger turbo that I made and a pretty big FMIC..

    I am still running my stock distributor ignition for now and will probably eventually change that to run chevy truck coils with the MS to take over the ignition too so I can tune the ignition and have antilag because I want it for no good reason.

    My wiring harness is is prototype mode so when I get everything right the way I like it I'll make that into a finished product too..

    IIRC the Merc FD is good for something like 500HP worth of fuel at baseline and up to around 700HP worth with this tuning (dropping differential pressure), but on 8 injectors, so it should provide me more fuel than I can ever use even only using 4 injectors..
    My 931 injectors are the same ones the factory used on the GTS that had a 928 V8 FD siamesed to 4 injectors..

    Another cool thing is that if this all fails all I have to do is throw the FD away and put on a fuel rail, pressure regulator, and injectors and the same electronics will run full EFI easily, but I'm playing with CIS because I'm crazy and like to be unique..

    My system is CIS-E and uses NO WUR, but FrankenCIS can do it the WUR way, and the lambda way too.. Lambda and E control via differential pressure is the most precise though with E having the most range all the way to complete fuel cut at any plate position via differential pressure.

    Lambda (frequency valve) is the cheapest to control because it requires no FrankenCIS parts, only direct control from a microsquirt with the free FrankenCIS MS firmware, while WUR control you have to buy the WUR injector block thing, and with E it takes another black box to create the correct MV signal for the DPR from the MS output..

    I would say the main forum home of FrankenCIS is http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-9...rankencis.html
    Reanimotion there is the developer of FrankenCIS. He is a great guy and loves to answer lots of questions and would probably come here to answer Qs if I/we asked him to..

    I didn't want to do this to your thread but you asked


    BTW the 931 lambda FD is an excellent choice for FrankenCIS controlability and I happen to have a good one sitting here tested to flow 330HP worth of fuel..
    What are your power goals Cook?
    Last edited by fasteddie313; 03-15-2019 at 05:41 PM.
    E36 M3 S50 - E53 X5 M54 - 1980 Porsche 931 - 2001 Impreza RS25

  7. #132
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,763
    My Cars
    E21 320i, e39 540i/6
    I'll be satisfied with 300 bhp after initial break-in, but I expect I'll want to keep tuning and dialing things in until I hit closer to the 350 range. it's all going to depend on how the turbo plays with the new displacement, cam, and head work. I don't want to shoot so high I end up with an on/off torque curve and that typically means I'll be giving up a lot of potential top end with a smaller turbo.

    I had no idea the 931 FD could flow that much fuel, I'll need to check that out.

    '81 320i turbo | t25, 931 CIS, 240hp, 13.92@100mph | 2.2L m10 Turbo Build | My E21 Videos |

  8. #133
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    7,444
    My Cars
    1979 323i BMW. 2003 GTI 20 V Turbo
    Josh anything above 300 HP and TQ you are gonna start breaking things like the diff and tranny. That's why I went with a medium case built 3.64 diff. What diff and tranny are you going with?
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


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