E39 6cyl oil pan gasket replacement illustrated

[auaq]

One thing that's worth mentioning that will cut down some of time/pain:

1st drop suspension and then unbolt 10mm pan bolts.

Originally I did it reverse and spend lots of time with reaching some of the bolts while suspension was still in place. I guess I was too intimidated dropping suspension and holding engine by the bar, so I left it for last. Be confident and drop it 1st


Oleg.

I agree with you. Drop the subframe and/or suspension components as it will much easier to reach to the pan bolts especially on the driver's side.

I'm about to do this job on an M52TU 528 and have a couple of questions.
1/. How far do you need to lower the subframe to provide enough clearance to remove the oil pan as it has to clear the pump and pickup etc?
2/. It doesn't appear that it is necessary to disconnect the steering rack from the steering column even though the TIS says to do this.
Perelet warns about not allowing the sliding part of the column to disconnect. So how much movement of the column sliding joint can take place before it separates?
I will have the car on a hoist so access underneath is not a problem as I'm past crawling under and lying on my back with oil and dirt falling on my face etc. Any other advice appreciated.

Regards
RonR
Melbourne
Australia

1.) If I remember correctly that Alldata said a good 6 inches, however, I found that to be still short. I dropped it further enough to drop it and then be able to slide it out towards the transmission. As long as it can be out of the oil pump housing way, you are good to go.
2.) There will be tremendous amount of weight/tension being hung on that column if you do not separate them. That I do not think is a good idea. Plus, how will you drop the subframe with the rack being fastened to it?

[LuisGT]

Wish this thread existed a month ago...

I dropped my subframe as low as possible without removing any suspension components...

[auaq]

Wish this thread existed a month ago...

I dropped my subframe as low as possible without removing any suspension components...

Nice

The picture may delude me; however, it seems like you actually lifted the engine as high as possible, right? You have also separated the compressor from the block and the steering pump as well. Makes me wonder about your transmission mounts being under stress!

[LuisGT]

Nice

The picture may delude me; however, it seems like you actually lifted the engine as high as possible, right? You have also separated the compressor from the block and the steering pump as well. Makes me wonder about your transmission mounts being under stress!

Yep... I raised the engine... I also loosened the transmission mounts and removed the exhaust in order to avoid any binding... Sounded like a v-twin without the exhaust pipe... lol

http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t=9968adf9.mp4

[auaq]

Yep... I raised the engine... I also loosened the transmission mounts and removed the exhaust in order to avoid any binding... Sounded like a v-twin without the exhaust pipe... lol

http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t=9968adf9.mp4

Very good sire!

[Jason5driver]

Yep... I raised the engine... I also loosened the transmission mounts and removed the exhaust in order to avoid any binding... Sounded like a v-twin without the exhaust pipe... lol

http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t=9968adf9.mp4

What did you use to raise the engine?

[LuisGT]

What did you use to raise the engine?

An Engine hoist...

[Jason5driver]

I found this pretty helpful post:
Thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=114577

I have a 01 530i. I noticed a lot of oil on the driver side wall of the engine and for months I could not figure out where it was comming from. I changed every hose that was wet or locked wet. I finally traced the problem to the oil filter housing. I replaced the $12.00 oil filter housing gasket and problem solved.

I recently changed the oil pan gasket because of leaks.

1. Raise the car and place on stands. REMEMBER SAFETY FIRST!
2. You would need a floor jack so, stop being cheap and buy a good one. I paid $90.00 for mine.
3. Remove the engine mount nuts.
4. unlatch the fan shroud from top and bottom. No need to remove it. It has to move up when you raise the engine.
5. Drain oil.
6. Be very careful and place a piece of wood on top of the jack and place top of jack right where the tranny meets the engine ON THE TRANNY. You will have to remove the exhaust bracket attached to the tranny.
7. Gently raise the jack to raise the engine and watch the engine to make sure nothing is being stretch ( hoses or wires).
8. Raise the engine as high as possible. Don't worry if it slips off the engine mounts, it will slide back when you lower the jack or you can easily guide it back in. Do not use fingers.
9. After you raise the engine. start to remove all the nuts holding the oil pan to the engine. There are also two bolts on the transmission you'll have to remove. Towards the rear of the pan you will have different size bolts (note where you remove them from).
10. The transmission require special hex socket. PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU USE THE RIGHT TOOLS. WRONG TOOLS CAN CAUSE A BOLT TO STRIP OR A DAMAGED HEAD AND THEN YOU WILL INCREASE YOUR PROBLEMS.
11. After you remove all nuts, gently pry the oil pan from the engine. Don't force it, if it seems stuck, check to make sure you have removed ALL nuts.
12. Lower the pan as far as it will go. You will not be able to completey remove it.
13. Remove the old gasket by either cutting it or sliding it under the suction pipe leading into the pan.
14. Clean all areas where the gasket will seat with a rag or scraper if needed. Avoid pieces from entering the pan.
15. Now for the delicate part. YOU WILL HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL AND SLIDE THE NEW GASKET UNDER THE SUCTION PIPE LEADING INTO THE PAN. I DID THIS FROM THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE ENGINE. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO REPLACE THE GASKET WITHOUT REMOVING THE FRAME UNDER THE PAN OR PAYING TUFFY $500.00 OR THE STEALER $900.00 TO DO IT.
16. SO THE MAIN THING TO DO IS SLIDING THE NEW GASKET UNDER THE SUCTION PIPE (NOT REAL NAME) IN THE OIL PAN WITHOUT BREAKING OR DAMAGING IT.

17. Replace nuts and torgue. Leave engine gravel cover for one week while you cheCk for daily leaks

18. DON'T FORGET TO ADD NEW OIL.

PRETEND YOU PLACE ONE OF YOUR FEET INTO A BUCKET AND YOU HAVE TO PLACE THE COVER ON THE BUCKET BY SLIDING THE COVER (GASKET)OVER UNDER YOUR FOOT (SUCTION PIPE LEADING INTO THE OIL PAN) IN ORDER TO PLACE IT ON THE BUCKET (OIL PAN) BUT YOU CANNOT TAKE YOUR FEET OUT OF THE BUCKET.

IT TOOK ME ABOUT 3 HOURS TO DO THIS JOB.

ALWAYS FOLLOW SAFETY.
USE THE RIGHT TOOLS AND WORK CLEAN AND ORGANIZE.



Hope this helps

It looks like he did the job without using any hoist, or engine support.
He just jacked up the engine near the transmission...

[auaq]

An Engine hoist...

Hmmm .... so your bike has got an M50 engine, eh?

[LuisGT]

Hey... once you go BMW... you can't go back!

I found this pretty helpful post:
Thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=114577



It looks like he did the job without using any hoist, or engine support.
He just jacked up the engine near the transmission...

I don't know how he did it... but even with the engine lifted as high as possible... almost hitting the firewall... I had to lower the subframe in order to clear the oil pump intake...

[Aussie528iT]

auaq,
Thanks for that info.
How far the subframe needs to be lowered determines how far to raise the car on the jack stands even though its on a hoist. (4 post ramp type) I will raise the car to give a good 8-9 inches drop for the subframe.
I thought it might be easier to not disconnect the steering column and use the sliding column part to avoid doing this. I didn't think it was a good idea but worth considering but for now the TIS rules.
I've also never considered going down the "cut the gasket" approach as it isn't necessary when you can raise the car high enough. Its really a last resort approach when all else fails.

Thanks
RonR

[auaq]

auaq,
Thanks for that info.
How far the subframe needs to be lowered determines how far to raise the car on the jack stands even though its on a hoist. (4 post ramp type) I will raise the car to give a good 8-9 inches drop for the subframe.
I thought it might be easier to not disconnect the steering column and use the sliding column part to avoid doing this. I didn't think it was a good idea but worth considering but for now the TIS rules.
I've also never considered going down the "cut the gasket" approach as it isn't necessary when you can raise the car high enough. Its really a last resort approach when all else fails.

Thanks
RonR

Thanks mate!

[adjmcloon]

That oil pickup tube is a real bitch.

[Jason5driver]

That oil pickup tube is a real bitch.

Ok.....
Care to explain...?
Any pictures....?

Thanks!
Jason

[jetblackE39]

Oleg,

The idea of cutting gasket + add RTV sealant came from my 1998 Volvo S/V70 oil pan. Volvo does not use the rubber gasket as BMW does.
In the 850, S/V70 series, Volvo used "liquid gasket" for the oil pan.
Yes, Volvo uses the "liquid gasket" for the entire oil pan edge!
The Volvo "liquid gasket" is basically similar to RTV.

Remember that for BMW E39 "gasket-cutting" trick, the RTV is used ONLY where the cuts are made, so the RTV patch covers only a small area such as 1/2" or less. Search bimmerfest forum for "mudbone" etc. Many have done it this way and have had no leak for 2-3 years.

I am not arguing with you, of course your way (dropping subframe) is the kosher (the correct) way, but it requires not only time (some 9-10h) but also:
- special tool (engine hoist or engine support as you used)
- alignment
etc.

The "gasket-cutting" technique is basically an improvised method that allows one to perform this job in 1-2h.

Life is choices, if one does like Option A then select Option B.

---------
FYI, below is the gasket-cutting thread, many have done it successfully.
Again, it is a matter of choice. Option A (the BMW way) does not mean it is better than Option B (cutting gasket).
Once you guys fix different car makes (such as BMW, Volvo, Honda, Toyota etc.) and learn how different mfg's design/fix their cars, then your view will change.
There is more than one way to do things.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=532166

Well,

You may as well go and ask the people who have done it this way, nobody has had a leak that I know of.
(I sent these people PMs and all of them are happy with this trick).

+1
there is nothing wrong with taking short cuts when done right, and if you can find a way to cut hours off a DIY job, and still have the same outcome then by all means do it. Of course short cuts dont apply to everything, theres plenty of ways to get a job done easier and quicker. But if it's a dealer or Indy doing repairs the right ways is expected.

[Cyrix2k]

A few things:

1) I wouldn't shortcut this job the way CNN does it. To be sure the new gasket doesn't leak, you should completely remove the pan & use a razer blade to clean the gasket interface on both the engine & pan. With the pan close to the engine, you will wind up with debris in the pan at best.
2) Fully dropping the pan allows for a thorough cleaning & inspection of the pan & engine. While the pan is down, I check each rod bearing for play although you'd probably hear it...
3) Doing this in the car is probably a nightmare. Some of those 10mm bolts have tight access and it's also a pain lining the gasket up so the bolts thread in. I'd allow a good chunk of time just to get the pan back on. It probably takes a half our OUTSIDE the car.
4) I use a victor reinz gasket which seems fine to me.

[Maineiac 1]

Great thread for those of us with e39's old enough to have this problem. At recent oil change, I got called into the shop to witness oil beginning to seep around the oil pan gasket. Was told the shop will monitor this for dripping at next oil change, and that if I hold onto car for any length of time this is likely to have to be replaced. it's currently at 176,000 miles.

My question is: while having this done, is there anything else that should get replaced with the subframe off the bottom of the vehicle? Motor mounts? I don't want to be faced with having this done, only to find out six months later that some other major work needs doing that requires taking down the subframe again?

[Jason5driver]

Great thread for those of us with e39's old enough to have this problem. At recent oil change, I got called into the shop to witness oil beginning to seep around the oil pan gasket. Was told the shop will monitor this for dripping at next oil change, and that if I hold onto car for any length of time this is likely to have to be replaced. it's currently at 176,000 miles.

My question is: while having this done, is there anything else that should get replaced with the subframe off the bottom of the vehicle? Motor mounts? I don't want to be faced with having this done, only to find out six months later that some other major work needs doing that requires taking down the subframe again?

If the motor mounts are original, I would replace them while replacing the oil pan gasket.

[E39Only]

Did you have to remove the brake calipers for this?

[Guam135i]

This is a huge pain in the ass, and if you can manage it I would definitely take it to a good indy and let somebody else do it!

I agree how much would it cost for a shop to do this?

[LuisGT]

Did you have to remove the brake calipers for this?

Nope, I didn't even remove the wheels when did it.

[E39Only]

Perelet, how did you manage to lower the subframe? What exactly did you do? I've tried to shake and pull down hard but it won't budge at all. The four long screws holding the subframe are out and I've loosened top and unfastened bottom of left and right engine mounts. The engine is lifted nearly 2 inches using the harborfrieght tool. Powersteering pump is out and so is the oil deepstick tube.

Should the steering rack be unfastened from the subframe?

I've given up for the day and going to bed now. I might just have to bloody cut the gasket and get it over with. I've already spent tooo many hours on this.

[Brent]

Awesome DIY thanks! I will be using this, and i was wondering if it might be possible to kill teo birds eith one stone... If I needed to do the steering rack too do you think I could snake it out after lowering the subframe? I ask before the instructions for the steering rack all say I need to lift the engine 1.5" or 4cm to get clearance to remove the rack

[dumblucky]

Tagged

[perelet]

Perelet, how did you manage to lower the subframe? What exactly did you do? ...

The four long screws holding the subframe are out and I've loosened top and unfastened bottom of left and right engine mounts. ...

I've already spent tooo many hours on this.

E39Only, I do not read this board often, so PM will reach me faster. Somehow you missed 2 bolts on subframe, if you read carefully I said 6 bolts, you loosened only 4 - that will make removal hard

....
Disconnect sway bar. Remove fan/belt, remove PS pulley, brake calipers, unbolt power steering fluid reservuar and let it hang. Put jack under subframe, remove 6 subframe bolts. Lower jack, shake subframe:
....

Here's pic of subframe and bolt locations:



Also, you are lifting engine way too high - see on 1st page:

...
>4. Did you need to lift the engine up any?
~1/4 in. Just to free up engine mounts.
...

Enjoy.
Oleg.