Auto Repair from Hell

[Foty]

I recently got in an accident and the rear passenger suspension + side skirt got damaged. Long story short, I towed it to an auto body shop with really good reviews who said he could fix it (the trailing arm, upper/lower control arms, axle were damaged).

He ended up not being able to do the job and outsourced it to some mechanic URGH I know... red flag, but I couldn't wait any longer and just wanted the darn thing fixed. The mechanic ended up installing what I believe are 95 M3 parts on my 97 M3. The rear passenger wheel is now positioned closer to the rear bumper. Can you someone help confirm if this is because he installed 95 parts on my 97?

Here are pics:

Non damaged side of my car (rear drivers side):



Damaged side mechanic replaced with wrong parts:



The shop is opened M-F, I'm plan on calling him to on Monday and ask him to fix all of this free of charge. But I don't even trust him doing the work anymore (if he even agrees to). What should I do?

[MasterKwan]

95

01 Trailing arm, left 1 33322227077 $919.56 +core
01 Trailing arm, right 1 33322227078 $919.56

97

01 Trailing arm, left 1 33322227985 $919.56 +core
01 Trailing arm, right 1 33322227986 $919.56 +core

My impression though was that the only difference was the balljoints.

[scooper]

axles are different. 95s are smaller and solid. obd2 m3 axles are bigger and hollow. I'd ask him to get the axles for a 97 (bigger and hollow). Otherwise, there shouldn't be much adverse effect running it as is. Get a discount on his work and source some obd2 axles later. But since he got those from the junkyard you might as well ask him for the 97 ones. As for lower bushing/balljoints, you can visually see what's in there. Yours should have ball joints and should match the other side. That's more critical.

[EricP]

I read in a thread that you could in theory use the 95 axle as it's identical other than being solid and thinner.. not that I would.

As for being positioned closer to the wheel I would check the lower control arms and the trailing arms, make sure you have new rear trailing arm bushings + shims if you are going stock and get it aligned.

[MasterKwan]

I wouldn't want '95 trailing arms because they don't have the upgraded balljoints. If you just drive it on the street, that probably doesn't matter. for-aft placement of the wheel is set by the trailing arm. Does the trailing arm have an M stamp cast into it? I wonder if they got the RTAB bracket installed properly. I've heard of people installing them upside down so, the rtab isn't in the pocket.

[Jrrrrrrr]

OP, what leads you to believe the mechanic installed 95 parts? From your pics, it looks like he somehow installed a driver-side upper control arm on the passenger side (or a driver-side control arm with the inner bushing pressed in backwards) -- which would be hard to pull off since the spring wouldn't sit straight. The upper control arms are directional and have an L or an R cast into them to determine the side of the car they go on. I can't recall if that mark is on the topside or underside, but you should be able to spot it with just the PS wheel removed.

Does the trailing arm have an M stamp cast into it? I wonder if they got the RTAB bracket installed properly. I've heard of people installing them upside down so, the rtab isn't in the pocket.

Good sugestion, and takes less than 5 minutes to check out.

[tjm3]

Spend a few more bucks and take it to a shop where they know the cars. Get them to make a list of deficiencies, then go back to the original shop (if they had a hand in this) and the shop that did the work. Don't give them the chance to justify bad work, bad parts and bad judgment. You may not need to do this, but at least be ready.

[scooper]

I wouldn't want '95 trailing arms because they don't have the upgraded balljoints. If you just drive it on the street, that probably doesn't matter. for-aft placement of the wheel is set by the trailing arm. Does the trailing arm have an M stamp cast into it? I wonder if they got the RTAB bracket installed properly. I've heard of people installing them upside down so, the rtab isn't in the pocket.

You can press in the x551 ball joints on the lower outers, but obviously if they haven't been done you're going to find the 95 bushings in there instead.

OP, what leads you to believe the mechanic installed 95 parts? From your pics, it looks like he somehow installed a driver-side upper control arm on the passenger side (or a driver-side control arm with the inner bushing pressed in backwards) -- which would be hard to pull off since the spring wouldn't sit straight. The upper control arms are directional and have an L or an R cast into them to determine the side of the car they go on. I can't recall if that mark is on the topside or underside, but you should be able to spot it with just the PS wheel removed.

Good sugestion, and takes less than 5 minutes to check out.

The second set of pics depict 95 m3 axles. They are thinner and solid. As for the control arms, driver's side has an odd ending part number and passenger side has an even ending part number. PN's are found on the bottom near where the endlinks pop out. The arms are angled towards the front of the car ever so slightly and the longer part of the bushing (inner uppers x247) face the rear. I just cleanly pressed a set of these out yesterday. Go talk to your soon-to-be-ex-mechanic again and get some satisfaction. If you were around DC I could help you.

[estorilduck]

Spend a few more bucks and take it to a shop where they know the cars. Get them to make a list of deficiencies, then go back to the original shop (if they had a hand in this) and the shop that did the work. Don't give them the chance to justify bad work, bad parts and bad judgment. You may not need to do this, but at least be ready.

If you care about your car do this. The onus of responsibility is on you. If you can demonstrate that your mechanic acted negligently or ignorantly you will not have any issues with getting any problems that arise from this "fix" remedied--the only question is whether the mechanic will realize that you are serious when presented with an itemization of problems or if you have to take the issue to court.

[Foty]

You can press in the x551 ball joints on the lower outers, but obviously if they haven't been done you're going to find the 95 bushings in there instead.



The second set of pics depict 95 m3 axles. They are thinner and solid. As for the control arms, driver's side has an odd ending part number and passenger side has an even ending part number. PN's are found on the bottom near where the endlinks pop out. The arms are angled towards the front of the car ever so slightly and the longer part of the bushing (inner uppers x247) face the rear. I just cleanly pressed a set of these out yesterday. Go talk to your soon-to-be-ex-mechanic again and get some satisfaction. If you were around DC I could help you.

I'm guessing that all the rear suspension parts are from a 95 M3 because I know for sure the axle he installed is from a 95 as a few other posters have pointed out. I'm not sure if the rest of the suspension parts (control arms and trailing arm) is from a 95, and that was something I hope posters here could help me confirm. I'm inclined to say all the parts he used are from a 95 because he did mention that he sourced the entire rear passenger assembly together.

Also, yes the trailing arm does have an M stamp on it. The bushing is old and they didn't follow my instruction of installing a poly urethane bushing I provided to match the other side. Would this really cause the wheel to be set back towards the rear by about 1inch?

I read somewhere that the 95 control arms are slightly different than 96+ and mount slightly differently. Could this be the cause? I may just take some of your advise and take it to a shop that really knows these cars to point out all the deficiencies.

[MasterKwan]

Also, yes the trailing arm does have an M stamp on it. The bushing is old and they didn't follow my instruction of installing a poly urethane bushing I provided to match the other side. Would this really cause the wheel to be set back towards the rear by about 1inch?

I read somewhere that the 95 control arms are slightly different than 96+ and mount slightly differently. Could this be the cause? I may just take some of your advise and take it to a shop that really knows these cars to point out all the deficiencies.

BMW manufacturing tolerances being sort of shitty, your problem might just be the result of mismatched arms. As far as I know, all E36's use the same rtab pocket and body location.

You should just take it back to the body shop, show them the difference in gap and see what they say. I'd mention that the '95 arms aren't the same as the '97 arms and that you think it was a mistake to use the '95's without updating the balljoints. The first thing you should do is take it back and give them a chance to make it right.

[Foty]

BMW manufacturing tolerances being sort of shitty, your problem might just be the result of mismatched arms. As far as I know, all E36's use the same rtab pocket and body location.

You should just take it back to the body shop, show them the difference in gap and see what they say. I'd mention that the '95 arms aren't the same as the '97 arms and that you think it was a mistake to use the '95's without updating the balljoints. The first thing you should do is take it back and give them a chance to make it right.

Is there a way I can confirm for sure that the trailing arm is from a 95? Are the part numbers stamped somewhere on it?

Yes, I plan on bringing it back to the mechanic and expect him to completely disagree. But I want to be sure that the parts are actually incorrect, and really IS the cause for the wheel set back. Btw, thanks everybody for the help so far.

[99MPower]

axles are different but interchangeable with no ill effects

if u install ball joints in the upper/lower location in the trailing arms, then they are the same


95 and 96 geometry is different on the front control arms, NOT in the trailing arms

[MasterKwan]

Yes, I plan on bringing it back to the mechanic and expect him to completely disagree. But I want to be sure that the parts are actually incorrect, and really IS the cause for the wheel set back. Btw, thanks everybody for the help so far.

Mechanic? Unless you paid the mechanic directly, you should go back to the body shop. They're the ones who contracted out this work. If you paid the body shop, they're the ones that should fix this.

Did you get it aligned? Alignment on a good machine should tell you if this is a real problem or just something in your head. Hell, maybe the bumper's not on right and the suspension is fine.

[Foty]

Mechanic? Unless you paid the mechanic directly, you should go back to the body shop. They're the ones who contracted out this work. If you paid the body shop, they're the ones that should fix this.

Did you get it aligned? Alignment on a good machine should tell you if this is a real problem or just something in your head. Hell, maybe the bumper's not on right and the suspension is fine.

The shop told me they aligned the car afterwards, but I don't know what type of machine they used.

I figure I'd go straight to the mechanic to cut out the delay in response, and to get clear communication with the person who's actually working on my car. As for the the wheel which appears to be set back, the body shop guy pointed it out himself and said the frame might be bent and needs pulling, which will cost $300 just to put it on the rack to find out (BS?). But I'm all skeptical of this now because of the parts used, though 99MPower says there is no geometric differences between the 95 and 96+ trailing arms.

[Hova]

axles are different but interchangeable with no ill effects

if u install ball joints in the upper/lower location in the trailing arms, then they are the same


95 and 96 geometry is different on the front control arms, NOT in the trailing arms

This.

[scooper]

there may very well be differences in rear trailing arm geometry. 95 m3 PN is x227 078. 97 M PN is x227 986.

My M rear wheels sit a bit back from center whereas it looks like obd2 M3 rear wheels are centered in the wheel well (more or less). I put 95 M3 rear suspension components on the 328is and it sits centered, however I still have the non-M subframe in there. So the difference could be the M3 rear subframe. I have read, however someone said the geometry of the M and non-M rear subframes are the same. I have no proof of this though.

OP, get under the car and get the PNs for the rear trailing arms to confirm. I'm guessing they should be stamped on the bottom. Then go to another shop and get a confirmation from them. Then go back to the original shop and ask them to make you whole.

[MasterKwan]

Ought to be able to figure this out with a tape measure too. rtab pocket bolt to lower and upper balljoint for instance.

[tjm3]

Foty, do what I recommended. The longer you wait and the more you f$ck with it the more chance of the shop saying they released it in good shape and you broke it. Obviously, this makes an assumption that the shop may be on the shady side. We don't know this. Fact is, it's not right no matter how many part numbers you come up with. And if you bent trailing arms and axle shafts, who's to say that something else isn't bent under there. Get a written eval, write the BAR hotline number across the top and then show it to the shop if you need to.

[Foty]

Foty, do what I recommended. The longer you wait and the more you f$ck with it the more chance of the shop saying they released it in good shape and you broke it. Obviously, this makes an assumption that the shop may be on the shady side. We don't know this. Fact is, it's not right no matter how many part numbers you come up with. And if you bent trailing arms and axle shafts, who's to say that something else isn't bent under there. Get a written eval, write the BAR hotline number across the top and then show it to the shop if you need to.

Yes, I plan on doing this. I just hope the bmw shop I plan on going to now will be able to accurately point out all the deficiencies. Can't seem to always trust reviews on Yelp. Also, what do you mean by "write the BAR hotline number across the top?"

[tjm3]

What's your location? I took the Ca to mean California. Maybe.

[Foty]

What's your location? I took the Ca to mean California. Maybe.

California Bay Area. I know there are quite a few reputable shops in the area like Edge Motorworks, but that's too far and I gotta get to work M-F. I'll have to check in with other local less reputable ones.

[tjm3]

BAR. California Bureau of Automotive Repair. Consumer watchdog agency, with teeth.

http://www.bar.ca.gov

Doesn't Dinan still have a service center in Mountain View?

[MasterKwan]

BAR. California Bureau of Automotive Repair. Consumer watchdog agency, with teeth.

You don't know what he asked the body shop to do. They might be 100% in the right and the OP just has sour grapes because his attempt to cheap out the repair failed. Unless he has the work order in writing, it's "he-says-she-says". I can imagine several scenarios where what he ended up with is what he asked for.

For example, say he went to the body shop and said "I need you to fix the side skirt and replace the right rear suspension". If they did that and the problem is really that the subframe is bent or the body. I'd say that's the OP'S fault. The fact they didn't put it on the frame machine when they worked on it suggests that this might be what happened.

On the other hand, if he want in and simply said "fix it" and paid them, and it's not fixed right, that's on the body shop.

Not every shop is a rip-off. Sometimes the problem is unreasonable customers. We just don't know what really went down here. We don't even know if his problem is a real problem.

[Foty]

You don't know what he asked the body shop to do. They might be 100% in the right and the OP just has sour grapes because his attempt to cheap out the repair failed. Unless he has the work order in writing, it's "he-says-she-says". I can imagine several scenarios where what he ended up with is what he asked for.

For example, say he went to the body shop and said "I need you to fix the side skirt and replace the right rear suspension". If they did that and the problem is really that the subframe is bent or the body. I'd say that's the OP'S fault. The fact they didn't put it on the frame machine when they worked on it suggests that this might be what happened.

On the other hand, if he want in and simply said "fix it" and paid them, and it's not fixed right, that's on the body shop.

Not every shop is a rip-off. Sometimes the problem is unreasonable customers. We just don't know what really went down here. We don't even know if his problem is a real problem.

I agree with what you're saying. I simply took the car to the shop to get a quote to get it fixed. He gave me 2 quotes, one with used parts, another with new parts. I decided to go with used parts and he agreed to install used parts for me. He ended up not being able to do it, and sourced it to another mechanic who found the used parts and installed it. If the frame really is bent then that's fine, I will pay to get it pulled and fixed.

However, if it's because the mechanic ordered the incorrect parts (which I will attempt to confirm though a reputable shop), then I believe it would only be right for him to own up to it. As for the car never being put on the frame rack, this was due to the body shop telling me it won't be available until mid next week. And the last thing I'd want him to do is to pull the frame and what not, when it's actually the suspension components that are wrong. I guess all of this is nothing more than speculation at this point until I get confirmation.