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Thread: E36 Track Cars with solid mounts - opinions/experiences

  1. #1
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    E36 Track Cars with solid mounts - opinions/experiences

    has anybody noticed any fatigue failures of any components (front subframe/front engine mounts/aluminum trans mount/rear subframe)? Currently upgrading to solid everything - engine/trans/diff (rear subframe is already solid). Wondering if I should re-inforce anything further - car already has the "typical" E36 reinforcements for the suspension & is fully caged.

  2. #2
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    I'd like to know about this as well. I have an E36 M3 that is track only and I haven't touched the bushings yet but was considering the AKG solid aluminum pieces...

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by weedshoes View Post
    Thanks but I'm more concerned about knowing areas that fail when road racing (besides rear sway bar mount, rear trailing arm front mount, rear upper shock mount, rear subframe chassis areas as these are all reinforced already).

    I'm concerned with rear subframe in front diff mount area, front subframe, front engine mounts, aluminum trans mount, ect.

  5. #5
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    I just had the Bimmerworld solid motor and tranny mounts put into my car not too long ago. It was highly recomended that I have the front sub frame reinforcments welded in.

    1988 E30 M3-Garage Queen
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  6. #6
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    http://www.akgmotorsport.com/catalog...0Reinforcement

    Akg has been racing e36's for years, and these are the parts that they feel need attention. If more stuff was breaking, chances are they would be trying to profit off of those weak spots as well.

    As far as the differential goes a lot of people like the differential support bracket from active autowerke.

  7. #7
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    i have had solid mounts thru out the car, '97 328is, for several years now and haven't torn anything out. several years ago i broke the rear sway bar mount on VIR-S but have had no problems since.

    the car doesn't see much track time these days but i've easily done 8 - 10 DEs with the solid mounts installed. gutted with full cage BTW.

    noisy as hell, i will tell you that much
    "Sell the damn thing quickly, Leedham, before somebody mistakes you for a commoner."

  8. #8
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    I've got solid engine/trans/diff mounts (urethane subframe and rtab, delrin cab's) and it feels great. I religiously check all mounts and bolts between races and I have front subframe, rear subframe, rear sway, front strut and rsm reinforcements. I still need to install the rtab reinforcements.
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  9. #9
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    Running solid everywhere no problem minus my mirrors being blurry from vibrations haha
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  10. #10
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    You don't have to run solid anywhere to get the same affect. Just use delrin or 75D poly as it won't flex just like solid but prevent cracking over a period of time.

  11. #11
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    Solid everywhere, similar to 94is. I love how loud my car got inside cabin after that change
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  12. #12
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    You could loose power with solid engine mounts

    One problem that can crop up with solid motor mounts that is hard to detect is the effect they can have on knock sensors. I happened to have an autronic ECU harnessed into the stock Knock sensors in an e36 with a very high output s52. When I installed solid engine mounts the motor didn't run as well. By looking at the data log I was able to determine that the ECU was getting false signals from the sensors due to induced harmonics caused by the additional vibrations as a result of the solid mounts. I replaced the solid mounts with race urethane motor mounts and the problem went away.
    I asked Turner about this and even though they sell them they said they didn't use solid motor and transmission mounts in their race cars for the same reason. I also believe they mentioned that solid transmission mounts caused some other issues.
    I don't think there is any clear advantage to solid motor and transmission mounts other than durability. For high output motors you need to constantly inspect urethane mounts for cracks or tears and replace as needed, But I believe it's true that unlike suspension some compliance in these areas is a good thing.
    My 2 cents worth
    Last edited by CMM3; 05-03-2012 at 05:05 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMM3 View Post
    One problem that can crop up with solid motor mounts that is hard to detect is the effect they can have on knock sensors. I happened to have an autronic ECU harnessed into the stock Knock sensors in an e36 with a very high output s52. When I installed solid engine mounts the motor didn't run as well. By looking at the data log I was able to determine that the ECU was getting false signals from the sensors due to induced harmonics caused by the additional vibrations as a result of the solid mounts. I replaced the solid mounts with race urethane motor mounts and the problem went away.
    I asked Turner about this and even though they sell them they said they didn't use solid motor and transmission mounts in their race cars for the same reason. I also believe they mentioned that solid transmission mounts caused some other issues.
    Haha, I've been saying the same thing on our local BMW forum for awhile, and everyone thinks I'm nuts. Good to know they don't either.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMM3 View Post
    One problem that can crop up with solid motor mounts that is hard to detect is the effect they can have on knock sensors. I happened to have an autronic ECU harnessed into the stock Knock sensors in an e36 with a very high output s52. When I installed solid engine mounts the motor didn't run as well. By looking at the data log I was able to determine that the ECU was getting false signals from the sensors due to induced harmonics caused by the additional vibrations as a result of the solid mounts. I replaced the solid mounts with race urethane motor mounts and the problem went away.
    I asked Turner about this and even though they sell them they said they didn't use solid motor and transmission mounts in their race cars for the same reason. I also believe they mentioned that solid transmission mounts caused some other issues.
    I don't think there is any clear advantage to solid motor and transmission mounts other than durability. For high output motors you need to constantly inspect urethane mounts for cracks or tears and replace as needed, But I believe it's true that unlike suspension some compliance in these areas is a good thing.
    My 2 cents worth
    I run all solid mounts /spherical bearings in my 600hp turbo track car with no such issues. Perhaps your knock sensors were not calibrated to work properly with the Autronic?

    -Mike
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  15. #15
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    Knock sensors calibration wasn't the issue

    The Autronic / knock sensors calibration & interface was fine. Pretty straight forward interface. The motor spent a good deal of time on the dyno and all was well. The loss of power was directly due to the vibration induced by the solid motor mounts, with the timing/fuel maps incorrectly compensating for pre-ignition that wasn't there. The before and after results and data was conclusive.
    Every motor has different balance and harmonics unique to it. Even in production line motors but more so in modified motors. Doesn't mean it's going to happen in every case. But it definately can and does happen as demonstrated in mine and also verified by TMS.
    IMO there is no other value in running them other than reliability, and the disadvantges are the noise, vibrations and unnecessary stress that they put on other areas.

  16. #16
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    If you know your A/F maps are good - you don't need knock sensors. If you are not running a standalone - run an A/F meter and just zip tie the sensors to the harness. Problem solved. (well, unless you run shit fuel - then boom!)
    Last edited by sped here; 05-04-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Bringing up a couple month old thread here, but have a couple questions to ask. I found this by (wouldn't you know it...) searching!

    Are there any downsides to aluminum trans mounts (besides NVH)? As in, are there any long-term effects with solid trans mounts ONLY? I ask because I need to drop my trans this week to fix something, and have some Turner solid trans mounts laying around. The ones in the car now are old 160k worn out oem ones, and I was just going to throw them back in for the time being. I realized I had these solid ones laying around for an old E36 track project I had, and were never even opened. The car they're going is isn't a track car, but not a street car either. Basically, if the only downside is NVH, and no long-term ill-effects, I will throw them in when the trans goes back up. Thanks for any input.

    Quote Originally Posted by 94is View Post
    I've got solid engine/trans/diff mounts (urethane subframe and rtab, delrin cab's) and it feels great. I religiously check all mounts and bolts between races and I have front subframe, rear subframe, rear sway, front strut and rsm reinforcements. I still need to install the rtab reinforcements.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't M3s have rear subframe and front strut reinforcements from the factory? The way I understood it was, only non-M E36's needed these reinforcements. I have the RSM and RTAB reinforcements done already, and don't plan on changing out the sways or motor mounts for a while. Thanks.

  18. #18
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    Depends on what you are running for motor mounts. You need to make sure your motor and trans bushings has matching stiffness. If not you could cause damage to other parts due to the extra stress they are put under.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZimDoc View Post
    Depends on what you are running for motor mounts. You need to make sure your motor and trans bushings has matching stiffness. If not you could cause damage to other parts due to the extra stress they are put under.
    Motor mounts are OEM M3 mounts, but in good shape. The trans mounts however are torn and gross. So you are saying that having a trans that doesn't move will cause stress on other components? I would think that having no movement would cause less stress since the weight of the transmission isn't shifting from side to side on every turn, but what do I know, that's why I asked this.

  20. #20
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    Use inexpensive E46 M3 trans mounts - harder and firmer than any other trans mounts, more durable than urethane (junk IMHO, replaced too many failed urethane mounts). Do not run solid trans mounts without solid engine mounts. They will crack/break the trans mount brace or the ears off the trans case.
    James Muskopf
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  21. #21
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    Only issues Ive ever had was snapping the engine mount studs. Twice. Went back to rubber after that. Maybe too much cheater power...
    Eric WONGer
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  22. #22
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    I felt no need to suffer that much. I'm happy with OEM E46 trans mounts and either Group-N or Rogue poly engine mounts. I also use a B&M shifter. It all works great and the car is very pleasant to drive. I certainly don't feel I am leaving anything on the table. I never understood the attraction of solid.
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