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Thread: NCS/INPA/EDIABAS Update errors

  1. #1
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    NCS/INPA/EDIABAS Update errors

    When I update my DATEN/ECU/SGDAT folders with V46 files using the recommended total commander program, I end up with COAPI and version language mismatch errors when connecting to my E39, E83 vehicles. Before the update, I had no problems connecting with the same cars. Before the update, INPA/NCS/EDIABAS all work correctly, but after the update, the programs all report back errors.

    It is a good thing I made back up copies as recommended and when I replace the folders with the back up files, everything work good as new again. Anyone know why, as I followed all the suggestions in the how-to threads.
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    I had language errors when updating my daten file as well and i never figured it out. Just went back to the older files and all is well... Where can i get total commander?

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    Quote Originally Posted by purplecty View Post
    I had language errors when updating my daten file as well and i never figured it out. Just went back to the older files and all is well... Where can i get total commander?
    Shareware version will work for 30 days without registering.

    http://www.ghisler.com/
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    You don't need total commander.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robstah View Post
    You don't need total commander.
    Then how come every other thread I read out there recommends the program? The threads usually warn that if update is done manually, there is a very good chance that newer files may be overwritten with older files by mistake and really mess things up. (although seems that I cant get it to work properly anyway after an update)

    May I ask, how you would recommend updating the daten files? What has worked for you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayster0966 View Post
    When I update my DATEN/ECU/SGDAT folders with V46 files using the recommended total commander program, I end up with COAPI and version language mismatch errors when connecting to my E39, E83 vehicles. Before the update, I had no problems connecting with the same cars. Before the update, INPA/NCS/EDIABAS all work correctly, but after the update, the programs all report back errors.

    It is a good thing I made back up copies as recommended and when I replace the folders with the back up files, everything work good as new again. Anyone know why, as I followed all the suggestions in the how-to threads.
    Firstly, the language mis-match errors are not normally anything to worry about. They normally happen because you’re using a mixture of German Metric *.prg and *.grp files, and English Metric *.ipo files. Since the *.prg and *.grp files from the ISTA-P discs are allways in German, it's somthing we just have to live with. As long as you don’t mix Metric and Imperial files (which would throw INPA’s internal calculations way out), you will be okay.

    The COAPI (Coding Application Program Interface) error, is probably down to an incorrect configuration file(s) i.e. you’ve accidently copied a file you shouldn’t have, rather than the newer *.prg, *.grp and *.ipo files.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAL View Post
    Firstly, the language mis-match errors are not normally anything to worry about. They normally happen because you’re using a mixture of German Metric *.prg and *.grp files, and English Metric *.ipo files. Since the *.prg and *.grp files from the ISTA-P discs are allways in German, it's somthing we just have to live with. As long as you don’t mix Metric and Imperial files (which would throw INPA’s internal calculations way out), you will be okay.

    The COAPI (Coding Application Program Interface) error, is probably down to an incorrect configuration file(s) i.e. you’ve accidently copied a file you shouldn’t have, rather than the newer *.prg, *.grp and *.ipo files.
    These maybe a stupid questions but I really would like to learn; is there a way to seperate and make sure that I dont mix up the metric and imperial files? Should I only update the the above mentioned file types(in their respective groups) and not update entire folders?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayster0966 View Post
    These maybe a stupid questions but I really would like to learn; is there a way to seperate and make sure that I dont mix up the metric and imperial files? Should I only update the the above mentioned file types(in their respective groups) and not update entire folders?
    It's not a stupid question, it's a very valid one in fact. Lets look at the *.ipo files for INPA first:

    Checking these is relatively straight-forward. If you open each module file for your car(s), and look at the Info section, it will show either English Metric, English (which is English Imperial) or German (which is obviously German Metric).



    Now we need to look at the *.prg files contained within Ediabas (C:\Ediabas\ECU), as these are critical to INPA. You can check each *.prg file manually by using Tool Set 32 and running the INFO job...



    …however, with such a large number of files, it’s not really a practical solution. If you suspect that you have mixed Imperial and Metric files by mistake, then your best option is to simply overwrite your current *.prg and *.grp files with fresh ones from a recent ISTA-P disc.

    Moving on to NCS: Start with your old install and update the following using ISTA-P data.



    What COAPI error does NCS report, when you are trying to code?

  9. #9
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    FAL, I really want to thank you for taking the time to help us fellow members out with this. I know a bunch of us are having the same problems when it comes to errors after doing the updates. I will be checking out my setup as you have posted and will post updated info later on.
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    I have read elsewhere to avoid any errors that you should backup the ECU folder and place it back after the update. Fal thanks for your help on this, I think many have questions such as Jays but fear of asking.
    Fal are these updates only important for newer models and to keep up with newer models or are they necessary for lets say an old e38 or x5. Iam assuming these updates are only necessary for newer vehicles but BMW throws in the old models as well to complete a package software.

    I have read some of you other posts, and have to ask, how did you learn all this. Any source where we can go to that breaks down inpa, ncsexpert, toolset, winkfp and ediabas. I would love to learn more about these software as they are very powerful indeed.
    Last edited by bass528; 06-08-2012 at 05:33 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayster0966 View Post
    FAL, I really want to thank you for taking the time to help us fellow members out with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    Fal thanks for your help on this, I think many have questions such as Jays but fear of asking.
    No problem, always happy to help when i can. If you’ve got questions and you think i might be able to help, don’t be afraid to ask. That’s what these types of forms are for - an open exchange of information and ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    Fal are these updates only important for newer models and to keep up with newer models or are they necessary for lets say an old e38 or x5. I am assuming these updates are only necessary for newer vehicles.
    As a general rule of thumb, yes. If you’re constantly “chasing new models” like me, then updating your databases on a regular basis is critical. If however, you only want to work on older cars that are no longer in production and you’ve found a Standard Tools set-up that you’re happy with, then i’d say leave the databases alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    …but BMW throws in the old models as well to complete a package software.
    Yes. These software tools are used not only in a production and internal rework environment, but also by engineers out on the road, so i would assume that BMW leave them in just in case an engineer encounters a problem with an older model at main dealer/agent. Besides, the INPA chassis menu is easy to configure using a simple tool like Windows Notepad, so it’s not a big issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    I have read elsewhere to avoid any errors that you should backup the ECU folder and place it back after the update.
    Yes, i’ve read that myself. I guess that’s one way of doing it, but it defeats the object of updating the *.prg and *.grp files in the first place. As i said, if you only want to work on older cars that are no longer in production, this won’t be a problem. If however, you want to work on newer models, this will cause problems in the long term. *.grp or group files contain information about a specific ECU family and are used by Ediabas to select the correct *.prg or SGBD - Steuergeräte Beschreibungsdatei (English: ECU description file), when trying to communicate with an ECU. Each *.prg file contains “jobs” which are named to suit their particular function. A job is a command or work-order, used by Ediabas to perform a function or retrieve data from an ECU. As the ECU changes in terms of software updates and hardware revisions, so does the specific *.prg file, growing in size and containing more jobs. *.prg and *.grp files are used by all programs in the Standard Tools kit, by INPA to retrieve diagnostic information, by NCS to read or write coding data and by WinKFP/NFS to control the flash-programming process. A new *.prg file used with an ECU with old software or hardware is normally fine, but an old *.prg used with an ECU with new software or hardware may suffer from part-functionality or no functionality at all. An old *.grp file may not be able to identify a new member of a specific ECU family. Let me try and explain, using Active Roll Stabilisation on a new E70 and INPA as an example…

    Active Roll Stabilisation on an E70 uses the D_ARS.grp file and the ARS_70.prg file. If we compare two different versions of the ARS_70.prg, v0.300 from 2004 and v7.001 from 2011, we see that a number of new jobs have been added, including STATUS_SG_TEMP which reads the internal temperature of the ECU, for example.


    If we have a reasonably new version of the ARS_70.ipo file, or if we write our own *.ips file in the C programming language, we would find this kind of information at the beginning of the file:
    string titel = “Active Roll Stabilisation for the E70, E71 and E72 (X5 and X6)“;
    string version = "1"; //This is the version number of the *.ipo/*ips
    string origin = "FAL"; //This is the author of the file, in this case me
    string sgbd = "ARS_70/V7.x"; //This is the *.prg required for the *.ipo/*ips and the minimum version required to use it
    string gruppe = "D_ARS"; //This is the required *.grp file
    Further within the file, we would also find:
    INPAapiJob (sgbd,"STATUS_SG_TEMP","",""); //This is the example job
    INPAapiCheckJobStatus ("OKAY"); //This is the returned value from Ediabas, to show that the job has been executed correctly
    ftextout ("The current internal temperature of the ECU:",4 ,1, 0,0); //This is the text that will appear on the INPA screen and its position
    INPAapiResultText (text_var,"STAT_SG_TEMP_WERT",1,""); //This is the result of the job returned by Ediabas
    stringtoreal (text_var,zahl_var);
    realtostring (zahl_var,"2.2",text_var); //This is the conversion to change the string result from Ediabas, into a two digits to two decimal places result
    ftextout (text_var,4,12,0,0); //This is the result that will appear on the INPA screen and its position
    So obviously, if we try to use an old ARS_70.prg file with a new ARS_70.ipo file, INPA will not be able to perform the STATUS_SG_TEMP job. This is the reason why INPA performs a version check on the ARS_70.prg before using it, to avoid this issue. This does not apply to all *.ipo/*ips files, but does to many newer versions.

    Looking at NCS next, i've already explained where the files go, in a previous post so i'm not going to repeat that, but let’s look at the first two files you can update and why. They are the E**AEDOC.000 and E**ZST.000 or E**AT.000. E**AEDOC.000 is a NAEL (New Release and Changes List) file for each chassis. This must be located in C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN, but not in the sub-folder. So for this example we are looking for E70AEDOC.000. It contains information strings about part number, changes to coding files and such things as the NCRL Number, which is shown in top right-hand-corner in NCS. So for this information string example:

    07-03-500 ARS_70 C12 [EFZ50.V, d] Parameter for M57 for H_ROLLZENT, KL_L_VOREIL changed

    So, we now know that the coding file ARS_70.C12 was introduced at I-Level 07-03-500, and features Function Key Word (FSW) changes for the M57TU2D30 engine. The updating of E**ZST.000 or E**AT.000 files, depends on whether your car uses the ZCS coding key system or the FA/VO system. Chassis that use the ZCS system need the ZST file and chassis that use the FA/VO system need the AT file, with the exception of the E46 chassis which uses both (due to the change-over happening during the chassis production life cycle). So for this example we are looking for E70AT.000. These files contain information strings about the codes contained within the ZCS or FA string. So for this information string example:

    W GY02 N0412 E70 S63B44 RL ECE XENONLICHT REGENSENSOR ASD //(S63B44O0) //X5 M RL 05/09 -

    So, we now know that the NCS coding chassis code GY02 that would appear at the beginning of the FA string (E70_#0311&GY02%0668… ), and means that the car should be a E70 X5M, right-hand drive United Kingdom specification, fitted with Xenon lights and manufactured after May 2009. Now let’s look at the E**SGFAM.DAT file, that is located in sub-folder C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\E**. This contains information about the files used for the coding process. So for this example we are looking for E70SGFAM.DAT. If we compare two different versions of the E70SGFAM.DAT, from the 4th of March 2008 and from the 6th of July 2011, we see that a number of new ECU families have been added.


    So, the ARS_70.prg file has appeared again, in the C_SGBD column, meaning that it is the *.prg file used for coding the Active Roll Stabilisation. In the first column on the left, we have SG or ECU family names, then CABD which are special *.ipo files used for coding and then ZCS and FA columns. Since the E70 doesn’t use the ZCS system, a zero digit appears next to all of the ECU families. It does use the FA/VO system, but in the case of the Active Roll Stabilisation ECU, no FA/VO data is stored within it, so again we have a zero digit. So to code an E70, we know we need the ARS_70.prg file located in C:\EDIABAS\ECU and now we know that we also need the A_E65CR.ipo file located in C:\NCSEXPER\SGDAT. I’m not going to show a complete example, but if we briefly compare two different versions of the A_E65CR.ipo, version 1.01 from 2001 and version 1.04 from 2011, we would see that new jobs have been added as well as additional trace files.


    To code the Active Roll Stabilisation ECU, we also need the correct ARS_70.C** coding file located in C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\E**. I won’t go into detail about this because IIRC, other members have explained it in great detail before.

    I hope that is of use to you guys, and perhaps clears up some of the questions you had?

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    Fal I appreciate the extent you took on explaining this. I have read this over and over trying to comprehend. I tried to open PRG files in foxpro but no luck, was only interested to read some of the values in these files and get familiar with all the extensions that are loaded in this neat system. .ipo, .prg, .prg and how they work to together.
    Fal I love my Inpa 5.0, its working great and would hate to jeopardize its performance by a blind update online. so unless I know what Iam doing I will not touch it by just installing newer versions of Inpa.


    Here are my goals and I imagine every inpa user, to add the models that Im missing without messing with the inpa version. Now Im not sure if this is possible, since as you post above

    string sgbd = "ARS_70/V7.x";
    //This is the *.prg required for the *.ipo/*ips and the minimum version required to use it


    A new IPO file would have this string, not allowing me to use it below certain inpa/ediabas versions.

    So Fal is is possible I add for example the e63 and e64 6series models to my inpa and if this works then I would like to add the newer e90s. First I would like to practice with one model and test it.

    If its possible ( and Iam searching hard as I ask this as well) can you kindly provide step by step on how to add missing models to your inpa, if its possible of course.
    And also how to add that button in the inpa menu for that new added model, I assume I would need to edit an INI file somewhere, but Im not sure.

    sorry for the bother Fal, if we learn how to update 1 model then we can be on our own updating the rest. Whats your take on this?
    Last edited by bass528; 06-10-2012 at 12:52 AM.

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    Ok ill pay to have my inpa 5.0 look like this. This is from another member on this forum, some wonderful work there.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    Ok ill pay to have my inpa 5.0 look like this. This is from another member on this forum, some wonderful work there.
    Definitely, that version of INPA looks about as complete and up to date as it can get. Some very interesting questions put up by Bass528 and am going to wait anxiously for the answers by the pros.

    To add, if updating only later model vehicles (E46, E60.....) will the sub menus for those particular models be in German now? Just as Bass528 states, I am interested in updating the later models only and adding more in.
    Last edited by jayster0966; 06-09-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    I tried to open PRG files in foxpro but no luck, was only interested to read some of the values in these files and get familiar with all the extensions that are loaded in this neat system. .ipo, .prg, .prg and how they work to together.
    I did try to explain the best i could, how this stuff all fits together. Sorry about any confusion. This should explain a bit better, how the different file types work together:


    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    Here are my goals and I imagine every inpa user, to add the models that Im missing without messing with the inpa version. A new IPO file would have this string, not allowing me to use it below certain inpa/ediabas versions.
    The Ediabas *.prg and *.grp are the key to the INPA, NCS and WinKFP/NFS systems. If you update the databases within INPA, NCS, etc. but don’t update the Ediabas databases, eventually you’ll find yourself in a situation where INPA, NCS, etc. won’t work properly because they can’t call the new jobs from within Ediabas, because they don’t exist in the old *.prg or *.grp file. Make sense? So, it’s a compromise and you have to live with the annoying little language mismatch errors to retain functionality on modern cars. The only way to retain full functionality with modern cars AND remove the language mismatch errors, is to either modify the *.prg files to an English language format, once you've bypassed the password-protection on each *.prg. That’s not something that most members here are going to want to even attempt.
    Quote Originally Posted by jayster0966 View Post
    To add, if updating only later model vehicles (E46, E60.....) will the sub menus for those particular models be in German now? Just as Bass528 states, I am interested in updating the later models only and adding more in.
    No, the sub-menus will be in English (or any other language you want to write them), but some of the more modern *.ipo files are in German only (unless translated by hand in to English).
    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    Ok ill pay to have my inpa 5.0 look like this. This is from another member on this forum, some wonderful work there.
    I think that’s member DavidMC’s work. I’ve never spoken to him personally, but if you read his posts he’s highly experienced in this stuff, so maybe worth contacting for additional input on the subject

  16. #16
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    Fal, just for clarity sake, it is better to update the the folders by

    A. replacing the entire folder(s) from the V46 files?

    B. right clicking on the group of files that I would want to transfer then copying them to the older folders? (clicking yes to prompts of replacing only older files with newer files?


    Sent you a PM.
    Last edited by jayster0966; 06-10-2012 at 03:41 AM.
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  17. #17
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    I dont mind the language mismatch error at all, its harmless and get them now, all I do is continue and the rest of the job is flawless. By all means Iam not looking to do away with this error and dont mind if I have an good updated inpa with such error. I dont think anyone should be concerned with this error. Thanks again for your input on this.
    That was indeed Davids work, would like to get mine at this level, there should be a sticky on how to do this ( why not?), as every member that owns inpa wouldnt mind having theirs to look like this, especially if theyre testing family and friends cars and always coming across various models. I hope one day the proper steps get posted and stickied on this forum. Will be the ultimate diagnostic tool.
    Last edited by bass528; 06-10-2012 at 03:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayster0966 View Post
    Fal, just for clarity sake, it is better to update the the folders by
    A. replacing the entire folder(s) from the V46 files?
    B. right clicking on the group of files that I would want to transfer then copying them to the older folders? (clicking yes to prompts of replacing only older files with newer files?
    B, always B. If you replace the entire folder from ISTA/P you may lose some important files.
    Quote Originally Posted by bass528 View Post
    That was indeed Davids work, would like to get mine at this level, there should be a sticky on how to do this ( why not?), as every member that owns inpa wouldnt mind having theirs to look like this, especially if theyre testing family and friends cars and always coming across various models. I hope one day the proper steps get posted and stickied on this forum. Will be the ultimate diagnostic tool.
    In very, very basic terms, to update INPA for new chassis models you need to:
    1. Find out which control modules are fitted to that new chassis.
    2. Locate the correct *.prg files for those modules.
    3. Locate the correct *.grp files for those *.prg files.
    4. Locate or write the correct *.ipo files for those *.prg and *.grp files.
    5. Write a *.eng menu file for those *.ipo files.
    6. Write a new INPA *.ini file to include the new *.eng menu.

  19. #19
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    I think we need two stickies, how to update inpa and how to update ncsexpert. The difference between updating and manipulating the files to work from Ista into ncs and inpa. Fal, and David MC I highly thank you for the effort you took in adding to this thread, and although Davi MC has not contributed to this particular thread, his other threads has helped answer plenty of my questions. We have a few good men in here, pleasure meeting you all. Back to experimenting with this. Im currently playing with Inpa 3.0, 5.0 and inpa 10, ediabas 6.4.3 and 6.4.7, avoiding the ediabas update from the latest version of inpa10, and replacing this folder with an older version of ediabas..

    Here are Davids comments on this as they accommodate this thread on updating inpa not ncs.

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...s#post24365794


    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...s#post24365794

    Well get there.

    Ok heres where Iam

    Installed inpa 3.0, then installed not updated inpa 5.0 then installed inpa10, starting from step2 in the winrar folder of inpa10.

    Iam now left with two directories, the 5 and 10 merged nicely in ec-app folder while the 3.0 sits in c:\inpa

    How do I combine the two?

    I also left the ediabas folder alone during the inpa10 install and it worked fine without updating my ediabas to 7. Not sure why it didnt update to ediabas 7

    Also I was supposed to erase or hide the ediabas folder during inpa10 install, when I did this the first time it was looking for a ediabas\bin file and would the program would nver finish installing inpa 10 and is the reason why I left it in place. It needed an existing Ediabas folder to complete the install. Lets say I hid the ediabas from inpa10, and used my older version of ediabas 6.4.7, wouldnt we loose the updated ecu folder? Any valuable data here? My updated ediabas with inpa10 6.4.7 is different size then my Ediabas 6.4.7 from inpa5. Strange findings.

    Got everything working out.

    If anyone is interested in this, heres a link to inpa 3, 5 and 10. Iam not sure if everyone wants to start with inpa 3.

    I will leave this link active while the thread is alive or until a dedicated thread is made on how to install inpa.

    The instructions are a courtesy of David MC and Fal previous threads.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z988pgj2vktl0uv/FIjxsPIjG7

    Download share enjoy.
    Last edited by bass528; 06-11-2012 at 06:42 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  20. #20
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    Thanks for all the links bass528. Great way to get everything organized in one place. Now to download and try and do this on my system. I am in need of all the help I can get on this.

    FAL, Sent you a PM last night. Pls read, and thanks for all the help as well with this.
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  21. #21
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    to base528
    you say in your post that you, "Installed inpa 3.0, then installed not updated inpa 5.0 then installed inpa10, starting from step2 ." surley you should update from v3 to v5?

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    May 2006
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    Bensalem, Pa
    Posts
    598
    My Cars
    2000 528i 2000 740iL
    Going from 3 to 5 I dont think you can update, as 3 installs in c:\ and 5 installs in c:/ec-app. Then you should take those files and combine manually. This is all experimental to me, I can try to update to see what happens again.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    england
    Posts
    335
    My Cars
    1998 bmw m3 coupe smg
    according to the instructions text.


    Courtesy of David MC

    Once you have installed INPA v3.01, you will have a c:\INPA folder and a c:\EDIABAS folder. When you update to INPA v5.02, accept the default settings, which will create a folder called c:\EC-APPS containing INPA.

    not sure what difference it makes,but im sure inpa/ediabas install exe will detect a previous version and ask if you want to delete or update. if you delete ,then its a waste of time install v3 in the first place,perhaps david can clarify.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    4,280
    My Cars
    E70 3.0sd E21 323i
    If you point an update to your existing INPA installation (i.e. c:\INPA) the update process will result in all existing files in that folder being replaced (i.e. old c:\INPA\CFGDAT folder will be overwritten with a new c:\INPA\CFGDAT folder etc). This results in the loss of earlier files which may not be contained in the update. Installing the update to the default location (c:\EC-APPS\INPA) creates a new updated INPA installation, allowing you to physically copy the content of the various folders and paste them into the corresponding folders in your existing c:\INPA installation, thereby expanding, rather than replacing the folder content.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bensalem, Pa
    Posts
    598
    My Cars
    2000 528i 2000 740iL
    Thanks to Dave and Fal for helping members of the forum on this. Playing with inpa is becoming a hobby/addiction after seeing how powerful it was detecting problems in more details then other tools.

    Fal Im getting this error when I try to open a PRG file in toolset32, is this an indication of a bigger problem? Here is the error

    EDIABAS Fehler 28 : IFH-0018: INITIALIZATION ERROR.

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