E38 1/2jz...really?

[redciv1]

Thanks for the pic. I contacted the owner that had that car. He was a member of the BMWMalaysia site. Waiting on a reply.

[redciv1]

Sorry for the long gap. Waiting to close on a house and living with sister in the meantime. I finally heard from the owner of the e38. 2jz in Malaysia. Ironically, he sold the e38 for a MKIV Supra. Apparently labor is cheap in MALAYSIA and the work was done by his mechanic and consequently alot of the details he could not recall. Parts of email conversation below.

"well the electronics part was handled by my wireman. seems that almost everything was working bar the electronic suspension, which i had to custom to standard shocks. o yeah the alarms too didnt work. so i installed an aftermarket unit. seats, air conditioning. clusters all work. bear in mind the bmw diagnostics too didnt work cos the ecu was not used. but the toyota engine diagnostics was working."

" shaft was custom selded to the bmw read axle, engine mounts was custom fabricated, bmw stock radiator was used back , my mech actually was able to custom mount the 2jz rad fan to the radiator and make it run of the toyota radiator fan sensor. pretty nifty work. everything looked stock actually. i might have an old engine bay picture . will dig it out"

" yup, fan is from 2j, rad is from bmw e38 "

" kinda hard though , as i sold the car about a year back. didnt keep that many pics. i got a supra to drive around now... but frankly speaking i felt the 2jz was lacking in torque at lower RPM's, only a big v8 can deliver. my transplant car was a 740iL long wheel base and weighed almost 2 tons!"

[DieselGhost]

Well, I would prefer the 2JZ in the E38 for several reasons. First of all, I would actually prefer the verticle mount for ease of access to everything. And being that the E38 is such a heavy car, I would want about 700 RWHP. Which is much cheaper and easier to get out of a 2J that can handle about 1000hp on stock internals where as the M52 is only good to about 450 RWHP. Don't get me wrong, I love my turbo M52 in my E34 but I am now just about maxed b/c of turbo size restriction and stock internals.

Sorry brother, but where do you see a 2J that produces 1000hp on stock internals..... meth maybe... but a M50B25 will make 850hp on meth with studs alone !!!

So i would always prefer a M50 block with M52B28 internals.... over a 2JZ !!

*forgot to mention*

you will nedd M20B20 connecting rods aswell... but still... stock sourced internals will make 850+hp on meth and studs alone !!!

[Jaze]

Google it, 2jz's do it so often its not even a big deal. They all do run meth though.

[wanganstyle]

Google it, 2jz's do it so often its not even a big deal. They all do run meth though.

the HEAD cannot breathe nearly as well on the top end of the 2j.
Thus HKS full head kit. Works wonders but also costs...

the difference between 800rwhp and 1,000rwhp over is a head package and bottom end build if you want to stay in one piece at 9,000 RPM++

2j's do 9k yes; and when the head is built it makes INSANE power for the last 7500-9000rpm's. basically a big turbo honda motor with cams.

all 2JZ OEM cams are very mild. 800rwhp is usually the limit for stock head stock cams. Works very well there. very few VVTi motors also compared to BMW 24V with vanos or double vanos.

No double vanos 2J = smashing pumpkinds SADness

the BMW heads flow more aggresively stock vs stock; esp the ITB 6 throttle varients.

1,000 hp reliably from a stock un-built 2JZ is BS.

2jz does fail even fully built with CP pistons/eagle rods/JE full head and crower head set.

If pushing a big barge like a e38 perhaps a 1UZ + supercharger? or doing a turbo with the OEM v8 engine?

[Jaze]

You're right about cams, and valve train but a BC valve train and cams is dirt cheap.

A bmw motor couldnt acheive it any easier though.

[wanganstyle]

You're right about cams, and valve train but a BC valve train and cams is dirt cheap.

A bmw motor couldnt acheive it any easier though.

for Performance cylinder heads, BMW smokes toyota all day long.

BMW makes these engines called //M engines that come in cars with a WBS vin number; the real //M engines have individual throttles like a RB26DETT.

these real WBS //M motors have shim under bucket solid lifters avail and high cams from the factory. Doing a fully built undershim+cams setup on a 2jz cost is NOT CHEAP.


If building a weapon start from the best; most modern item avail. Then you get the best results;
Costs are moot in the long run; many 2jz people have spent over 10k on the power set up alone and still don't have reliability or power.

The S54 is the spiritual successor of the 2jz-gte; Trust me I love 2j more than anyone else I know.....but the advancement of the S54 head is = fully built 2j to the MAXXXXX

Have you ever torn down a s54 and compared it? very similar but the s54 parts are nicer, beefier, stronger and more built OEM.

~ 280/282 degrees is OEM cams and passes smog OEM (s54b32).

280 deg cams on a 2jzgte is moot unless you spend $2k additional on getting the head built+shimless under bucket lifter conversion + OS valves and high rate springs.

I'd still rather have a OEM BMW S54 head than a $4k built 2JZ head with a HKS catalog thrown at it. its Madness if you understand it.



S54 head ports is ridiculous - I don't think my money can make a 2J head that nice.

S54 in stock form makes power over 8400rpm; its oiling is much advanced; 2j loves to spit out Genuine toyota front main seal and cam seals.

the advancement of Dual vanos is incredible for spool up and tuning ability.


on paper and in reality; its pretty clear.


drop pistons in the BMW S54 engine and boost away. Headwork and cams costs much more than pistons - even at BMW premium markup a set of 6 forged slugs is not over $1k.



Sending a 2j head to BC for full build will be quite a bit more - and you still need forged slugs for the 2J; the OEM toyota Hyper-cast pistons are durable but HEAVY.

A Original MK4 Supra 2jz-GTE with proper 6mt tensioner support parts is not really any cheaper than a S54 to acquire; the s54 takes both ZF6 speed and Getrag 6 speeds natively from the BMW factory.

V161/V160 is a decade older and 2x the money. Why even bother? Making massive power is useless if it cannot get to the ground in a sophisticated manner I have played the R154/w58 game and decided it was not worth my time. V160/v161 is not worth my money-

[DieselGhost]

the HEAD cannot breathe nearly as well on the top end of the 2j.
Thus HKS full head kit. Works wonders but also costs...

the difference between 800rwhp and 1,000rwhp over is a head package and bottom end build if you want to stay in one piece at 9,000 RPM++

2j's do 9k yes; and when the head is built it makes INSANE power for the last 7500-9000rpm's. basically a big turbo honda motor with cams.

all 2JZ OEM cams are very mild. 800rwhp is usually the limit for stock head stock cams. Works very well there. very few VVTi motors also compared to BMW 24V with vanos or double vanos.

No double vanos 2J = smashing pumpkinds SADness

the BMW heads flow more aggresively stock vs stock; esp the ITB 6 throttle varients.

1,000 hp reliably from a stock un-built 2JZ is BS.

2jz does fail even fully built with CP pistons/eagle rods/JE full head and crower head set.

If pushing a big barge like a e38 perhaps a 1UZ + supercharger? or doing a turbo with the OEM v8 engine?

To me this sounds like the best solution, the 4.0/4.4 V8 will produce an insane amount of torque when supercharged...

I can see where a studded M62B44TU with a supercharger/turbochargers could make 800hp easily, and be used as a daily driver...

And torque... i can only imagine, with 800hp... 1000nm+ sounds about right!

Don't forget.... with a heavy car like the E38... you should rather be focusing on torque rather than horsepower...

Maybe a BUILT M57TU2D30 should be in order... i can see where this would make 400hp-450hp and over 1000nm...

My E60 530d did a 13.7 1/4mile pass @ 108mph... with only a map... 320hp & 722nm... and 1850kg Curb Weight... c.a. 2050kg with me at the wheel and a full tank of Diesel...

Torque matters !!!

[redciv1]

Very good discussion. If I can interject. I am not doing this swap because I feel like the 2jz is the absolute best motor, but more of a personal goal of completing the swap. Bit by the turbo bug driving my Saab and now want something bigger, growing kids, and different. I really did think about keeping the M60/62 v8but the cost of replacing the chain/chain guides as regular maintenance alone could come close to 2jz purchase. The 1uz idea seems like a viable option, however that motor seems to have little support when it comes to aftermarket and forced injection.

[Wide Turbo 5]

Well, I would prefer the 2JZ in the E38 for several reasons. First of all, I would actually prefer the verticle mount for ease of access to everything. And being that the E38 is such a heavy car, I would want about 700 RWHP. Which is much cheaper and easier to get out of a 2J that can handle about 1000hp on stock internals where as the M52 is only good to about 450 RWHP. Don't get me wrong, I love my turbo M52 in my E34 but I am now just about maxed b/c of turbo size restriction and stock internals.

And the (dependability) of the 2jz-Gte is unmatched even at 900 + whp on with stock internals... Youve done your research well because you are 100% rite on your facts about what the 2jz-gte is capable of... Take it from someone who has owned and built multiple high horse power Widebody Mark 4 Supra's and has been a part of the Supra community for many years. That's what motor I have for my 2003 E39 except mine is built and fortified with forged internals + a built head....... All ready for the all new Garrett GT 5541R forged billet turbo that's good for 1850 all boost whp..

The maintenience on a high horse power turbo BMW engine will drain your pockets dry!!!! A good friend of mine, Saad from Saad Racing is building turbo BMW motors now and there having major dependability issues.........

[BimmerBreaker]

Why not just run an M52 and put a turbo on it? 1JZ/2JZ engines don't offer anything over a BMW I6 at 600 rwhp or less really.

What do a 300HP and 800HP Supra have in common?

They both run 14s

Haha jokes aside, the JZ is a great engine. I would love to see one in an E38. You could probably get some crazy power numbers and go drifting in a big 7. Drifting a 740iL with a 600HP JZ? Yes, please!

[wanganstyle]

What do a 300HP and 800HP Supra have in common?

They both run 14s

Haha jokes aside, the JZ is a great engine. I would love to see one in an E38. You could probably get some crazy power numbers and go drifting in a big 7. Drifting a 740iL with a 600HP JZ? Yes, please!

lol ya.

I've been @ the TX mile staged behind the underground racing TT lambo when it pulled 248, 249 and 250mph. We brought a single turbo RHD J spec hard top JZA80 MK4; only managed 174mph with 515rwhp or so. The senior citizen next to us with his family and brand new stock Camaro SS 2010 did a 170mph (he was down 100 hp just had better torque band).

And the (dependability) of the 2jz-Gte is unmatched even at 900 + whp on with stock internals... Youve done your research well because you are 100% rite on your facts about what the 2jz-gte is capable of... Take it from someone who has owned and built multiple high horse power Widebody Mark 4 Supra's and has been a part of the Supra community for many years. That's what motor I have for my 2003 E39 except mine is built and fortified with forged internals + a built head....... All ready for the all new Garrett GT 5541R forged billet turbo that's good for 1850 all boost whp..

The maintenience on a high horse power turbo BMW engine will drain your pockets dry!!!! A good friend of mine, Saad from Saad Racing is building turbo BMW motors now and there having major dependability issues.........

2jzgte..... is not that great honestly. Been there done that, paid for 0 mile full 2jzgte rebuild also. its OK; not great.
the 2j is great but an antique; might as well be boosting up a FJ20 or RB26dett; All great engines but they are just vintage beasts now.
Ive had a full OEM stock 2jz-GTE fail; also a fully built 2jz-GTE with CP pistons, eagle rods, JG built head with Crower full head works - also fail

the most ideal stock engine to boost in I6 format is either:

Cummins disel 5.9

or

Nissan Patrol petrol 4.0

obviously it has to fit...



the BMW I6 motors have more reliable oiling systems than the 2j; 2j loves to blow out genuine toyota front main seal, crank and cam seals. BMW's dont have those issues as they are chain drive and the front/rear main seals are bulletproof. All day long there are threads of supra people having oil leaking issues; I had the same on a fresh 0 mile motor with all new seals from toyota.

These are facts from my own personal experience- things like this don't mean anything to dyno/show queens - but if you DRIVE the car to what its tuned to (140mph-170mph++ pulls) then you would understand these things from actual experience.

BMW M52/S52 is a buy anywhere day and Turbo boost up with remapped OEM ecu and electronics - one can call TRM, technica and others to get one of these full setups.

2jz-gte ecu cannot be re-mapped stateside; so a AEM/brain of your choice, or piggy backs up the wazoo are needed.

2JZ is also capped at 3000 OEM. BMW small 6 is 2800-3200cc OEM; and can stroke to 3300cc with OEM crankshaft- Try pricing out a 3200-3400cc stroker kit from HKS or titan for a 2j..

Discplacement/tuning is everything. Turbo anyone can just buy from garrett-

[Paytoncw]

I’m building a 2001 740i m sport 1jzgte VVTi swap currently

[Liquidity]

I’m building a 2001 740i m sport 1jzgte VVTi swap currently

K

[RulyLSX]

Hey five, I appreciate the comments. I have nothing against the LSx motors, but once you go boost it's just addictive. Have a stock Saab 9-3 and contemplated upgrading to Stage 3, however the 9-3 is small and I need more room. I love the E38, however FOR ME, it just makes more since to put in the 1/2JZ drivetrain and bump up power from there. Waiting on E-Shift to reply to email about the wiring harness. I see they did the dual ECU's for the M5 and that makes since with it being OBD2, so I am anxious to see mount wise if it would work. I will keep informed though. More comments on whether mounts for e39 v8 and e38 V8 are the same.

Just boost the LS, win win :P

[tptrsn]

I’m building a 2001 740i m sport 1jzgte VVTi swap currently

Do you have a build thread on it? I will definitely subscribe, and many others I'm sure.

[lapd1989]

I’m building a 2001 740i m sport 1jzgte VVTi swap currently

Keep us posted