Production numbers: North American-spec sedans w/ manual transmissions

[EE05063]

Press cars appear to have better performing engines, which is what M3 LTW used to get. On some early cars BMW even cheated. There is a press E34 M5 with less sound deadening, thinner windows and top of the range engine.

interesting. I can see them doing that too. This car was specifically requested by the original owner. He was a well to do engineer and back when the sedan M3 hit the market he went to the local BMW/Porsche dealer and told them he wanted a low mileage Sedan M3, White, Black leather, non lux, no spoiler, no extra options...... His original plan was to get the stiffest and lightest M3 possible. He even specified non-folding rear seats and no sunroof to the dealer because he had done his homework and knew it would be a stiffer car better for the track. Somehow this car never was registered to anyone after being accepted at customs until after a year or so and 16k miles were put on it which is when the original "owner" got it whom I got it from. Life went on and he never got to do anything but drive and maintain it and I got it.....

[SickFinga]

interesting. I can see them doing that too. This car was specifically requested by the original owner. He was a well to do engineer and back when the sedan M3 hit the market he went to the local BMW/Porsche dealer and told them he wanted a low mileage Sedan M3, White, Black leather, non lux, no spoiler, no extra options...... His original plan was to get the stiffest and lightest M3 possible. He even specified non-folding rear seats and no sunroof to the dealer because he had done his homework and knew it would be a stiffer car better for the track.

I doubt that he specifically requested that car since it's a press car. It was mostly likely ordered by BMW of NA and later sold to him after all the press reviews were done. From what I've seen, press cars are auctioned off. You can email BMW and request more information regarding your car. They can tell you what dealer ordered it.

Somehow this car never was registered to anyone after being accepted at customs until after a year or so and 16k miles were put on it which is when the original "owner" got it whom I got it from. Life went on and he never got to do anything but drive and maintain it and I got it.....

Looks like you are looking at carfax data. Don't put too much faith into it. It is most likely that data prior to 16k miles was lost or it was in a non-carfax reporting state.

[EE05063]

I doubt that he specifically requested that car since it's a press car. It was mostly likely ordered by BMW of NA and later sold to him after all the press reviews were done. From what I've seen, press cars are auctioned off. You can email BMW and request more information regarding your car. They can tell you what dealer ordered it.

With all of his stipulations there were only two cars made to his "order". He didn't request a press car per se. He requested all the specifics and the press car is the only one that fit. I wasn't suggesting he asked for "the car used for a review". But indirectly he unknowingly was.

I did email BMWNA. They told me pretty much only that a Tom Williams BMW was invoiced for it. Tom Williams was a little help but they changed ownership 6-7 years ago and have no records dating back to 1997-1998.

I actually have a history thread here that shows what I have found so far. Carfax was little help although it did have the customs acceptance date and then later around 16k miles I think it shows it at an auction somewhere, then a quick transfer to the local dealership here where the original owner bought it. It also has incorrect stuff like an incident with airbag deployment. Haven't bothered with going through the steps to get it corrected.

Looks like you are looking at carfax data. Don't put too much faith into it. It is most likely that data prior to 16k miles was lost or it was in a non-carfax reporting state.

While speaking with the helpful person there, after explaining my story, she did me a favor and emailed me the complete service history on the car. DAVIS is the internal system. It shows it getting it's first oil change and a few other things inside of the first 16k miles. It was serviced in New Jersey with only like 1000 miles for what sounds like an attempted carjacking. Not a lot of info and the "registered owner" doesn't have history, only shows who it was registered to when they last serviced it. Of course that was when he took it in for stuff once he owned it. But nothing that would tell me who owned it prior.

If you have particular means to decipher anything additional from it I can share the DAVIS report with you, but I don't want to post it publically because it might 1. identify the person who gave me the document which is not supposed to happen, and 2. has the previous owners name and address at the time all over it.

[SickFinga]

With all of his stipulations there were only two cars made to his "order". He didn't request a press car per se. He requested all the specifics and the press car is the only one that fit. I wasn't suggesting he asked for "the car used for a review". But indirectly he unknowingly was.

Yeah, it makes sense that a car was found through BMW's inventory matching original owner's specifications and it happened to be a press car.

I did email BMWNA. They told me pretty much only that a Tom Woods BMW was invoiced for it. Tom Woods was a little help but they changed ownership 6-7 years ago and have no records dating back to 1997-1998.

That's very interesting. Maybe that's where it ended up after the press reviews.

Looking at this post
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...3#post26315863

New Jersey is where BMW NA head office is. If you look at all the press car they are registered in New Jersey.

Dealer 20570, is it Tom Woods BMW?

Unfortunately I don't have any access to BMW to decipher those codes. I've been trying to find the list of the dealer IDs for a while now.

[EE05063]

Tom Williams ended up being in Birmingham AL.

Makes sense that it spent time in NJ.

It was serviced at a dealer in Nashville TN at 9100 miles.

I have been persistent and BMWNA insists they have no clue who put all those miles on it or where.

Same story from the major review magazines of the time..... It's just been too long. The original owner was rather surprised to hear of the cars rare nature. That's what he gets for never even doing a title search. He said he did ask the selling dealer for the information on how they got it and the guy told him he couldn't find any records on it other than when they bought it obviously. He shrugged it off as the guy being lazy. Never looked back. I still work with the guy. He bought a 2012 Audi S4 to replace it. He has been nagging me for a ride lol, jokes about buying it back. Jokes on him.

[SickFinga]

Tom Williams ended up being in Birmingham AL.

Makes sense that it spent time in NJ.

It was serviced at a dealer in Nashville TN at 9100 miles.

I have been persistent and BMWNA insists they have no clue who put all those miles on it or where.

OK, so since you car was imported on 10/96 and sold on 11/97 it was reviewed between that time. Did you check Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track magazines? I know you think it might've been reviewed by MotorWeek, but it doesn't look like they have any photos of the car and there was a total of 30 press M3/4/5

Also, I just realized why there is no history prior to 11/97. The car was using manufacturer plates.

[EE05063]

Here's the Davis data sheet info after some cropping only to protect the identities described before.




The previous owner started using a local independent BMW shop among others to maintain it once warranty had expired.

So do dealers never have to title a car? There has to be a title on record to get a tag no?

[SickFinga]

Here's the Davis data sheet info after some cropping only to protect the identities described before.

So do dealers never have to title a car? There has to be a title on record to get a tag no?

Interesting, I'd say check all the magazines that were issued after 12/96. It might pop up somewhere.

Yes, dealer plates can be slapped on any vehicle. That X5 M actually has manufacturer plate which might even allow more leeway. That X5 M is actually euro spec which means it does not comply with US standards.

[EE05063]

Plates I understand. But title. How does a car stay untitled for that long yet get that many miles put on it.

I have contacted Motorweek and Motor Trend and Car and Driver doesn't appear to have ever done a review on one of these. I think the Motor Trend response was that they had a black model. Motorweek said the same thing Tom Williams did, too far back, no records.

Surely someone at BMW would be able to tell me who they issued review cars to. I mean, there has to be a lengthy legal paper trail. The reviewing companies would have to verify receipt and take possession of a car, have it added to a insurance policy, obviously the VIN is the only logical way to do that right? You would think BMWNA had its own records so they knew where their cars were and when right?

Wonder if any of them were based in Nashville TN explaining the 9100 mile oil service there?

[crqflier]

Manufacturer cars that are press rigs get passed all over the place and driven crazy hard by every writer (not the greatest way to begin life as a car). Those cars are not titled. And then if sent to a dealer as a press rig or exec program car or whatever , they are not titled. Dealers can then drive them on dealer plates. Only when the first consumer purchase/lease occurs is a title issued. Yes, someone somewhere somehow at bmwna might be able to locate a history, but that was 15+ years ago, probably 2+ computer system migrations ago, and probably no one there is too concerned about keeping track of that level of detail from so long ago. But keep trying, could be interesting.

[EE05063]

Manufacturer cars that are press rigs get passed all over the place and driven crazy hard by every writer (not the greatest way to begin life as a car). Those cars are not titled. And then if sent to a dealer as a press rig or exec program car or whatever , they are not titled. Dealers can then drive them on dealer plates. Only when the first consumer purchase/lease occurs is a title issued. Yes, someone somewhere somehow at bmwna might be able to locate a history, but that was 15+ years ago, probably 2+ computer system migrations ago, and probably no one there is too concerned about keeping track of that level of detail from so long ago. But keep trying, could be interesting.

Yeah. I have heard the "it could have been flogged" bit before. Sure could have. It's an M3. It was made to take it and I am sure any damage done has run it's course and would have manifest itself long before now if it were outside of the norm. I consider it a free oil pump nut screening. It was owned by a well to do enthusiast it's whole "normal" life so it doesn't bother me. It's actually quite neat for a car to have that potential history to me.

I realize it's an uphill battle but the company I work for recently was acquired by a really large global German owned and based company who actually makes many of the parts for our BMW's. One day I will have an opportunity to get someone over there to hear my story and see if it can be researched. My ultimate goal would be some sort of certificate of authenticity or to be able to connect a picture in a magazine to my car.

[SickFinga]

Plates I understand. But title. How does a car stay untitled for that long yet get that many miles put on it.

Yes, it is possible. Every brand new car in dealer's inventory doesn't have a registration with the state.

I have contacted Motorweek and Motor Trend and Car and Driver doesn't appear to have ever done a review on one of these. I think the Motor Trend response was that they had a black model. Motorweek said the same thing Tom Williams did, too far back, no records.

Surely someone at BMW would be able to tell me who they issued review cars to. I mean, there has to be a lengthy legal paper trail. The reviewing companies would have to verify receipt and take possession of a car, have it added to a insurance policy, obviously the VIN is the only logical way to do that right? You would think BMWNA had its own records so they knew where their cars were and when right?

Wonder if any of them were based in Nashville TN explaining the 9100 mile oil service there?

They definitely should have this information somewhere, but it's most likely in archives.

Motorweek is in Maryland, but they test cars all over the place.

M3 Sedan was also mentioned by Automobile, Buying & Leasing, 1997. Can't find anything about that magazine.

MotorWeek reviewed M3 Sedan on March 3, 1997 can't find the episode or episode number anywhere

[EE05063]

Yes, it is possible. Every brand new car in dealer's inventory doesn't have a registration with the state.



They definitely should have this information somewhere, but it's most likely in archives.

Motorweek is in Maryland, but they test cars all over the place.

M3 Sedan was also mentioned by Automobile, Buying & Leasing, 1997. Can't find anything about that magazine.

MotorWeek reviewed M3 Sedan on March 3, 1997 can't find the episode or episode number anywhere

Yeah I found this website blurb.

http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/roa...7_bmw_m3_sedan

Haven't figured out if there is a more detailed print version of it out there or not.

[SickFinga]

Yeah I found this website blurb.

http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/roa...7_bmw_m3_sedan

Haven't figured out if there is a more detailed print version of it out there or not.

I thought AutoWeek was a TV show. Looks like there is a magazine too. Try to contact seller of this magazine to check if there is an M3 review

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOWEEK-199...item5ae93e3e0f


Edit

Just realized this is AutoWeek. According to a BMW brochure, it was reviewed by them
http://xoib.com/reviews/0-124-manufa...ies-read.shtml

or is it a typo and they meant MotorWeek?

[SD Pete]

Would it be possible for you to PM me a list of the 37 byzanz VIN's?
TIA

[berny2435]

Thanks for the information here!
Interesting how these 4dr E36Ms are as rare as they are. I'm one of 429 total Boston Green Autos and manuals. Mine is probably one of few that has Modena +sport manual seats+fold down rear seats. A long time ago I had the opportunity to get a Hellrot one with modena. I should have snagged that one up!

I like the style better than the 2dr, not to mention the extra headroom and 2drs are great ;-)

8856362971_cf28fed714_z.jpg

[ColdshotM3]

must find avus + mulberry sedan... new life goal right there

[Lowcountry M3]

Cool stuff, I have 1 of 63

[ejszymczak]

99 estoril blue coupe 5 manual! I don't know how many were made but I can at least say it's the only one in my area of Wisconsin that I know of!

[AirDoc]

I am curious about my recent acquisition

1997 M3/4/5 (04/05/97 Prod Date - VIN EE06243)
Non-Sunroof / Slicktop
Estoril Blue
Lux Pack/Wood
Mulberry with Power/Heated Seats
Cruise Control, OBC, A/C, HK Audio
Armrest
Pass-Thru / Folding Rear Seat

Thanks in advance!!

[rafael0800]

What type of M3 is that?

[Rhino7200]

I need to research this thread some more! I have a M3/4/5,

Techno violet / magma. So that is 1 out of 5 !?!?

Can I go further and see how many of those were luxury package, no spoiler, with split rear seats!

That would be interesting to know

[MMMGP]

Sorry all, I don't check this thread often.

Would it be possible for you to PM me a list of the 37 byzanz VIN's?
TIA

Sent.

I am curious about my recent acquisition

1997 M3/4/5 (04/05/97 Prod Date - VIN EE06243)
Non-Sunroof / Slicktop
Estoril Blue
Lux Pack/Wood
Mulberry with Power/Heated Seats
Cruise Control, OBC, A/C, HK Audio
Armrest
Pass-Thru / Folding Rear Seat

Thanks in advance!!

1 of 3 with LUX/folding seats, but I bet the slick-top singles it out. :thumbsup:

What type of M3 is that?

1995 manual, Cosmo on black.

I need to research this thread some more! I have a M3/4/5,

Techno violet / magma. So that is 1 out of 5 !?!?

Can I go further and see how many of those were luxury package, no spoiler, with split rear seats!

That would be interesting to know

1 of 2.

- - - Updated - - -

99 estoril blue coupe 5 manual! I don't know how many were made but I can at least say it's the only one in my area of Wisconsin that I know of!

Check the first post, there is a table which lists out all the interior and exterior colors.

[MParallel]

Think I PM'd you on M3forum where I found these numbers a while ago, asking for the EU numbers, but that "window was closed".

I got a link a few weeks ago to M3portal.com that lists the EU M3 models by color and color/interior combo for those interested.

My Alpine white turned out to be one of 15 AW LHD M3 cabrio's produced, 10 of which with black leather interior. And highly likely 1 of 1 when you take in account the option to not have an audio system installed at all (original buyer was 73 old). No prep nothing. Which in itself is pretty rare. Because of this my convertible does not an aerial on the back (so no hole in the body work).
Which is kind of nice.

[Rhino7200]

Thanks MMMGP. Sharing the wealth. That is some interesting information you can get from that data you have!