Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 72

Thread: e85 fuel in a BMW

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    368
    My Cars
    00 540i, 10 335i, 20 M3P
    Yeah, it's so easy. Just go to the farmer's market, get a bushel, and jam the cobs into the fuel tank with a rubber mallet.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    North Liberty
    Posts
    32
    My Cars
    2012 Escapé
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferruccio View Post
    Yeah, it's so easy. Just go to the farmer's market, get a bushel, and jam the cobs into the fuel tank with a rubber mallet.
    I see what you did there

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Tinley Park, IL
    Posts
    14
    My Cars
    1989 BMW 325i
    has anyone really experimented with e85 in the e30's? im newer to BMW's. came from the Audi side of the fence (still have it though). i have some friends running e85 in their neon srt-4's and they can make some nasty power on the stock turbo. any info on anyone thats run e85 on a turbo m20? what needed to be done as far as fueling, tuning, supporting mods, etc?

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Mongolia
    Posts
    2
    My Cars
    Domenica04
    I'm impressed!!! Really informative phorum post on forums.bimmerforums.com my friend. I just wanted to comment u0026 say keep up the quality work. good luck

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North San Juan, CA, USA
    Posts
    268
    My Cars
    83/86x2 6csi,87 325is
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated

    Should be fine. I know tons of people that run E85 in Evo's etc and DD them, no problem. They just switch to 91 for smog/whatever. I can pass smog no problem.

    I am thinking about getting an RMS supercharger kit, grabbing maybe some 60# injectors, running about 7-10 psi... I think with 3" exhaust and Raceland headers on an S50 I could make 400+ whp on E85 with 7-8ish psi?

    Fuck I wish there was more info out there for E85 boosted S50/S52's.
    Will e85 make it worse or better on smog?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using BF.com
    82 hennarot 733i 5-speed
    83 silver 633csi 5-speed
    86 red 635csi 5-speed
    86 silver 635csi
    87 red 325is 5-speed lots of mods
    88 black 325i convertable 5-speed
    93 white 325is 5-speed
    95 black on black 750il
    98 silver 740iL

    Beemer me up Scotty

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New Delhi, Delhi, India
    Posts
    1
    My Cars
    no car
    I think BMW car's engine price is very high as we accepted.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Albany, IN
    Posts
    103
    My Cars
    2006 330I, 2006 Honda
    Quote Originally Posted by BimmermeScotty View Post
    Will e85 make it worse or better on smog?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using BF.com
    I would assume it would be beneficial. The air/fuel on a gasoline motor reads differently than an Ethanol one. So it'd appear leaner.

    I ran E85 in my old Evo for 4 years as a daily driver. It's amazing fuel and ridiculously cheap compared to 110 or q16. You do need larger injectors/pump to handle it though as it does require more fuel (about 30%) than normal gasoline tunes. It burns cooler and causes less detonation so it always helps especially in non-intercooler cars. I've also helped tune and a build a turbo e30 that ran it for a solid 2 years. You can do it with OEM lines and not have an issue, just pull your injectors once every few months and make sure they don't have any gunk build up. If they do, soak them in regular gasoline and clean them off. As far as power gains, I'm not sure NA but turbo cars love it. I went from 22psi on a small turbo to a 32 psi spike and had 0 knock issues. I've also ran a larger turbo on 34psi with no issues. It picked up about 120whp over the gasoline tune.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Bakersfield, California
    Posts
    23
    My Cars
    BMW 750iL 9/89
    1) Water is an issue. Damage shows up later. Damage to gaskets and rubber parts in some older engines. Don't get into ethanol before researching this carefully.
    2) Mileage is a huge issue on engines set up for gasoline. Ethanol fuels have lower BTU ratings. While I respect the tinkerers here, IMHO it's crazy to run ethanol mix in gasoline engines - especially in older cars.
    3) Why don't we have a choice whether or not to run straight gasoline in USA cars? It was a political decision by the politicians to buy farm state electoral votes. It is not a decision engineers would make. Ethanol is not suitable for many older engines. It turns rubber to mush. It makes cars fail and forces owners to buy newer cars. Supposedly this kind of aggressive social engineering is good for the economy but I would never let the crap near my BMW if I had the choice. Did you know that ethanol cannot be transported in pipelines? Why? Water builds up in the low points. That's why it has to be trucked to my state, California, where it is forced on people. We have no choice to buy it because it is added as a pollutant to our gasoline.
    4) Did anyone notice that most of the ethanol refineries went bankrupt and were bought up by the petroleum refiners for pennies on the dollar? They get paid a lot of money by the Feds to mix ethanol into their gasoline. It's a moneymaker. They don't care that you get 30% less mpg with the crap. They sell more fuel and make more money.
    5) Sure, you can make a car run really well on ethanol 85. NASCAR does it. But I have a BMW and I don't want to mess with it or damage it on crummy fuel.
    6) There is no clean air benefit from ethanol. Search:
    The Effects on Health and Climate of Ethanol Versus Other Vehicle
    Technologies and Fuels
    Mark Z. Jacobson
    Atmosphere/Energy Program
    Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering
    Stanford University

    I don't like being forced to buy 30% more gasoline laced with alcohol. I am pissed off. So remember this when you praise ethanol.
    Last edited by Ptero; 11-26-2012 at 08:56 PM.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    5,373
    My Cars
    67mm 325i, RAM 1500
    all i read was blah blah blah

    I used to get 280 miles to the tank in my NA bolted m54b30 on 93, and now on e85 I get 290 with the same commute every week. (hard on the throttle, probably smack the limiter a few times every day)

    If all you have is speculation and theories along with numbers that are crunched you dont really know.

    never changed the pump, filter, lines, o rings, nada.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    545
    My Cars
    1995 M3 Coupe, 2010 335d
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferruccio View Post
    I am running 100% E85 in my car right now. Here's what had to be done:

    There is a Siemens alcohol sensor that is now running in line with the fuel lines, which changes engine timing and fuel trims based on the content of E85. The main issue is that E85 can have a wide variance in actual ethanol content (I've heard anywhere from 60% to 95% based on chemical analysis from the pump). This siemens sensor feeds data into a reflashed DME and a piggyback.

    Since E85 burns cooler, you can really crank up the power. My car was originally dynoing at 260 horsepower at the wheels (335xi), and now it's dynoing at 400+ hp at the wheels. Now, I need a new clutch, because the stock clutch cannot handle this kind of torque without slipping, if it hasn't *really* warmed up.

    I also needed to get a new fuel pump. The low pressure fuel pump (LPFP) was about to go, and E85 demands about 30% more fuel flow (it's less efficient in energy density). Anything full load about 4500 RPM resulted in cavitation between the low pressure fuel pump, which couldn't pump fast enough, and the high pressure fuel pump, which was running just fine. I now have a new LPFP. So far, everything is running just fine, though there are some interesting other problems that are slowly being fleshed out with gradual changes in the engine maps. It's mainly things like a rough idle if the engine is cold. I'll keep you updated.

    It's a big experiment, but it is certainly fun accelerating through 1st and 2nd gear as hard as a 996 turbo. Right now, with this sensor, I can run any mixture of 91 octane and E85. It's worked out great
    Ok, some quick questions on this one.. How long have you ran this mode? Usually any rubber that hits the big "E" dies (if not made for it). Next, what tune/mods do you have?

    Lastly for the guy that put the "E" sensor in-line, did you use a War Chip to flip for the curve delta on the ethanol?

    Good read folks.. keep it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ptero View Post
    1)
    I don't like being forced to buy 30% more gasoline laced with alcohol. I am pissed off. So remember this when you praise ethanol.
    I agree, and you have to pay 60% more for 30% less.. in my location is it "up to 15%" .. yeah... do you get the discount .. nope...
    Last edited by Das Bullitt; 11-27-2012 at 12:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Bakersfield, California
    Posts
    23
    My Cars
    BMW 750iL 9/89
    If all you have is speculation and theories along with numbers that are crunched you dont really know.
    From the source I provided:

    Potential Effects of E85 vs. Gas:
    Emission Differences From Data (Percent change)
    Oxides of nitrogen -30 (-59 to +33)
    Carbon monoxide +5 (-33 to +320)
    Total organic gas +22 (+38 to +95)
    Methane +43 (+43 to +340)
    Formaldehyde +60 (+7 to +240)
    Acetaldehyde +2000 (+1250 to +4340)
    Benzene -79 (-62 to -85)
    PM number 0 (+100)
    PM mass 0 (+31)

    [The table is more clear but usually people who use "blah, blah, blah" in their sentences don't look things up.]

    Problems of fuel ethanol production have been the subject of numerous reports, including this analysis. The conclusions are that ethanol: does not improve U.S. energy security; is uneconomical; is not a renewable energy source; and increases environmental degradation. Ethanol production is wasteful of energy resources and does not increase energy security. Considerably more energy, much of it high- grade fossil fuels, is required to produce ethanol than is available in the energy output. About 72% more energy is used to ‘produce a gallon of ethanol than the energy in a gallon of ethanol. Ethanol production from corn is not renewable energy. Its production uses more non- renewable fossil energy resources in growing the corn and in the fermentation/distillation process than is produced as ethanol energy. Ethanol produced from corn and other food crops is also an unreliable and therefore a non-secure source of energy, because of the likelihood of uncontrollable climatic fluctuations, particularly droughts which reduce crop yields. The expected priority for corn and other food crops would be for food and feed. Increasing ethanol production would increase degradation of agricultural land and water and pollute the environment. In U.S. corn production, soil erodes some 18- times faster than soil is reformed, and, where irrigated, corn production mines water faster than recharge of aquifers. Increasing the cost of food and diverting human food resources to the costly and inefficient production of ethanol fuel raise major ethical questions. These occur at a time when more food is needed to meet the basic needs of a rapidly growing world population. -- David Pimental, Journal of Agricultural and Environmental Ethics
    1991, Volume 4, Issue 1, pp 1-13, Ethanol fuels: Energy security, economics, and the environment

    Nobody listened to Pimental, either. Now watch what the Midwest Drought does to ethanol prices.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    5,373
    My Cars
    67mm 325i, RAM 1500
    Explain to me how I am getting better fuel economy with more injector and e85?

    Its a controlled route I take every week, the only difference was e85 and injector size, everything else remained the same.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Outer Heaven
    Posts
    6,970
    My Cars
    '92 TRM E36 / '05 325ci
    Quote Originally Posted by Das Bullitt View Post
    Ok, some quick questions on this one.. How long have you ran this mode? Usually any rubber that hits the big "E" dies (if not made for it). Next, what tune/mods do you have?

    Lastly for the guy that put the "E" sensor in-line, did you use a War Chip to flip for the curve delta on the ethanol?

    Good read folks.. keep it up!


    I agree, and you have to pay 60% more for 30% less.. in my location is it "up to 15%" .. yeah... do you get the discount .. nope...
    The member running the alcohol sensor has an e9x 335. No warchip for them.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    7,020
    My Cars
    DSP E46 330Ci
    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Explain to me how I am getting better fuel economy with more injector and e85?

    Its a controlled route I take every week, the only difference was e85 and injector size, everything else remained the same.
    Measurement error or bad (lean) tuning, more than likely. It's not physically possible, assuming you're running enough E85 to maintain the correct lambda. To run the same lambda as with 100% gasoline you will be pushing 30-33% more E85 through the motor at the same power level. If the car is tuned for E85 it'll likely make a little more power due to the cooler mixture temperatures and increased spark advance, so you'll be using even more fuel.

    No matter how you cut it, with all variables equalized you'll get fewer miles per gallon with E85. More power, yes, but less mileage by about 30%.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    5,373
    My Cars
    67mm 325i, RAM 1500
    right, my car is running the same 17lb injector tune for a 3.5 maf, with 24lb injectors

    aka

    41% more fuel.

    let the o2 sensor make its lambda correction and voila runs purrfect.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    7,020
    My Cars
    DSP E46 330Ci
    So if you're running 41% more fuel, your gas mileage has decreased by 41%, which is not what you said.

    The other problem here is that your car doesn't have a lambda sensor (unless your car is OBD-II). Your car has a narrowband oxygen sensor which is nowhere near accurate enough to tune your fuel mixture in the way you think it is. I'm glad it's working for you, but...

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    531
    My Cars
    DTM E30 M3, Lachs E30 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    right, my car is running the same 17lb injector tune for a 3.5 maf, with 24lb injectors

    aka

    41% more fuel.

    let the o2 sensor make its lambda correction and voila runs purrfect.
    Standard dme's can only correct 20% total, 10% to each side of lambda. You need to check your AFRs at high load and RPM. You are running very lean.

    T

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    5,660
    My Cars
    2005 M3 & 2004 330i
    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    all i read was blah blah blah

    I used to get 280 miles to the tank in my NA bolted m54b30 on 93, and now on e85 I get 290 with the same commute every week. (hard on the throttle, probably smack the limiter a few times every day)

    If all you have is speculation and theories along with numbers that are crunched you dont really know.

    never changed the pump, filter, lines, o rings, nada.
    Unless E36s have significantly smaller tanks than E46s, 280 miles/tank on highway driven M54b30 is pretty pathetic. I would frequently get 400 miles before filling up in my old 330i, and I generally filled up before the light came on. OBC predicted I could get 480+ Usually red lined at least once a day. I would expect that a lighter weight car with a smaller frontal area to get even better mileage.

    Thermodynamically, it's impossible for a gallon of ethanol to give you the same mileage as a gallon of gasoline (assuming everything is running properly). Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.
    Last edited by TerraPhantm; 12-20-2012 at 10:31 PM.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    128
    My Cars
    2002 BMW 325xi
    my 02 325xi is bone stock. should i run this? im afraid that its gonna mess up the engine. i have no experiance whatsoever so please help

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    7,020
    My Cars
    DSP E46 330Ci
    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    Thermodynamically, it's impossible for a gallon of ethanol to give you the same mileage as a gallon of gasoline (assuming everything is running properly). Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.
    I think we scared him off with t3h fizziks.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    466
    My Cars
    1996 318ti
    Hater... you are running OBD2 with the m54b30? Any way to hook up a wide band and make sure its all good? Not doubting your results... if you have seen no decrease (even an increase) in range switching to e85 that would be great!

    I wonder whats with the "less efficient" per gallon going around. When used in an engine designed for gasoline I would agree that the outcome is less efficient... however, when ethanol is used in an ethanol engine (think past even flex engines) the results are spectacular. Look at any turbo car and you will see. The increased static compression as well as turbo boost level makes for very efficient use of a gallon of ethanol... where gasoline would just detonate.

    Also, ethanol contains oxygen within its covalent bonds. Kinda like built in NOS

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    7,020
    My Cars
    DSP E46 330Ci
    Quote Originally Posted by KyleTaylor View Post
    I wonder whats with the "less efficient" per gallon going around.
    It has nothing to do with whether the engine was "designed for" E85 or not. It has everything to do with physics (or chemistry).

    Ethanol's energy content is about 76,100 BTUs/Gal. Gasoline's energy content is 114,100 BTUs/Gal. E85 is somewhere in between at around 81,000 BTUs/gal. That's 71% the energy per gallon. Therefore to do the same amount of work as gasoline, you need 40% more E85.

    E85 has some performance advantages - it is higher octane than pump gas meaning an engine can have a higher compression ratio. It requires more spark advance because it burns more slowly than gasoline. It also has a high specific heat, so it provides a charge cooling effect. Bottom line is an engine can make more power on E85 if tuned for it.

    But it will ALWAYS get fewer miles per gallon if run at or near a stoichiometric ratio.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15
    My Cars
    1998 BMW M3 Coupe
    im interested in this as well

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Netherlands Antilles
    Posts
    1
    My Cars
    Melvin
    In it something is. Clearly, thanks for an explanation.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    67
    My Cars
    1992 325is
    So in theory if I install injectors that flow 40% more than could I run e85? And also would running e85 be a viable alternative to dropping the compression ratio with a thicker head gasket on a forced induction application?

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •