Sick of loose steering in your e34?

[mikeday1036]

this week my prototype will be ready for assembly, then there will be pictures and more details, on the geometry there (at the moment) seem to be no changes compared to the e34 stock, the mounting points are very solid. + the rods are all BMW oem be patient.

no changes to the oil pans required. especially for the r6 engines as it is being developed for the v12 with no changes for double exhausts, rods etc.

well sounds like bump steer to me....

The reason the stock drag link dips down in the middle is to clear the oil pans on these things. I haven't come across any U-shaped racks in my travels, so the only way to get correct geometry is either make custom knuckles or get the rack higher (ie oil pan mods)




Dont get me wrong, i'm not trying to discourage you. I've just been playing with the geometry for a while and its very difficult to do the "right" way

[BoldUlysses]

Am I the only one who has reasonably tight steering? Seriously, no complaints here. Maybe 1/2" play on center, but that's it.

Still, interested to see rack solutions.

[SpecRaceM5]

I believe I have seen steering rack swaps done on e34's in the past but from what I remember it was a bit more involved than I wanted to venture. This was back when I had my '91 M5. Good luck with the swap. I'm sure the end result will be fantastic.

[EuroPartConnect]

Interested

[kniggit]

Am I the only one who has reasonably tight steering? Seriously, no complaints here. Maybe 1/2" play on center, but that's it.

Still, interested to see rack solutions.

+1
Adjusted the steering box and the steering column during my recent manual conversion, tight as a fishes arsehole.

[trive2]

Would be interested for the sake of it.

But guys, to those of you that have free play. Do your bushes, drag link and tie rods, then adjust the play out.

Bingo, no play.

[Jimmy E34]

Would this fit 525i as well?

[ArnZ]

I would love this but i wont like the legalities of it here in Australia.

[RVAE34]

I just realized that this would also eliminate the steering pitman and idler arm which would also allow me to run a larger turbo Definitely do want. Of course it could also create new clearance issues... Looking forward to some photos.

[attack eagle]

Ok let's not jump to conclusions already I see that there is interest. well the rack mounts arent bolted with som m6 screws to the front axle carrier. you will be able to see the whole thing from every angle also under the paint. I wanna try it out myself, will risk my own health/life at first and we ll see, I am not offering anything yet. only as it proves itself. Be patient and in my opinion that loose steering wheel and play in it may sometimes cause more danger and severe consequences. at 120~140 mph 5~10cm play in the steering wheel is unacceptable

what kind of a piece of crap car are you driving?
I don't think i had even 1/2 cm of play in the steering on the touring, so i have never gotten what all the fuss is about. a rack has better feel, but play? never ever had a problem. replace worn parts, properly adjust everything and it isn't bad at all, better than a lot of the cheap cars with racks.

you do realize you are asking Complete running e34 525i/5 prices for a car part, right? And as soon as one of us figures out what you used, anyone will be able to reproduce it for the price of the raw parts and some welding time. ($400?)

[jehu]

Am I the only one who has reasonably tight steering? Seriously, no complaints here. Maybe 1/2" play on center, but that's it.

Still, interested to see rack solutions.

Is that "play" not built in? I mean do you really want your steering to respond instantaneously with a 1:1 in/out ratio when you're doing 140 mph? I've hated every spastic rack and pinion ride I've ever driven... you sneeze at the wrong time and you marry the barrier.

[riddlerLV]

what kind of a piece of crap car are you driving?
I don't think i had even 1/2 cm of play in the steering on the touring, so i have never gotten what all the fuss is about. a rack has better feel, but play? never ever had a problem. replace worn parts, properly adjust everything and it isn't bad at all, better than a lot of the cheap cars with racks.

you do realize you are asking Complete running e34 525i/5 prices for a car part, right? And as soon as one of us figures out what you used, anyone will be able to reproduce it for the price of the raw parts and some welding time. ($400?)

ok maybe my box is more dead then the others, but all the knuckles are new, the center steering bar is new, that pitman arm bush is new, all the bushes are polyurethane, it still has a considerable play. but I've driven so many e34s and they all have it, more or less, there is no actual way to rebuild it, and to pay 1700 for that shit (@ dealers) no thanks, about the parts, not that sure there are so many of them in the US the racks themselves

and hey, I don't force people to be interested in them, It's my own upgrade at first you like it? I could build another one or two or more, if not, it's ok too

[RVAE34]

Have you tightened the bolt on the steering shaft collar down at the box?

Mine is very tight but I still like the rack better. And if it means I can indeed run a larger turbo, I am all for it.

[jfs356]

Very interested in this, my 25 year old Volvo has tighter steering than mylow mile E34?

[RVAE34]

As mentioned many times in this thread, if your steering is that bad, it's most likely several other suspension issues combined.

[BoldUlysses]

Is that "play" not built in? I mean do you really want your steering to respond instantaneously with a 1:1 in/out ratio when you're doing 140 mph? I've hated every spastic rack and pinion ride I've ever driven... you sneeze at the wrong time and you marry the barrier.

It's a tradeoff. Properly engineered and tuned cars give you the best of both worlds: Instantaneous steering response when you want it, and stable tracking at highway speeds.

And if it means I can indeed run a larger turbo, I am all for it.

Just go topside. /problem

[K Fox]

Is that "play" not built in? I mean do you really want your steering to respond instantaneously with a 1:1 in/out ratio when you're doing 140 mph? I've hated every spastic rack and pinion ride I've ever driven... you sneeze at the wrong time and you marry the barrier.

See below...

It's a tradeoff. Properly engineered and tuned cars give you the best of both worlds: Instantaneous steering response when you want it, and stable tracking at highway speeds.

^ This. Like I said, my Turbo Brick has better steering than our beloved E34's. The 6 speed is tight, but it's just not the same as a rack. I drive the Volvo with 'fingertip' touch - it's not that easy to turn, but the feel is there. I know exactly what the tires are doing, and know what adjustments to make (if needed) accordingly. Even with the tight for an E34 steering on the 6 speed, it's just not the same.

Now with that said, not all rack systems are that wonderful either. for example, I recently had the chance to drive a new Camero, and did so. I was disappointed. The steering is 'rack sharp', but dead of feeling and feedback. So it's twitchy, like mentioned above - a not as well designed system that will kill you at high speeds if you're not careful. Again, maybe I'm spoiled, but the steering in my 88 740 is the yardstick I measure other cars by, and an awesome system. An old Volvo...with better steering that our 'Ultimate Driving Machines'...it shouldn't be. I ultimately like the idea of a rack swap if it can change that for the better.

Fox

P.S. Another thought - an 'overboosted' rack and pinion system with too much assist can be a problem. So reducing the assist from the rack (should be as simple as bleeding off some of the high pressure to the rack) might solve that issue. As someone mentioned earlier, something that might need looking at for a rack swap due to the differing designs. This should also be applicable to an existing system with some potential improvements - I say this because my Volvo had a bad rack for years, and this caused it to bleed out the fluid under pressure. Much lower assist that it should have had, but incredible feel. Replacing the rack got me full assist again, and now I'm looking into dropping the inlet pressure to the rack for this exact reason - I want that feel and weight back. It was perfect before fixing the leak...

[BoldUlysses]

Fox, I agree with your assessment in general, but disagree that the E34's steering box lacks feel. It has a lot of feel (helped by the car's overall balance and weight distribution that keeps just the right amount of load on the front tires); what it lacks is response. In addition to the on-center dead spot (something all recirc ball system have, no matter how tight), there's just a delay between turning the wheel and feeling the nose of the car move. Fresh/stiffer bushings, springs and dampers help, but a rack has a directness that just can't be matched. I think that's what you're experiencing with the Volvo. FWIW, my old 940T's steering was excellent as well.

If you want to experience truly telepathic steering response, go find a 2nd generation ('86-'91) RX-7. It's laser-sharp.

[SmurfeN]

awesome!

[K Fox]

Fox, I agree with your assessment in general, but disagree that the E34's steering box lacks feel. It has a lot of feel (helped by the car's overall balance and weight distribution that keeps just the right amount of load on the front tires); what it lacks is response. In addition to the on-center dead spot (something all recirc ball system have, no matter how tight), there's just a delay between turning the wheel and feeling the nose of the car move. Fresh/stiffer bushings, springs and dampers help, but a rack has a directness that just can't be matched. I think that's what you're experiencing with the Volvo. FWIW, my old 940T's steering was excellent as well.

Now wait - I didn't say the E34's steering lacked feel. It doesn't - if anything it was the new '12 Camero that lacked feel. As you said, the E34 suffers from that dead spot, and suffers badly in some cases (like my 94...).

If you want to experience truly telepathic steering response, go find a 2nd generation ('86-'91) RX-7. It's laser-sharp.

Oh, yeah. BTDT. (It's in my cars list...)



Yeah, it's old and tired. Needy, and on the back burner, sadly. But it's there, and it runs fabulously, though I can't get it to pass emissions now...

Fox

[BoldUlysses]

Yeah, it's old and tired. Needy, and on the back burner, sadly. But it's there, and it runs fabulously, though I can't get it to pass emissions now...

Fox

Looks like a fun project! I see...an '86/'87 Base model (phone dial wheels)? What are your plans for it?

[K Fox]

Looks like a fun project! I see...an '86/'87 Base model (phone dial wheels)? What are your plans for it?

86 base, and light as hell. Plans??!!? Well, if I ever get there, it's going to get an S5 turbo motor (prolly build one up from parts, that way I know it's done right and solid internally). If I can get a place with a garage, I want to try my paw at making carbon fiber parts too - I'll start with simple stuff to get the feel. Other than that, just the basic coil overs and 5 lug swap - and I already have the parts for that, just need the consumables (brake rotors and pads). Simple stuff - the car is already quite a giggle to drive, I just want to get it back to driving again. Think 'weekend toy'. Getting past emissions here is not easy though, at least, not for an older rotary engine...damn high hydrocarbons...

Fox (/threadjack....and sorry guys)

P.S. Obviously I'm gonna make it at least one solid color. Not gonna go nuts with the cosmetics though, as you can't see form the pics but the interior isn't all that great either. Though all the body panels used to be straight. People keep backing into or hitting it though, and it's driving me crazy. So I'm not gonna be nuts over the appearance - more rat rod, if you will.

[riddlerLV]

I don't understand the idea of some to persuade people not to upgrade to racks, If you don't like it, drive with the box. it's not like the end of the world if you don't install it. I have tightened my steering box. and it did improve but still not as good as for example an e36 or e39 (small engined) IMO, I am tuning my car to my needs, I was just curious if people are interested in this type of solution. that's it. maybe those of serious interest send me PMs, so that we don't get spammed away here

[eightynine535]

keep this thread open...trust me even the skeptics ITT are curious to see what you come up with.

[e34Croak]

My 530 has all new OEM front suspension bits and a brand new steering box... Would not change a thing about the car handles or how the steering feels. I obviously don't track the car but have walked it sideways more times than I can remember over the past 8 years. Love the steering response. That's probably why all that stuff needed replacing..
Good luck with the build