Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: E30 1987 320i - Not starting after timing belt replacement.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    6
    My Cars
    1987 BMW 320i

    E30 1987 320i - Not starting after timing belt replacement.

    Hi,

    My 1987 e30 320i was running well before I replaced the timing belt, water pump and viscous fan clutch. It will not start now. (Used the Haynes/Bentley manual and 2 online guides to help.

    Drained coolant, removed the radiator, fan, drive-belt, crankshaft pulley, timing belt covers. Rotated the crankshaft (with the original belt still on) so the TDC marks on the camshaft and crankshaft were lined up. Removed the idler/tensioner and the timing belt. Removed and replaced the water pump. Put the new idler/tensioner on and the new timing belt. Rotated the crankshaft through 2 revolutions and checked the TDC marks were correctly aligned, they were. Put everything back together complete with a new fan clutch. Re-filled the coolant.

    The car turns over but doesn't fire now, checked the spark plugs (they spark), and smell of petrol. Can't think why it doesn't want to fire now, the only time that I have turned the crankshaft or camshaft was with a timing belt in place.

    If anybody has any ideas what might be wrong, I would appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    Julian.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Media, Pennsylvania,
    Posts
    4,699
    My Cars
    1991 325i
    leave the plugs out so the fuel evaporates out of there and the cylinders dry out a little, then spray some ether into the intake and give it a shot. Ive seen that sometimes they just dont wanna start and a kick of ether fires em up and then its all good times after that, no idea why that works but its worth a shot.
    1991 BMW 325i(Current Daily) (S52)
    I have carburetors, and I'm not afraid to use them!
    There are always other fish (engines) in the sea (Craigslist)
    Life is about enjoying the engine you are sitting behind.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Officially in Tampa
    Posts
    2,137
    My Cars
    87 Cabrio & 87 ETA
    I dont see where you tightened the new tensioner after rotating the engine, but assuming you did and the belt didnt jump, did you reinstall your CPS ?
    87 Zinno Cabrio 98k Barn Find. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=268987
    87 Lachsilber ETA Time Capsule. bought w 125k from 87yo original owner

    Cabrio deck lid & hinge struts (w sleeves) now for sale. See the link below for more info

    New "made in Europe" seat shocks. PM for details
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ot-Seat-Shocks

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    6
    My Cars
    1987 BMW 320i
    Thanks for the quick responses;

    Rudolph - Will try that tomorrow when it stops raining, hopefully it just wants to but can't.

    Jeffnhiscars - Followed the haynes manual and it said to have the tensioner loose when putting the belt on. Once on, loosen the tensioner and let it take the slack from the belt, then tighten it up.

    I then rotated the engine and checked the TDC marks, lined up so put it back together.

    As for the CPS, I'm assuming this the the sensor that clips in on top of the crankshaft and has a magnet inside that detects the small hole in the crankshaft. This went back as it was - If this wasn't working would the engine management light come on?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,880
    My Cars
    Twin turbo LS E36 M3
    Its either off timing or the cps is no longer working. I dont know if these motors use the cps or cam sensor for ignition timing

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Media, Pennsylvania,
    Posts
    4,699
    My Cars
    1991 325i
    if the crank sensor wasnt working you shouldnt have fuel or spark, but make sure you check that spark is strong, as i had a weak crank sensor that would provide spark but erratically.
    1991 BMW 325i(Current Daily) (S52)
    I have carburetors, and I'm not afraid to use them!
    There are always other fish (engines) in the sea (Craigslist)
    Life is about enjoying the engine you are sitting behind.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Officially in Tampa
    Posts
    2,137
    My Cars
    87 Cabrio & 87 ETA
    Quote Originally Posted by jcampbell120 View Post
    Thanks for the quick responses;
    Jeffnhiscars - Followed the haynes manual and it said to have the tensioner loose when putting the belt on. Once on, loosen the tensioner and let it take the slack from the belt, then tighten it up.

    I then rotated the engine and checked the TDC marks, lined up so put it back together.
    You are supposed to rotate the engine 2 fulll revolutions BEFORE you tighten the tensioner to insure the belt is evenly tensioned. Since you havent started the engine you can still correct this.
    87 Zinno Cabrio 98k Barn Find. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=268987
    87 Lachsilber ETA Time Capsule. bought w 125k from 87yo original owner

    Cabrio deck lid & hinge struts (w sleeves) now for sale. See the link below for more info

    New "made in Europe" seat shocks. PM for details
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ot-Seat-Shocks

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Ft Lauderdale, Florida
    Posts
    810
    My Cars
    1987 e30 (Is) black.
    it sounds like a bad crank sensor. or you may have plugged the crank sensor in the wrong connector. I did that last time.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    6
    My Cars
    1987 BMW 320i
    Thanks guys, will try having a play tomorrow. Refit and tension the belt.

    Really want to check that I know what the Crank Position Sensor is, the only thing I think it could be is this part number - 12521279695.

    Thats the only sensor I've touched in this process. I was definately getting a spark but will check for how strong it is.

    Will see how it goes tomorrow.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    1,174
    My Cars
    87 Cabrio
    Quote Originally Posted by jcampbell120 View Post
    Thanks guys, will try having a play tomorrow. Refit and tension the belt.

    Really want to check that I know what the Crank Position Sensor is, the only thing I think it could be is this part number - 12521279695.

    Thats the only sensor I've touched in this process. I was definately getting a spark but will check for how strong it is.

    Will see how it goes tomorrow.
    On the 325i engine, there are two connectors that are removed while accessing the hoses around the thermostat - one is the CPS, I don't recall what the other is, but perhaps you inadvertently swapped these?

    It looks like you may not have replaced the Tstat or hoses, which you should have done while you had all the coolant out...unless, of course they were replaced in the last 4 years or so.
    Last edited by 87Cabrio89is; 08-27-2012 at 06:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    6
    My Cars
    1987 BMW 320i
    Ok, so still no go for the car starting. It sounds like it wants to start, is trying to fire and can hear the some firing noises.

    I checked that the crankshaft and camshaft TDC marks were lined up, loosened the tensioner and rotated the crankshaft, the TDC marks still lined up. Tightened the tensioner and rotated the crankshaft again to check, the TDC marks still perfectly lined up.

    Removed the spark plugs and left them to dry out a little, put them back. The CPS was in its place and hasn't been swapped with anything.

    I tried to start it and again no go.

    I have no idea what they problem is now. One thought is taken from the Haynes manual and 1 online guide is that to make sure that the engine is at TDC for the compression stroke (not exhaust stroke) by checking the distributor. However, I haven't rotated the crankshaft without a timing belt on so cannot see what difference this would make? Does anybody have any thoughts about this?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Ohio
    Posts
    156
    My Cars
    '05 330Ci Cabrio
    Are you sure you never rotated the crank while the belt was off? At this point, I think you need to check compression.
    -Chris
    2005 330Ci Cabriolet

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    1,174
    My Cars
    87 Cabrio
    Double check all spark plug connections. If you accidentally left one off, or have a poor connection, your car might not start (ask me how I know :-)). Check at the distributor cap as well. Also double check to ensure that you put plugs back on distributor cap in correct location.

    Please post solution so that others may benefit. Thank you.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Ft Lauderdale, Florida
    Posts
    810
    My Cars
    1987 e30 (Is) black.
    It really sounds like a cranck sensor problem. When I changed my timing belt, my car was running, after the service car would not start, it was the cranck, im currently using one from a mercedez. My advice is to borrow one from a friend, and test it.
    Process of elimination at this point.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    6
    My Cars
    1987 BMW 320i
    Hi,

    Very late reply but completely forgot to explain what was wrong. The distributor rotor was about 20 degrees out. Took off the cap and it wasn't lined up correctly.

    On this particular engine (320i) there is what i thought was an idler driven by the cambelt that drives the distributor. I hadn't locked this off throughout the cambelt changing process and it moved.

    It was a little bit annoying considering it didn't mention it at all in my haynes manual or anywhere else i could find. I will post an image at the weekend in case anybody has this engine.

    Thanks for all your help trying to think of what it was.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Officially in Tampa
    Posts
    2,137
    My Cars
    87 Cabrio & 87 ETA
    As I was re-reading this thread I started thinking "did he put the rotor back" :-)

    Glad you sorted it out
    87 Zinno Cabrio 98k Barn Find. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=268987
    87 Lachsilber ETA Time Capsule. bought w 125k from 87yo original owner

    Cabrio deck lid & hinge struts (w sleeves) now for sale. See the link below for more info

    New "made in Europe" seat shocks. PM for details
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ot-Seat-Shocks

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    25,923
    My Cars
    87 325is
    Several have suggested a CPS problem, but if that were the cause there's be no spark. I'm more inclined to suspect a fuel problem or intake leaks.
    The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
    Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4
    My Cars
    1988 BMW E30 320i
    Quote Originally Posted by jcampbell120 View Post
    Hi,

    Very late reply but completely forgot to explain what was wrong. The distributor rotor was about 20 degrees out. Took off the cap and it wasn't lined up correctly.

    On this particular engine (320i) there is what i thought was an idler driven by the cambelt that drives the distributor. I hadn't locked this off throughout the cambelt changing process and it moved.

    It was a little bit annoying considering it didn't mention it at all in my haynes manual or anywhere else i could find. I will post an image at the weekend in case anybody has this engine.

    Thanks for all your help trying to think of what it was.
    Hey, I think Im experiencing the same problem with my E30 320i. I know its a long shot but you wouldnt happen to still have the image of the piece you were talking about in this post? Completely stuck as what to do at this point.
    Thanks heaps!
    Kevin

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Joliet,IL
    Posts
    1,121
    My Cars
    87 325is 96 GMC Suburban
    If that is the case, I believe you just need to pull out , and then lower the distributor back in, and realigning the rotor in the process. There is probably a detailed outline on that model in the service manual, and several covering the general procedure (on all distributor motors) on YouTube, etc. Usually the way to check this is turn crankshaft (make sure you rotate it the same direction as the starter turns it) until cylinder one is at top dead center (on compression stroke, both valves closed as it is on its way up). At TDC the rotor should be pointing at the #1 plug wire socket on the distributor (cap). As long as it is close, moving the distributor is the fine adjustment. Having said this, I have never had an m20 with a distributor, so anyone feel free to chime in if I have missed anything.
    Last edited by msservices; 01-08-2019 at 07:37 PM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4
    My Cars
    1988 BMW E30 320i
    Quote Originally Posted by msservices View Post
    If that is the case, I believe you just need to pull out , and then lower the distributor back in, and realigning the rotor in the process. There is probably a detailed outline on that model in the service manual, and several covering the general procedure (on all distributor motors) on YouTube, etc. Usually the way to check this is turn crankshaft (make sure you rotate it the same direction as the starter turns it) until cylinder one is at top dead center (on compression stroke, both valves closed as it is on its way up). At TDC the rotor should be pointing at the #1 plug wire socket on the distributor (cap). As long as it is close, moving the distributor is the fine adjustment. Having said this, I have never had an m20 with a distributor, so anyone feel free to chime in if I have missed anything.
    I double checked that my engine was at TDC using both marks on the crank shaft sproket and camshaft sproket and there is only one way of attaching the rotor arm so Im unsure on how to actually alter it at all? Im starting to think it might be something to do with compression instead?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Joliet,IL
    Posts
    1,121
    My Cars
    87 325is 96 GMC Suburban
    Did you align the timing marks and verify the rotor is pointing toward the #1 plug on the distributor cap? The OP was about the intermediate shaft spinning while the timing belt was off/being replaced, thus throwing off the distributor timing. If that was the case, and it needed to be realigned, you would not be detaching the rotor from the distributor shaft, you would be rotating the distributor shaft itself (with the rotor attached). After removing the distributor hold down bolt an clamp, the whole assembly can be lifted out of the hole in the engine block, the gears then disconnect, and the distributor shaft can rotate free of the intermediate shaft to realign it. That is, if it was thrown off to begin with, which can be easily checked with the distributor cap and timing cover off.
    Last edited by msservices; 01-08-2019 at 10:06 PM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4
    My Cars
    1988 BMW E30 320i
    Yes everything lines up with one another and the dizzy arm is pointing to plug #1 although I crank the engine around and the two lines wont be lining up anymore, but if I crank it again the lines will meet up again? Is this possibly where my problem is lying? The thing is though I made sure nothing moved while I had the cylinder head off the car so Im not to sure if it is that?
    Last edited by KevinArE30; 01-09-2019 at 01:44 PM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    corpus christi, texas
    Posts
    6,738
    My Cars
    No e30s, again :(
    it will point 180 out and then point on the line because the cam and crank turns at different speeds. the crank turns at twice the speed of the cam because the cam has to open the intake valves on one turn and then the exhaust valves on the next turn, and one set of valves has to happen at each top most stroke of the piston (intake at top, exhaust at top of next) you distributor only has to point to tdc of the intake stroke so it turns at half the speed of your crank.

    as confusing as that is to read, that is why your line only lines up every other turn. every other turn is tdc of the intake stroke of the piston.

    think of it like a W
    each up point of W is tdc of piston movement (intake valve open, exhaust valve open, intake, exhaust, repeatedly)
    each down point of W is both valves closed

    your distributor only needs to fire at about tdc of each intake so you could have your distributor off a little from that point or it could be facing 180 degrees out and lining up on the exhaust stroke, which would make your car not run
    Last edited by superj; 01-09-2019 at 01:56 PM.
    No e30s again.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Joliet,IL
    Posts
    1,121
    My Cars
    87 325is 96 GMC Suburban
    Did you replace the timing belt before it broke, or after?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4
    My Cars
    1988 BMW E30 320i
    Turns out it was low compression guys, chucked a dab of oil in each cylinder and it fired back to life haha, kept it runnig until it was warm and its been good since! Thanks for the input everone!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •