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Thread: Vader Restoration: Can these be saved?

  1. #1
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    Vader Restoration: Can these be saved?

    I am going tonight to look at these seats and I have the opportunity to get them for more or less free. I know that they will obviously need new covers but I called an upholstry shop and they told me if the foam is beyond repair that they are worth nothing. Does anyone think these are salvagable? Like I said, I am getting them for more or less free so I will probably buy them either way and if they dont work out sell them again. Let me know your thoughts or experiences. The guy I spoke to said he can get real leather for 1400, vinyl for 800, and around 300 for install. I told him if I was going to go through the trouble to have them recovered that I was interested in a more custom look, possibly with suede/ inserts. Chime in with your suggestions for custom setups too.
    here are the seats I am picking up:


    here are some styles that interest me.


    Last edited by Bianca98; 08-30-2012 at 12:10 AM.

  2. #2
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    They look pretty beat. $1100-1700 is a ton for seats plus restoration. There are plenty of Vaders that sell for $600-800 in really nice shape that require no work at all. Are you just coming up empty locally? Personally, I would try finding a set that's in nice shape ready to bolt in.

  3. #3
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    Yea, I have looked in like a 300 mile radius, no vaders or E46 M seats, which are really the only two replacements I would consider.

  4. #4
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    What's the US deal with Vaders? I genuinely hate them with a passion.

    Not to say that only tiny and small people will actually sit in them with any comfort.

    They don't fit me.
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  5. #5
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    I just think vaders look good. I actually think they look fantastic. However, i am aware that they are better for little guys, and I would deffinitely not qualify as a little guy. That is partially why I was more leaning towards buying E46 M Seats. I just havent found any. I guess its a good point to make though that I could get the E46 seats for possibly even less than it would be to recover these.

  6. #6
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    The E46 M3 seats are nice, but don't match the rest of the interior.

    Yeah, the name Bianca is a giveaway and I didn't expect you to be a little guy...
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  7. #7
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    I think Vaders look fantastic too. They really go well with an E36 interior for some reason. My roommate's E36 M3 has Vaders, while I have the sport seats. We're both average sized people, and the sport seats in my car are far more comfortable than the Vaders. The Vaders hold you in position well (when they're not to lubed up and greasy), but after 30 minutes, they make your body a bit tired. The sport seats hold decent, and are comfortable for hours. As mentioned, the E46 M3 seats are bigger, but they don't really match the interior well.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagerking View Post
    I think Vaders look fantastic too. They really go well with an E36 interior for some reason. My roommate's E36 M3 has Vaders, while I have the sport seats. We're both average sized people, and the sport seats in my car are far more comfortable than the Vaders. The Vaders hold you in position well (when they're not to lubed up and greasy), but after 30 minutes, they make your body a bit tired. The sport seats hold decent, and are comfortable for hours. As mentioned, the E46 M3 seats are bigger, but they don't really match the interior well.
    ^^
    Exactly. And since I'm 6'4 245lbs, sitting in Vaders for more than 10 minutes, starts killing me.

    The sportseats are wide. They are perfect for me.
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  9. #9
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    Those look like my vaders.



  10. #10
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    So lets say You dont fit in Vaders, and you dont like the E46 ///M seats, and you are tired of your E36 seats. What option do you go with from there?

  11. #11
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    Do you have sport seats or comfort seats?

  12. #12
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    E36 had no comfort seats. They're just the basic seats.

    She will have the sport seats.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianca98 View Post
    So lets say You dont fit in Vaders, and you dont like the E46 ///M seats, and you are tired of your E36 seats. What option do you go with from there?
    really awesome fixed back racing seats.

    E46 non-M seats will fit with little modification to the brackets.

    Those vaders are pretty beat. A full re-upholstering job would be needed

  14. #14
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    Clownshoes. I didn't even look at the car. Of course it has sport seats! If you're tired of those and are unsure of Vaders or E46 M3 seats, I'm not sure where you should go. Anything else will look far from factory, and there aren't a ton a good aftermarket choices that aren't really race-y.

  15. #15
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    My racaro vaders are awesome... but im a smaller guy lol

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MParallel View Post
    E36 had no comfort seats. They're just the basic seats.

    She will have the sport seats.
    I'm a dude, bro. Bianca was what I named my 540! my M3 is named Melanie!

    I decided after having done some more research to go ahead and buy the seats if the foam was alright. I got there, it was looking decent. So I brought them home. At this point, I will consider 3 things: 1)find Z3M seats (a good option since they look awsome and also have rear entry fold) and bail on the Vaders 2)find E46 M seats and bail on the Vaders 3)price compare for premade covers (800-1200 depending on options) or going custom (500-1400) and then continue to save up. I'll add the super crappy night shot I took of them yesterday and I will follow up with a better shot of them later. I also picked up for free some 328 coupe door panels with functioning HK speakers and an ellipsoid headlight with a busted glass lense. I needed the speakers and I figured I could get the matching headlight from a vender with a partial kit that got returned after I buy a new lense for it. Thanks for keeping up guys. Opinions on the above listed options are welcomed.




    The better looking vader is upside down and backwards so there is really nothing to look at here, haha.
    Last edited by Bianca98; 08-30-2012 at 12:12 AM.

  17. #17
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  18. #18
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    I'm amazed how little care ppl seem to give in the US . . I havn't seen any Vaders even close as bad pop up anywhere in Europe . . but here I see completly wrecked and dirty Vaders all the time . . what do you guys do to them? . . do you wear pants out of sandpaper?
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  19. #19
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    I actually already contacted them, they said they would do the alcantara and mulberry covers for 1400, and If I chose slightly different materials it would be considerablly less. This seems to be the most tempting option at this point. Full leather for 800 versus 1400 is a good option as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Bomber View Post
    I'm amazed how little care ppl seem to give in the US . . I havn't seen any Vaders even close as bad pop up anywhere in Europe . . but here I see completly wrecked and dirty Vaders all the time . . what do you guys do to them? . . do you wear pants out of sandpaper?
    The bolsters and seat bottoms get effed up because Americans are fat. Americans with enough money to afford a BMW that came with Vaders can also afford to eat alot of food. It also has to do with twisting in the seat while seated. This causes a lot of wear.

    So I had some developments today! I found a guy selling a black set of E46 M seats. Anyone give me a ball park on what these would be worth in perfect shape?
    I also am including pictures of the vaders and the HK speakers!



    Last edited by Bianca98; 08-30-2012 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  20. #20
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    Updates!

    Well, since no one responded early no one saw that the E46 seats were cloth inserts! I was leary of buying them with the cloth being in the condition that they were but I got them from the guy for $400 bucks. Thats less than vader money, than recover money, and so on. It was a good buy for me. The color obviously wasnt a perfect fit for my car, but with the addition of black rear seats, I think the car will pull them off just fine. More to the point, I cleaned them up, and had a seat in them and I am very very please with the fit to myself and their comfort.

    Now I suppose comes the hard part: Installing them. In my reading, I found that you need to replace the E46 seatbelt buckle with the E36 unit. The reasoning for this is because the E46 unit is electric and the E36 unit is mechanical. However, when I looked at the units that are on the Vaders (vaders are power) they are almost identical. I would love some advice on the subjuct, but I am going to continue my own research as well. Enjoy the photos.












    Last edited by Bianca98; 08-30-2012 at 12:19 AM.

  21. #21
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    Nice write up man. Im a bigger dude and looking for new seats and didn't know the e46 was better option. Thanks man!
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianca98 View Post
    I will consider 3 things: 1)find Z3M seats (a good option since they look awsome and also have rear entry fold).

    Here is some info. I know this as I have a Z3 (and have had 3 others).


    A) They DO NOT have rear entry fold. Why would they? The Z3 is a 2-Seater.

    B) The 'Z3M' seats are not exclusive to the M, they were optional on any 97-02 Z3 (coupe or roadster).

    C) The Z3 Sport Seats / M Seats do not fully recline nor do they fold forward very much at all.


    These would be a terrible, terrible choice for a 3-Series.
    -Dusty


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36ic4Me View Post
    Here is some info. I know this as I have a Z3 (and have had 3 others).


    A) They DO NOT have rear entry fold. Why would they? The Z3 is a 2-Seater.

    B) The 'Z3M' seats are not exclusive to the M, they were optional on any 97-02 Z3 (coupe or roadster).

    C) The Z3 Sport Seats / M Seats do not fully recline nor do they fold forward very much at all.


    These would be a terrible, terrible choice for a 3-Series.
    Thanks for the info and crossing that option off my list. If you look though Im on to fitting some E46 seats. I am currently very deep into dismantling the Vaders. I have the pretensioners loose from the frame, but the wiring harness is stuck under the seat pan, not sure if there is a zip tie I cant see or if the pressure of the foam on the pan is just keeping it down. SOO, note to self for round two. Pull the harness as far as you can one towards the connector end and remove the connector, then pull through and reattach the connector. Im kinda pissed at myself for even trying this on the Vader. The driver's side is going in the trash tomorrow unfortunately. The foam is toast, cover toast, and it will have no seatbelt. I dont even really feel that bad about trashing it! haha

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Bomber View Post
    I'm amazed how little care ppl seem to give in the US . . I havn't seen any Vaders even close as bad pop up anywhere in Europe . . but here I see completly wrecked and dirty Vaders all the time . . what do you guys do to them? . . do you wear pants out of sandpaper?
    We are extremely fat which hurts seats. I have a 1988 For Bronco (which you probably don't know of because it wasn't sold in Europe. It was the OJ getaway car) and the previous owner must have been huge because the seat fabric is in perfect condition but the foam is gone. Also the seat brackets are cracked! Something I have never seen.

    Some people bought m3s for the status symbol of the car over the quality and performance that most people in Europe purchase for.


  25. #25
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    Bigger Update!

    So the question remained, how do you install E46 seats with pyro pretensioners, into the E36 that would either A)have mechanical pretensioners or B) electric pretensioners but have different wiring? Well, My 99 is sure to have electric pretensioners (though i have not yet checked for sure). The trashed vaders that I bought had electric pretensioners so I may have just gotten lucky here. MPar was the first person I saw ANYWHERE to give a cohesive thought to solving the issue. He stated to simply swap the pretensioners from the sets of seats to retain the stock pretensioners on the new seats. Everybody with me so far? People say this is a daunting task they would not attempt. I am by no means a person of above average skills or intelligence so I was leary to start tearing apart my new seats. I can now Tell you that the hardest part of the process for me was getting the Vader pretensioners loose of their frame. otherwise it was all just torx or star bolts and unclipping hooks as I went. Here are my photos from the process and some commentary.
    Here is the guide I used to dismantle my driver's vader, I only had to get to like step 7/removing the seat pan to accomplish what I needed:http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1165757

    There is a zip tied black cover over a yellow wiring plug. You can slide the clip tie off, pull off the clip and pull the plug straight out.




    Here is where I ran into my issue. The two wiring pieces run through the seat pan and they are zip tied. One zip tie was hidden by one of the motors and I didnt see it, and I got both pieces of wiring stuck inside the seat.


    So I began the teardown process. It made quite a mess.


    Here is where it was caught in the pan.


    Once removed it was completely free.




    The two units look damn near identical though they have different part numbers and the E46 unit has 4 wires total, unlike the E36 unit with 5.


    Here is the unit Bolted straight up. The mounting bracket was slightly different and thus it changed the angle of the buckle a little but I like the result considering its all OEM hardware direct bolted in.




    An interesting wiring tag.



    Here is the entire E46 unit removed. It is mounted on a metal bracket and placed into the community yellow harness. One of the wiring pieces is removable from the community piece but one is not. I was concerned that I would end up cutting the piece out after all but moments later it dawned on me to just remove the piece of wiring that I wanted to keep from community piece! GREAT SUCCESS!





    My E46 seats had busted glass in the nooks and crannies so I was fairly certain these were removed from a true wreck. In my examination of the pretensioner, I found this hypothesis to be confirmed. It is fully retracted, a sure sign that it was a "spent" unit.


    Ok final thoughts for the evening. All said and done, I am left with 3 stock harnesses. Two are for the E36 seatbelt and pretensioner. 1 is the E46 heated seats I believe. I didnt know if they had heated seats but the color of the remainning harness tells me this. I will follow up with pictures of that wiring as well tomorrow when I go for the install. If you are going to attempt this DIY you will absolutely need a large and small set of Torx bits. In dismantling the Vader and installing the pretensioner I used a T45, 40, 27, and a 20. Anyways, wish me luck tomorrow. As always, thoughs and advice are welcome.





    A Woodchuck to all and to all a Good Night.
    Last edited by Bianca98; 08-30-2012 at 12:37 AM.

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