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Thread: Ultra Light 2.2L m10 Turbo Build

  1. #1
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    Ultra Light 2.2L m10 Turbo Build

    Well gents, it's been a long time since I've had any project thread cause I haven't had any projects. It's time that changes. A little back ground: last fall I popped the head gasket on my car after accidentally reversing the signal line to my boost controller We just relocated and the car sat all winter while we rented, but we moved into our house last spring and I finally got a work space set up in my new garage:


    I had detonation around the quench pad on #3 and #4:


    I originally planned to just slap a head gasket in, but further investigation revealed many problems with the motor; glazed cylinder walls, failing rod bearings, detonation damaged pistons, and loose wrist pins. It's had a hard life. So, now I'm aiming for a full rebuild. The original plan was to slap a set of 89.5mm flat top Mahle's in and just do a stock rebuild.

    However, I also happen to have this s14 knife edged crank:



    I haven't found a set of used stock s14 rods, new OEM rods and aftermarket rods are around $1k, and I don't want to pay $600-$700 for a set of custom forged pistons. A "standard" custom m10 forged bottom end for a 2.2L would cost over $1700 just for rods and pistons which is way out of the budget, so using the S14 crank was out until I stumbled on another way (thanks to HSVturbo)

    Parts List:
    Wiseco 91mm Ford 4.6L flat top forged pistons, $82.93 each
    Bore: 91.008mm
    Wrist Pin: 22mm
    Compression Height: 30.99mm
    Weight: 339g

    GM Eagle 5710C3D-1 Forged 4340 Quad 4 2.4 rod, $332/ set
    Rod length: 145.034
    Big End Bore: 51.16
    Big End Journal: 48.00
    Pin End Bore: 22.00
    Big End Width: 23.16
    Pin End Width: 23.16
    Weight: 550g

    JE JG1004-3583 rings, $111/set
    Total Seal Piston Rings T3583XX-4 , $162.99/set
    Sealed Power Z44790P rod bearings. $40.99/set

    S14 Rod
    Rod length:......144.00
    Big End Bore:....52.00
    Big End Journal:.48.00
    Pin End Bore:....22.00
    Big End Width:..23.85
    Pin End Width:..23.85

    Deck Height: 217.5mm
    Stroke: 84mm

    This combo will come above 0 deck by .524mm (.021") exactly. Since the rod floats, I think the .69mm difference in thickness is negligible. With a standard or MLS .051" thick head gasket (I've verified standard with my old victor reinz HG), this will yeild .030" quench pad clearance. .040" clearance is usually the tightest you can go, but I've read that the stock rods will allow for .030". I don't know if this is true or not yet. If not, this would require a small amount of minor machining for quench pad clearance, and possibly valve reliefs (though I doubt it). I think that skirt/counterweight clearance will be fine given the likely much smaller counterweights of the S14 compared to the 4.6 (and the rod and stroke length are equally reduced in this combo by about 6mm compared to stock 4.6L)

    Estimated compression ratio:
    91mm x .524mm protrusion above 0 deck = +13.63cc "dome"
    Assuming about 15-25 percent of the surface area will need to be machined down by .010" for .040" for quench pad clearance, this would equate to removing about 1-1.5ccfrom the theoretical dome.

    Head Gasket Bore Diameter: 93mm (s14 hg)
    Compressed Head Gasket Thickness : .051" = 1.3mm
    Chamber Volume: 63cc's
    Piston Dome Volume: -1cc dish
    Piston Deck Clearance (Negative If ABOVE Deck): -.524mm

    This yields about an 8.8:1 CR. To tune this compression ratio to 8.5:1, 4cc's could be milled off the top of the piston. Obviously, I'll CC my chambers to make sure they're all the same and to allow for fine tuning of CR.

    Weight and Balancing:
    I was originally concerned that there wouldn't be enough meat left on this crank to allow for balancing of even an ultra light rotating assembly, so I started looking at component weights:

    Stock s14 144mm rod: ??
    Stock s14 93.4mm piston: ??
    Stock S14 crank: 44lbs (according to Ken Danielson's measurements)

    Stock 89mm flat top piston: ~528 grams
    Stock 135mm rods: ~725 grams.
    Stock 2.0 crank: 38.6 lbs.


    Wiseco 4.6 91mm pistons: 339g
    Eagle quad 4 rods: 550g
    My knife edged S14 crank: 32.2 lbs:


    So, compared to the 2.0, I'm taking 6.4 lbs off the crank, and about .8lbs off EACH piston/rod assembly. The deal breaker on this whole engine build is going to be whether this is easily balanced. I was going to estimate my bob weights and take the crank to the machine shop to see just how far out it will be. But, as I read more about balancing, I don't think an inline 4 with 180 degree opposed counter balance weights would ever need to be balanced in reference to reciprocating/rotating weight of the rods/pistons. Am I correct?

    As long as the rods/pistons are weight matched, and the crank itself is balanced, I'll be in good shape.
    Last edited by jrcook320; 09-04-2012 at 04:35 PM.

    '81 320i turbo | t25, 931 CIS, 250hp, 13.92@100mph | 2.2L m10 Turbo Build | My E21 Videos |

  2. #2
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    subscribed and glad to see you back with a project, Josh!

  3. #3
    uberpanzer's Avatar
    uberpanzer is offline 4 banger's RULE!!! BMW CCA Member
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    Oh this looks to be very interesting....
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    Wow, 6+ pounds difference in the cranks. Got a set of flat top pistons and rods for the M20B27 eta conversion. Don't know if those work for you. They're out of the engine in packed away with the rings still on them. I likely will not be using them. Then you have 2 spare in case you blow anything.....
    I still drive daily with no commute...
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    Nice


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    Going to megasquirt for the fuel system? Im Looking forward to this!!
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christo19 View Post
    Going to megasquirt for the fuel system? Im Looking forward to this!!
    For budgetary reasons, I may or may not switch at this point. I wasn't planning on an engine rebuild at this time. I am upgrading the turbo to a T28:



    This is an S14 SR20 t28, but I may upgrade it with a larger turbine housing from the GTIR T28. S14/gtir hybrid t28's will outflow a GT2860 and are capable of flowing over 350 hp, where as the standard s14 t28 will choke exhaust flow due to the A/R of the housing.

    If I stay with the jet, I'll have to turn the boost down to limit peak hp until I can make the swap. Otherwise, this build will be capable of 350+ hp with the S14/gtir hybrid t28.

    '81 320i turbo | t25, 931 CIS, 250hp, 13.92@100mph | 2.2L m10 Turbo Build | My E21 Videos |

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    Thumbs up

    Subscribed!

  9. #9
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    Josh - I am excited for you - its just the knife edged crank brings back so many memories.

    IIRC M components are specially processed - harded at the Factory, so you really dont need knife edge them, but this build will make more power and you may need to go to the e30 diff.
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  10. #10
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    i have an s14 balancer and m10 timing cover that is machined for the s14 crank if ur interested

  11. #11
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    Definitely watching this thread. Your cis turbo knowledge and info is what got me to turbo my car. You are an inspiration man! Keep it up!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgbmw323 View Post
    IIRC M components are specially processed - harded at the Factory, so you really dont need knife edge them, but this build will make more power and you may need to go to the e30 diff.
    He is planning an 80's 5series rear diff swap in the future.

    Also, I thought knife edging the counter weights was to limit windage. It is not done for durability reasons that I know of.

    Josh, once I talk to Ron (he is on vacation, plan to call him today) and get my head on straight about the balance issue I'll post up here in the interest of completeness in case anyone wants to replicate this build. I looked at some S14 crank pictures and looked at the counterweight design. It appears each rod has it's own counterweights, and while in theory the whole setup should be OK as long as the crank is balanced and all the reciprocating parts weight the same as each other, I worry about bending moments at specific locations in the crank. Ron had a crank do this, can't remember if it was in his inline 6 or in his old V8. It balanced on the balancer, yet ate bearings due to crank flex because of incorrectly placed counterweights. The S14 appears to have the correctly placed counterweights as Ron's late design inline 6 crank does, but I still think his reciprocating weight was "in balance" with his rotating weight. I know on the inline 6 he built a 1cylinder prototype and it balanced perfectly first shot without any machining. The fact that he did that and had it balanced does not seem to shake hands with what you've read on balance of a crank with 180* offset rod journals. I'll get the scoop and post here, but I think the debate is good for learning minds...
    Last edited by TKO383; 08-29-2012 at 01:17 PM.
    '86 IROC-Z Camaro 383/TKO600/C4 IRS

  13. #13
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    Very interesting project, this! I'll be following it!

  14. #14
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    This is awesome! I just might copy you for building the bottom end up in my car again.
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  15. #15
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    I sold that crank to the guy that sold it to you That is a lightened ,detailed
    and knifed crank done by Castillo crank service in ca. The best in the business
    the main reason for all the work lighting it is so it wont break at high rpm. That
    crank was big money and a long wait to get do a search on Castillo crank service and you will see what it went through. I may have a set of rods for it let me look around. It would be well worth it to use. That crank with a super light flywheel is as good as it gets.
    Here is another one I had him do a little different. A little more cut off , he calls it a vee cut.

  16. #16
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    I was very sad when this crank came up for sale only a few days after I bought a regular S14 crank. JR will make good use of it though.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by midlifebmw View Post
    Wow, 6+ pounds difference in the cranks. Got a set of flat top pistons and rods for the M20B27 eta conversion. Don't know if those work for you. They're out of the engine in packed away with the rings still on them. I likely will not be using them. Then you have 2 spare in case you blow anything.....
    and 12 lbs lighter than the stock s14 crank! Those pistons won't come anywhere near working in this combo (tiny m20 bore) and very wrong compression height for the crank and rods.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjgbmw323 View Post
    IIRC M components are specially processed - harded at the Factory, so you really dont need knife edge them, but this build will make more power and you may need to go to the e30 diff.
    The standard 2.0 crank is manufactured the same way as the S14: forged with case hardened journals. The only real difference is the added stroke. Knife edging has nothing to do with this anyway, it's all about a lighter rotating assembly and windage.

    Quote Originally Posted by hcetretsam View Post
    i have an s14 balancer and m10 timing cover that is machined for the s14 crank if ur interested
    I'm pretty sure this crank is already turned to accept the m10 pully, so it will fit the stock m10 timing cover. If I find out otherwise, I'll look you up. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by TKO383 View Post
    He is planning an 80's 5series rear diff swap in the future.

    Also, I thought knife edging the counter weights was to limit windage. It is not done for durability reasons that I know of.

    Josh, once I talk to Ron (he is on vacation, plan to call him today) and get my head on straight about the balance issue I'll post up here in the interest of completeness in case anyone wants to replicate this build. I looked at some S14 crank pictures and looked at the counterweight design. It appears each rod has it's own counterweights, and while in theory the whole setup should be OK as long as the crank is balanced and all the reciprocating parts weight the same as each other, I worry about bending moments at specific locations in the crank. Ron had a crank do this, can't remember if it was in his inline 6 or in his old V8. It balanced on the balancer, yet ate bearings due to crank flex because of incorrectly placed counterweights. The S14 appears to have the correctly placed counterweights as Ron's late design inline 6 crank does, but I still think his reciprocating weight was "in balance" with his rotating weight. I know on the inline 6 he built a 1cylinder prototype and it balanced perfectly first shot without any machining. The fact that he did that and had it balanced does not seem to shake hands with what you've read on balance of a crank with 180* offset rod journals. I'll get the scoop and post here, but I think the debate is good for learning minds...
    I may do an e30 diff swap and stay 4 lug, or eventually do a complete e28 rear subframe swap and convert to 5 lug and run either 16" or 17" style 5's. Who knows. For now, the car will get a rebuilt 3.45 LSD until it tacos. With my puny, slippery little 205/50r15 dunlop dz101's, I won't hook up enough to have to worry about grenading a diff.

    What engine was the straight 6? It sounds like this was due to harmonics more than balancing. Did he run a harmonic balancer? Was it a wild build that pushed it outside of stock limitations (weight, revs, etc that would change the harmonics or make it run through a natural frequency that it otherwise wouldn't have)? Did he balance with the balancer bolted on? A forged crank 4 cylinder will have very different harmonics than a long cranked straight 6 and usually doesn't need a harmonic balancer. The m10/s14 doesn't.

    Also, keep in mind these cranks (and stock rods) are forged and are extremely robust in stock form. A stock 2.0 m10 bottom end (rods and crank) is said to hold ~500hp before there are any issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by hdx View Post
    I sold that crank to the guy that sold it to you That is a lightened ,detailed
    and knifed crank done by Castillo crank service in ca. The best in the business
    the main reason for all the work lighting it is so it wont break at high rpm. That
    crank was big money and a long wait to get do a search on Castillo crank service and you will see what it went through. I may have a set of rods for it let me look around. It would be well worth it to use. That crank with a super light flywheel is as good as it gets.
    Here is another one I had him do a little different. A little more cut off , he calls it a vee cut.
    Wow, that's great to know a little more about it. What's the history of this crank? What combo was it run with? What car was it in? the e21 track car? How long was it run? Just curious.

    It's been turned first undersize on the mains and the #1 journal has a light score that catches a nail. Planning on having it ground to 2nd undersize.

    HDX, one more question: I see signs of welding on the outer most portion of the rod journals. Is this still a standard 84mm stroke, or has it been re-stroked to something larger?

    It looks like Castillo's finish work has improved significantly since he worked on this crank (unfinished welds, apparently inconsistent knife edge profile, and rough deburring.) How much did it cost to have this done at the time?
    Last edited by jrcook320; 08-29-2012 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    '81 320i turbo | t25, 931 CIS, 250hp, 13.92@100mph | 2.2L m10 Turbo Build | My E21 Videos |

  18. #18
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    That crank is actually a offset welded m10 2.0 It was done way back in the
    day when s14 cranks were brand new. It was ran in a 2002 race car for about
    10 hours 13.1 compression dry sump twin carb high rpm race motor. Cost
    back in the day was 1000.00 plus the crank.

  19. #19
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    God yes. That is all.
    "The most important thing is balance." - KT

  20. #20
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    So you had failing rod bearings also..if possible, can you post a picture of those for reference/learning material? I take it that you had a knock from those? Also, I'd like to see a pic of the glazing on the walls.

    I rebuilt my 1.8 completely in 2006 and while she's still running strong, I keep kicking around the idea of going with the 2.0L crank and custom JE's to match the crank & head combo. It would be helpful to look at my bearings/cylinders and check the conditions. In my case, when I started the project, there was a huge knock, and ALL bearings showed copper, so that was an easy smoking gun...

  21. #21
    GGray's Avatar
    GGray is offline Did someone say racetrack BMW CCA Member
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    I had Castillo do a S14 2.5 crank from a 2.3 full race crank. Looked nicer than the OEM 2.5 crank I had.

    intresting combination.
    Gary Gray



    If you can take it apart you can make it faster!

  22. #22
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    Nice set up

  23. #23
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    Sick build man. Just browsing the ole e21 forums lately and saw this.

    Just a note the S14s all have crank dampeners / harmonic balancer. Even the early and late DTM cars pulling 11,500rpm had serpentine balancers.

    late DTM version


    a google quickie on 2.2 m10s found Steve's page http://77e21.info/strokerbuildcrankpulley.htm
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  24. #24
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    Im looking foward to seeing this Build,, I strongly think you should go with a bigger turbo "You know you want to"

  25. #25
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    I just had a thought, since you have your K-jet system so well setup, you might consider megajolt.
    "The most important thing is balance." - KT

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