E53 X5 4.6is or 4.8is ???

[pkortuno]

I apologize if such question appears here too often. I read many of such treads on US and European forums. But didn't get a straight answer. Also, except air-suspension, I didn't read any specific E53 problem, which doesn't exist with its brothers E39 / E38 for pre-2004 and E60 / E65 for post-2004 X5.
Situation: we currently have 2001 750iL and 2000 M5.
Needs: Need an SUV for my family, preferably 4.6is or 4.8is. Handling, tight suspension, engine torque and nice interior is more important than fuel economy. However, if V8 are too bad on X5, ready to live with I6
Questions: given e53 X5 shares many common problems with e38 and e39, which I've learned over last 6 years working with my BMW:
(1) where should I be very careful looking for E53, except very well known air-suspension components? Is N62B48 engine really as problematic as people claim? If so, any specific issues with M62B46 (developed by Alpina?)
(2) Is regular N62 4.4 more problematic than M62B46 of 4.6is?
(3) Is 6-speed tranny of 2004+ X5 any better than old 5-speed of pre-2004 x5 and relible?
(4) should we better consider E70 x5?

Guys, please help me to choose the right X5 for us. If somebody changed E38 to E53 in past, please share your impression. Will I regret?
Also if you know somebody is selling a clean X5, please let me know. Although I love our M5 and 750iL, almost ready to trade one of them for very-very clean X5

[markiemark]

+1. I'm looking for the same......

[bizlur]

The guy I bought my 4.6 from said definitely 4.6. He said the 4.8 was rushed because they were trying to take back the title of fastest production SUV from Porsche.

The 4.6 is just a bored out 4.4 which was already tried and true basically.

But this is just what he told me, I don't have long term experience yet.

[pkortuno]

from what I've read so far, 4.8is has more issues with new N62 engine, new 6-speed transmission and even front differential (not sure 4.6is and 4.8is share it). But when it's on the road, folks tend to like 4.8is more. More I read about X5, more I realize e39 and e38 much more reliable, perhaps due to simplicity of the chassis.

[igotbank]

pkortuno, i own an 03 4.6is blk/blk 74k all options except NAV and aluminum running boards that i love to death. even after having to replace the bitch ass GM tranny BMW thought would be a better fit than the ZF tranny and the valley pan gasket and the liquid cooled altenator job lol. its a great sav and handles its own in the snow. to these were the most expensive jobs. ive had it since 56k. i have a friend who had an 06 4.8is. he also liked it but started having issues with the air suspension, headlights and then the motor. he had to have the motor replaced which cost bmw 30k. he subsequently traded it in and bought an imola x5m...bastard. in my opinion the 6spd auto tranny only offers better fuel economy over the 5spd. sport mode on the 4.6is is nuts. im on thr thruway alot and cruise at 90mph when traffic allows. i def love driving my 4.6is and it's def alpina tuned...all 4.6is were. i havent had any motor issues to date. if you get a 4.6is get the e46 smg steering wheel and the smg conversion kit so you can utilize the paddles. any dinan parts are a + too. so beside oil changes, brakes and coolant(blew a hose) i've spent 4k on the rebuilt zf tranny with warranty, 700 for a rebuilt altenator and 500 for the valley pan gasket job. what i paid also included labor. if i did it again i def would but i'd get a warranty lol. get a 4.6is...they're rarer too. Oh I've had no issues with the rear air ride system either. since the price of gas doesn't scare you, you can pick up a descent 4.6is for a great price. you can always pm me if you have questions and/or check out xoutpost.com

[bizlur]

sport mode on the 4.6is is nuts.

Agreed. One of my e36 M's was an auto, and even its sport mode doesn't compare to the 4.6.

[dannypiv]

I know someone who is selling a clean 4.6is!!!

[tone]

Def. agree with igotbank. just luv my 4.6is, I have had the ride for almost 10yrs and major expense so far, alternator, brakes, battery, control arms, and soon have to get the good old tranny rebuilt, oh forgot to mention I have 135k, but the engine is still tight and smooth. My cous had the 4.8is but was not too happy with it minor problems here and there, (could be just that one). ended buying astroil blue 4.6is and loves it...hit me up with ??..GL with the hunt.

[OnUrleft]

I have a 4.8iS.

Personally after having a face lifted X5, I would never want a pre 04' model. The nose and the interior just looks completely dated and IMO is, as the original design is 13 years old.

The "rushed" "trying to take back their title" is complete crap. The car was due for a facelift/update and that's what the 4.8is, better in almost every area. Not to mention cars like the Jeep GC SRT-8 and ML63 arrived at this time, which can decimate a 4.8iS

When choosing the 4.8iS the main reason, other than the obvious visual and interior improvements it came down to fuel mileage.
I wanted a 4.6iS because the Dinan and general aftermarket was larger, I could essentially supercharge, intercooler and if I wanted, could do methanol injection and make over 500hp with instant throttle response. Awesome
The downside, besides the obvious was it just wasn't worth it. A tank of premium for these cars is over $100, and in the city w/ the 5 speed it's not uncommon to see 12-15mpg, and 15-17mpg on the highway driving relatively conservatively.

Now the 4.8iS 6 speed auto (although flimsy, est 120-140k mile life) does a great job of saving gas. In drive it does an excellent job shifting to save gas and for city driving this is what you'll be trying to do @ $100 every 350 miles.. I get 15.5-17.5mpg city and 19-21.5 mpg highway. I get about 18.5-19.5 going 80-90mph. On my route from Atlanta Ga to Athens (up elevation, highway with red lights) I routinely get 21mpg with no traffic going 65-75mph.
The cool thing is, now the aftermarket has grown for the 4.8, should I need it. OE Tuning offers are guaranteed 35hp gain (30rwhp proven on a 750i) and better fuel economy. 395bhp puts me right behind at a Stg1 supercharged 4.6iS and I have better gearing and much better fuel economy.
Want to go bigger? ESS now offers a roots/twin screw supercharger which is a much better unit the the Dinan kit. Without any methanol injection I can expect 490bhp.

The downside to the 4.8is. The transmission is just flimsy. I am not tuning or supercharging my car because at 95k, i'll be needed a new one by 120-130k as it's starting to hesitate. However, ANY X5 that tows or gets driven relatively hard will need this replaced eventually except the I6 with a manual trans.
Also, the air suspension... This in itself is a reason to not get the V8 models. When it goes out it's expensive, but luckily there are far better air bag units then the crappy OEM bags that offer great warranties. Mine had 2 bags replaced and the control module (a cool 2 grand), but again, my X5 has had a very active life off road in the North Ga. Mountains year round, towing my M3, and even substitutes as my rainy day track car when the slicks are on my car

[pkortuno]

thanks for your answers and sharing your experience. Helps a lot.

Trying to summarize and ignoring slight difference of the exterior, which is personal preference - 4.6is is more reliable with only one real issue being a transmission while 4.8is although more expensive may surprise with engine, transmission and air-suspension problems. I would ignore better gas millage since the difference is minor and it makes no sense to talk about fuel economy of high-performance heavy SUVs (sorry SAVs).

Is 4.6is' transmission unique or was is installed on X5 4.4i or e38 740i as well? It's scary that 100k miles is average transmission life on 4.6is. e39/e38 easily go above 150-200k miles (that's being said tranny on my 2001 750iL was rebuilt at 75k miles but 1998 740i had no issue at 180k miles).
Interesting to note, that Alpina didn't mate ZF 5-speed auto-transmission with 400hp S62 engine for Alpina Z8 for US market due to "too weak tranny for too powerful M5 engine". Instead, Alpina brought Z8 with less powerful 4.6i engine from 5-series Alpina B10 (perhaps, the same as in X5 4.6is) with ZF 5-speed auto. Does this mean 50 hp and slightly less torque makes a large difference and is enough to protect the gear-box? Hard to believe... I would conclude that 5-speed tranny on Z8 is working on its limit with 4.6 engine. And if X5 4.6is has the same tranny, no surprises it goes sooner than usually. Don't you think?

Regarding 4.8is, you would find many posts disclosing issues with first generation of "new" (at that time) valvetronic N62 engine as well as new 6-speed transmission installed on early 545i, 645i, 745i and X5 in 2004-2006. BMW fixed those issues with N62B48 engine and revised tranny for post-2006 550i, 650i, and 750i. So, "regular" pre-2006 X5 with V8 may suffer from those engine/transmission issues. The question is whether X5 4.8is got exactly the same revised N62 4.8 engine, which was so good on post-2006 e60 550i and e65 750i or was it slightly tuned N62 4.4 to 4.8 with all its problems? The same question about transmission.

Since both 4.6is and 4.8is have such confirmed issues by 70-100k miles and it's not easy to find low millage e53 X5 in 2012, we may stay with classic RWD Bimmers for a while. I doubt 4.6is handles better than 750iL in sport suspension mode, not to say about M5

[willamD]

I have a 4.8iS.

Personally after having a face lifted X5, I would never want a pre 04' model. The nose and the interior just looks completely dated and IMO is, as the original design is 13 years old.

The only difference with the interior on the 4.8is is a smaller, fatter steering wheel. Everything else is exactly the same.

Having driven both models back to back before buying the 4.6is, I prefer the 4.6is for strange reasons. For me, the styling is better, I don't like how BMW brought the kidney grilles out of line with the headlights I thought the original design was more balanced.

More than anything I enjoyed the performance of the 4.6is more. It feels lighter and more chuckable - because it is. The 5 speed automatic felt more responsive than the 6 speed to me. Overall the 4.8is was too comfortable, too refined, and too heavy feeling for me.

130k on mine now and the biggest expense has been tires.

To the best of my knowledge the transmission is essentially a 4.4 transmission, just tuned differently.

[pkortuno]

Well guys. Just bought 2005 4.8is from the second owner. 130k miles. Full service history on hands. Very good (not ideal) shape. Brought it to the local BMW dealership for the inspection. They didn't find anything but suggested to stay away from any N62 engine above 100k miles (burn oil) and from air-suspension. Everything works properly on this X5 and I took the risk. Will start with replacing fluids everywhere.

[Gator325525]

I wouldn't do it, man. An E39 M5 (arguably the best M-car ever built) and E38 are both better cars than an E53. Unless you're going to be towing stuff or hauling lots of things around, I would think an E38 would be more than enough room for your family.

[pkortuno]

Changed fluids in transmission, transfer case, rear differential this weekend. I have to confirm now - 4.8is is better than 4.6is. In regular "D" mode, tranny is very smooth. "S" mode is crazy! It predictively downshifts and holds the gear as I would do with the manual transmission. Very happy with my choice so far.

[PANZ3R]

I have to confirm now - 4.8is is better than 4.6is.

What really matters it that you're happy with your pick. Win-Win situation IMO.

Congrats on your new X5, sounds like you're enjoying it.

[Gurjit]

d0nt 4get pan0 r00f issues!!!!
i fixed my r00f and n0w its time 2 get rid 0f the air suspensi0n light

airide w0rks, ride height selecti0n d0es n0t
inactive light is 0n

[PANZ3R]

Is 4.6is' transmission unique or was is installed on X5 4.4i or e38 740i as well?

5HP24 for 4.6iS Trans: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=24007512588
Plate with cooling duct: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=31116758754

There are many unique parts to the 4.6iS some big and obvious, some small and subtle.

[Germancarz]

Useing this comparison to help me decide between the 4.6 and 4.8. honestly driving them back to back the 4.8is seems to pick up right where the 4.6is left off. Its a polished version of the 4.6 in short.
It has definitely more response when cruising @ hwy speeds over the 4.6 Noticeable more pull from a stand still, feels stiffer in off and on ramps, And when I thought the 4.6 sounds good the 4.8 sounds great. The 4.8 and 4.6 brakes are about the only thing that are comparable. Honestly only thing thats makes them seem comparable is on paper but real world driving the 4.8 is the better truck only being derived from the 4.6is its everything +.
The 4.6is prices are very reasonable right now the 4.8is are still high. Boths transmissions have there problems the 6spd lasts a bit longer, If maintained they will give a longer life span and a yearly check can help catch the bits before they become a great deal of a problem. The lifetime fluid leads the previous owners to believe they dont need service, and a connector seal thats a common leaking problem with any of the new style GM transmissions used in BMWs is a fairly quick and easy fix/maintenance that can render the transmission of loosing fluid burning out the clutches in side. To top it off theres no vehicle year to date with air suspension that is bullet proof, its all in haveing the sources to fix and locate the problem in which these air systems are not tough to figure out.
The 4.8 gives a few more miles per gal which a great considering thee added power.

[pkortuno]

just want to share my opinion after having 4.8is for almost a year and driving it back to back with e39 M5 and e38 750iL. 4.8is is closer to M5. The engine is very responsive. It's like opening the throttles (well, lifting the valves) directly, not through gas pedal. You just touch the pedal, and it jumps ahead. Just like M5 in a Sport mode. The steering is very sharp. Minimum body roll - sway bars are thick! Transmission left a mixed feelings... Its up- and downshifts are quick, but... I could not learn how to predicts the shifts. Therefore, I usually drive in manual mode, which still has delays. I like the smooth and very predictable shifts of 750iL or sharp manual gearbox of M5. Suspension left a very positive impression. It's sharp in turns and... very comfortable. The interior is roomy and large windows. So, I'm not disappointed in X5 after e39 and e38. But wife drives it (and she loves it!) while I still prefer 750iL for every day cruising and M5 for weekends... Different world... Different accents.

[dannypiv]

just want to share my opinion after having 4.8is for almost a year and driving it back to back with e39 M5 and e38 750iL. 4.8is is closer to M5. The engine is very responsive. It's like opening the throttles (well, lifting the valves) directly, not through gas pedal. You just touch the pedal, and it jumps ahead. Just like M5 in a Sport mode. The steering is very sharp. Minimum body roll - sway bars are thick! Transmission left a mixed feelings... Its up- and downshifts are quick, but... I could not learn how to predicts the shifts. Therefore, I usually drive in manual mode, which still has delays. I like the smooth and very predictable shifts of 750iL or sharp manual gearbox of M5. Suspension left a very positive impression. It's sharp in turns and... very comfortable. The interior is roomy and large windows. So, I'm not disappointed in X5 after e39 and e38. But wife drives it (and she loves it!) while I still prefer 750iL for every day cruising and M5 for weekends... Different world... Different accents.

Willing to sell my 4.8is if you're interested, padoomayti

[Ramm328]

dannypiv I may be interested in your X5. PM me with details.

[dannypiv]

dannypiv I may be interested in your X5. PM me with details.

Pm'd

[dinan e39]

pkortuno, i own an 03 4.6is blk/blk 74k all options except NAV and aluminum running boards that i love to death. even after having to replace the bitch ass GM tranny BMW thought would be a better fit than the ZF tranny and the valley pan gasket and the liquid cooled altenator job lol. its a great sav and handles its own in the snow. to these were the most expensive jobs. ive had it since 56k. i have a friend who had an 06 4.8is. he also liked it but started having issues with the air suspension, headlights and then the motor. he had to have the motor replaced which cost bmw 30k. he subsequently traded it in and bought an imola x5m...bastard. in my opinion the 6spd auto tranny only offers better fuel economy over the 5spd. sport mode on the 4.6is is nuts. im on thr thruway alot and cruise at 90mph when traffic allows. i def love driving my 4.6is and it's def alpina tuned...all 4.6is were. i havent had any motor issues to date. if you get a 4.6is get the e46 smg steering wheel and the smg conversion kit so you can utilize the paddles. any dinan parts are a + too. so beside oil changes, brakes and coolant(blew a hose) i've spent 4k on the rebuilt zf tranny with warranty, 700 for a rebuilt altenator and 500 for the valley pan gasket job. what i paid also included labor. if i did it again i def would but i'd get a warranty lol. get a 4.6is...they're rarer too. Oh I've had no issues with the rear air ride system either. since the price of gas doesn't scare you, you can pick up a descent 4.6is for a great price. you can always pm me if you have questions and/or check out xoutpost.com

this is incorrect. please do your homework before making such a claim. Alpina had nothing to do with the 4.6 M62TU for the X5.

[jaym540i]

pkortuno, i own an 03 4.6is blk/blk 74k all options except NAV and aluminum running boards that i love to death. even after having to replace the bitch ass GM tranny BMW thought would be a better fit than the ZF tranny and the valley pan gasket and the liquid cooled altenator job lol. its a great sav and handles its own in the snow. to these were the most expensive jobs. ive had it since 56k. i have a friend who had an 06 4.8is. he also liked it but started having issues with the air suspension, headlights and then the motor. he had to have the motor replaced which cost bmw 30k. he subsequently traded it in and bought an imola x5m...bastard. in my opinion the 6spd auto tranny only offers better fuel economy over the 5spd. sport mode on the 4.6is is nuts. im on thr thruway alot and cruise at 90mph when traffic allows. i def love driving my 4.6is and it's def alpina tuned...all 4.6is were. i havent had any motor issues to date. if you get a 4.6is get the e46 smg steering wheel and the smg conversion kit so you can utilize the paddles. any dinan parts are a + too. so beside oil changes, brakes and coolant(blew a hose) i've spent 4k on the rebuilt zf tranny with warranty, 700 for a rebuilt altenator and 500 for the valley pan gasket job. what i paid also included labor. if i did it again i def would but i'd get a warranty lol. get a 4.6is...they're rarer too. Oh I've had no issues with the rear air ride system either. since the price of gas doesn't scare you, you can pick up a descent 4.6is for a great price. you can always pm me if you have questions and/or check out xoutpost.com

The 4.6is never came with a GM tranny only ZF 5HP24 units. So your tranny that was replaced was an original ZF unit being replaced with a ZF unit.

[Trasportador]

this is incorrect. please do your homework before making such a claim. Alpina had nothing to do with the 4.6 M62TU for the X5.

You are incorrect. The 4.6 motor in the e53 is of Alpina design. Bmw copied it. Ditched it for their own 4.8 to save money and further differentiate the x5 models. I'd venture to say you have homework to do.