NGK non-resistor plugs

[Drifto]

I did a search and it appears the majority of you f/i guys are using the R5671A-7 plug. I did some research and found that these are non-resistor plugs. Wouldn't that cause RFI. Are you guys experiencing any problems? I just ordered 3 sets and then found this out. I hope its' not a problem.

[paul e]

Drifto, with so many of us using that plug, I think wed have heard by now from anybody if they were having any problems with it. What kinds of problems might you anticipate?

[Drifto]

I would expect there to be RFI which could cause static coming through the radio or screw with the computer and its comunication to various systems. Possibly causing a missfire.

[CRISTIAN]

Ops...

BTW, I heard that NGK have some better cold plugs for FI, I heard something about Iridium NKS's but I don't know the part number ?

My problem is that here in Europe at NGK dealer I don't find this part number R5671A-7. I don't now why?

Anyway, if someone know better cold plugs for FI and M3, let me know.

[mertdastan]

I got NGK racing plugs. Each costs 35 USD + shipping. These are 4 degrees colder, have no tips. I found only 6 of them in the whole USA. So very special ones.

Will test them after the 900+ hp set up is re mapped.

[M3TurboCa]

Although the plugs have no resistor it does not seem to affect the car computer or stereo.

By removing the resistor this is one way to make the plugs run cooler.

I was speaking to a tech at NGK last year May and was telling him that I was using the Racing ngk R5671A - 7 and he was saying that Sept 03 NGk should be releasing a iridium plug that is compatible in performance with the R5671A - 7 plug.

The equilivent part number he quotes was BKR7E1X - 11 same temp rating as temp 7 is the racing plug we use. Stock number was# 6988

http://www.sparkplugs.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=&pid=3501

Question I hear it is not recommended to regap the iridium plugs ?
How will we reduce gap to .028 or lower if we need ?

They are not available in Canada so have not tried them yet.

[paul e]

>>How will we reduce gap to .028 or lower if we need <<

Heres the problem as I see it.. That plug comes with a factory set gap of .044"!!!!!!!!!!

Unless thats because the iridium plug uses this as a .028" conventional plug equiv on our cars, I wouldnt think we could use it. But why do you think we cannot adjust the gap? Looks to me like its a conventional type side electrode. Its the center electrode which looks to be different. So I just wrote them an email at that site, and asked about the gap.

[CRISTIAN]

Guys, what do you think about this plug ?

DENSO IRIDIUM 5304, Nr: IK20.
Are these plugs good for our engines? From what sparkplugs.com website declare, also has 0,044" gap.
The difference is that Denso use a 0,4mm center electrode instead of 0,6mm for NGK.
Also 20 for Denso is the same colder plug like 7 for NGK.

If we want a special gap, can the seller sparkplugs.com gap the iridium plugs for us ? I understand that is a little bit complicated. The smaller iridium center electrode can be very fast damaged if we don't use special tools.

Paradoxically Denso Iridium are expensive then NGK Iridium.
Is better a smaller center electrode???

Also, if someone know, if I have low CR pistons, I need something special or the same like for 10.5 stock CR ?

[Drifto]

You can gap the iridiums. You MUST be careful not to pry against the electrode or it will break. If you use the correct gapper with the "hooked" end you can simply use it like you would on any plug. To close the gap, lightly tap the ground strap on a hard surface and then use the tool to adjust.

[M3TurboCa]

What drifto said is right got off the phone with a NGK tech and he gave me the right part numbers and the differences.

For the temp 7 you want BKR7E1X no dash the gap is .035" stock and the -11 is .044"

For the OBD I motors that wants two temp colder than stock BKR8E1X Stock#2668.

The gap preset to .035" and can be reduced a max ot .027"

The tech said the Iridium plugs you could reduce gap a max of .008"

Just to be very carefull of the iridium tip and use the proper tool to reduce the gap.

He said that they are a better performing plug than the R5671A that we use.

[CRISTIAN]

Did you asked if they can gap for us the plugs ?
For my OBD1 motor, I need 8 colder ngk's ?

[M3TurboCa]

No I contacted NGK directly and they dont sell to the public and not interested in gapping them.

I guess you might have to try the place you buy them from. It is not hard to regap the plugs just make sure you have the right tool.

Most good spark plug gauge have a fitting to change the gap on the plugs.

I would say for your sc app no need to go more than 1 temp colder. The BKR7E1X should be fine and try a inital gap of .032" and then reduce it .002" at a time.

There is no need to gap less than .028"

I wonder since the iridium plugs require less spark to ignite does it mean with our forced induction setup will make the plugs work like a high voltage setup ??

The denso are good plugs but not worth the money. I think I will definately try a set of these NGK BKR8E1X myself.

[CRISTIAN]

If you said that NGK BKR7E1X11 has a 0,044" manufacturer gap, and I can't reduce the gap with more then 0,008", then if I understand correct it will result a 0.036" gap plug.

Well, how can I reach the 0,032" gap are you talking about ?

[CRISTIAN]

Originally posted by M3TurboCa

The denso are good plugs but not worth the money. I think I will definately try a set of these NGK BKR8E1X myself.

Man, if you want to try these BKR8E1X, why you told me that I don't need them ?

Is no difference between boost if is turbo or SC, boost is boost and is the same 12psi in the intake manifold for you and me... the difference is that my chamber is bigger with 9.7 cr so I have more compressed air in the chamber => a bigger explosion, and cams are also bigger => more VE => more air in chamber, the engine runs more rpm about 7000rpm, displacement is bigger, so... is more heat there in my chamber... maybe more then in your turbo setup.

Why do you think is better 8 colder for your setup and not also for my setup ?

[M3TurboCa]

The BKR7E1X is pre gapped for .035" take it down from there.

The reason I run two temp colder is I run 12 psi on stock compression and build 12psi from 5000rpm to 7000rpm.

You normally build your max boost at redline. If you feel you want to go two colder two by all means buy them.

You dont produce as much heat as I do and nowhere the amount of torque.

Remember my numbers was at 10.5 psi and Im now running 12psi which mean more pwer and torque than my last dynojet.

[CRISTIAN]

Ok, I understand you have bigger torque at much lower rpm, but you missing a point, when you run low CR pistons, the EGT is BIGGER not lower... Because 1. the air from the chamber is more, and 2. the efficiency of the explosion is smaller.

Also, torque x rpm=power, so if I use 7000 rpm with the same torque you have at 6500 rpm, will result bigger power. Bigger power consum more fuel and means everytime higher EGT. This equation is good for the entire rpm band.

If you have bigger torque at lower rpm then me, the produced heat is very small there at low rpm. Heat appear when you have bigger torque (better volumetric efficiency) at higher rpm.

My problem is do not overheat my engine with big power at higher rpm, not how much torque I have down low. Sure there turbo is turbo. But you see, the HEAT from the chamber is generated by power not by only torque. So, very possible we have the same EGT at higher rpm...

Very good if they pre gap the plugs for 0,035"

BTW, if I use BKR8E1X with pre gap 0,035" is not aprox. the same like if I use BKR7E1X with 0,28" gapped ?

What do you think about that? Maybe is better?
What worth more, the colder number or the GAP ?

[M3TurboCa]

I see your point I think.

Normally the larger the gap you have the more power the spark will produce or a better burn I should say.

NGK recommends that for every 75-100hp increase you can go one temp colder. The colder plugs help pull the heat out of the combustion chamber. Quoted on NGK for every temp colder you go you pull out 70-100'C out of the combustion chamber.

With forced induced motors with higher boost you can get misfires and detonation. Easily when the air gets very cold <40'F with the cold air being so dense it very easy to get a misfire especially if you run water injection as it will tend to blow out the spark.

To help reduce it you can reduce the gap till you have no more misfire.

Stock gap is normally .032" so that is where I would start and then reduce it if you encounter any misfires.

With my current setup I have to run the gap .028" in the summer and fall or spring when the air is cold below <40'F I have to reduce it to .026".

At .028" I was still getting a misfire.

[paul e]

>>At .028" I was still getting a misfire<<

I found that when I dynoed at 20 degrees F, I got misfires. I then checked my NGK plugs and found the gap had grown from .028 to about .036! When I replaced them, I reduced the gap from a stock .028 to about .026, figuring that since it was early January, by the time the summer rolls around, that gap will have likely grown to the .028" Id want for the warmer weather anyway. Seems to be working out so far. Our r5671a-7 plus must be changed every 10 to 15k miles. Anybody know if the suggested BKR7E1X plugs with the .035" gap last any longer? If not, given the fact that we can get our 5671as for about 2 bucks, and these suggested ones are near 6 bucks, Im wondering if it makes much sense. Will we likely see any kind of improvement? Someones got to let us know

Incidentally, I checked another site, clubplug.net, and they have the BKR7E1X-11 plug at about 6 bucks and change, but for some reason, the one with the smaller gap, BKR7E1X is listed for over 9 bucks!!! For just a smaller gap??? Do you have the stock number for it at sparkplugs.com? cant find the BKR7E1X there...

Never mind.. just found it.. stock number 2667.. price is $7.60... and the gap is listed at .030....

[CRISTIAN]

I read somewhere that a larger gap for iridium plugs can be better then a smaller gap for standard plugs...

Like you said, M3TurboCa, maybe is better for you to ran 8 colder and 0,030" gap... and maybe will give you more power the bigger spark

Btw, Paul how did you found that NGK 2667 (BKR7EIX) has the 0,030" gap ?
On the sparkplugs.com or clubplug.net websites I don't see that. For my it's a mystery... Are you sure about that ?

Well, I think I will try first BKR7EIX and then BKR8EIX, and I will tell you who works better on my highway

[CRISTIAN]

Paul, what do you think is good the Champion GAP Gauge from the clubplug.net website ? Do you use a better one ?

[M3TurboCa]

I just told my mechanic to order me a set of the BKR8EIX.

When I get them I will let you know how they respond and will try gap at .030" first and then take it down from there.

That champion can only adjust the gap larger it cant bend the ground strap smaller properly.

I have one of these at the office and a proper gauge that will bend the ground strap.

[paul e]

>>Btw, Paul how did you found that NGK 2667 (BKR7E1X) has the 0,030" gap ?
On the sparkplugs.com or clubplug.net websites I don't see that. For my it's a mystery... Are you sure about that <<

Yea, I cant find it today again either. But I assure you, last night, when I was in research mode, I verified that the plug without the -11 designation does indeed come with a .030" gap.

But before I wind up spending 30 bucks more for the set than the current r5671a-7 plugs, Ill need to hear reports from you braver guys willing to take the plunge, and establish a new data point for the rest of us.

[CRISTIAN]

Guys... I just seen something... the correct NGK code is not BKR7E1X... or BKR8E1X...

Correct is:

1. BKR7EIX No: 2667
2. BKR8EIX No: 2668

I from Iridium

[M3TurboCa]

Originally posted by CRISTIAN
Guys... I just seen something... the correct NGK code is not BKR7E1X... or BKR8E1X...

Correct is:

1. BKR7EIX No: 2667
2. BKR8EIX No: 2668

I from Iridium

CRISTIAN BKR7EIX is the correct model number used for marketing. 2667 is the stock number distributors/dealers use for ordering.

Woops I did use 1 but meant Ix for Iridium X

[CRISTIAN]

Guys, exist also another DENSO IRIDIUM IK22 and IK24.
These plugs have the stock gap 0.32" on the sparkplugs.com website.

Right now I foud correct that 22 (not 20) for DENSO is 7 for NGK.
And 24 for DENSO is 8 colder for NGK.

Also center electrode is only 0,4mm for Denso instead of 0,6mm for NGK.
I just found reading the sparkplugs.com website that the smaller center electrode is better for Super-High preformance. But the price is 12$. Looks like DENSO are more expensive but more performance...