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Thread: E39 Cold Air intake

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by modkiller

    Hey i got a factory 3.83 for sale if you want it.
    Cool...I've got a Tornado Fuel Saver for you buddy. Good for a 50hp gain...

    Try removing the baffle and you'll get about the same results with less hassle and fewer dollars.

    Sent from my Transformer TF101 using BF.com

    '00 540iA Sport w/235k+ Original TCG's, Vanos and transmission.​*Trans failure at 244k+...FS Now

  2. #52
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    No sir, i am no fool for such foreign sources of wizardry and witchcraft. I am offended you would offer such an ill described device for my monetary consumption. 50hp? What is hp but an imaginary concept? If you used words like "cyclonic action" or " molecular contaminate disruption" i would be onboard. But as you know, you did not such fancy words therefore i dont trust you or your intentions. So i thank you for the opportunity to particpate but rudely decline.

    Btw i heard if you install the "vornado" intake upside down, which i assume is similiar to what you have, it will make the water in your toilet spin backwards like the funny folks in australia have for free.


    Note to self: file this entire thread under "useless information" tab.

  3. #53
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    EDIT: Info previously posted has no place in this thread.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 04-12-2012 at 04:48 PM.

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  4. #54
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    So according to data testing was done at 0mph?

  5. #55
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    obviously there is a trend for knock with higher IAT but im not 100% buying your theory. ill be honest i havent logged my 540i but i've done TONS of logging and minor tuning on mitsu evo. those things run low 20psi boost from factory and can easily be pushed higher with few bolt on mods; imagine what kind of IAT i can hit despite the huge factory front mount intercooler. definetly IAT affects knock but theres other factors that affect knock much more directly, like octane and air fuel ratio.

    my point is your IAT isnt horrible, yet factory is pulling timing? is bad fuel quality possible? do you have bad vacuum leak, throwing off the factory tune? most importantly, what is your knock count. factory ecu doesnt simply pull timing, it pulls timing in response to knock.
    Last edited by mifesto; 04-11-2012 at 11:07 PM.
    2001 540i 6speed metallic silver

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by modkiller View Post
    So according to data testing was done at 0mph?
    As much as I would like to explain to you what is going on, it clear it will only fall on deaf ears.

    As I mentioned above, the Excel files showing data at idle, low speed and highway speed are available to Aspen. They would be too much for your pea brain to comprehend.

    Quote Originally Posted by mifesto View Post
    obviously there is a trend for knock with higher IAT but im not 100% buying your theory. ill be honest i havent logged my 540i but i've done TONS of logging and minor tuning on mitsu evo. those things run low 20psi boost from factory and can easily be pushed higher with few bolt on mods; imagine what kind of IAT i can hit despite the huge factory front mount intercooler. definetly IAT affects knock but theres other factors that affect knock much more directly, like octane and air fuel ratio.

    my point is your IAT isnt horrible, yet factory is pulling timing? is bad fuel quality possible? do you have bad vacuum leak, throwing off the factory tune? most importantly, what is your knock count. factory ecu doesnt simply pull timing, it pulls timing in response to knock.
    You don't have to buy anything I'm saying. When I make a claim I support it with objective data.
    This is a stock factory tune.

    There is no knock retard seen anywhere, fuel is fine, no vacuum leaks. Mind you the engine runs fine. If I hadn't logged the temps I would not have noticed anything. This is a quest for doing mods that make sense.

    If you believe seeing upwards of 60F over ambient is normal then you and I have different understanding of an intake and how it should work on a N/A engine.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 04-11-2012 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
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  7. #57
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    Then supply the data for when the car is actually moving. Your data is at 0 mph that proves nothing. Of course there is heat soak. And you didnt even give stock data to compare it to.
    Thats like me claiming the cai makes hundred 100hp but only providing the stock base dyno as proof. But of course you do have alot of insults being thrown around ......

  8. #58
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    now there is 2 of them running loose on the e39 forum...(mod and topaz)
    ---


    anyways... I want to believe an intake will help with airflow, but I also want to believe that most of these intakes I see such as AFE is actually not pulling in cold air.

    how do we get the best of both? something that receives it's air from the stock location behind the middle of the bumper so that it is cold and wont suck in water like a dinan intake which is pulling air from the wheel well area.

    OR, is an AFE already receiving air from that tubes underneath that remains from the stock system?... what if the heat shield also covered the top of the intake so it has no where else to receive air except from the bottom cold air tubes.

    ----


    also, Dry vs oiled filter... which ?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz540i View Post
    There are two camps here- those that hate them but dont actually have one so who knows what this hatred is actually based upon,
    And the rest of us that do have them and will say otherwise.

    Its pretty clear that the only people who should be listened to here are the ones that actually use them so that you can get an actual educated response. For those of us that have them its pretty unanimous that we like them and what they do for the engine.
    There is nothing you can say to that. You either have one or you dont.
    I actually had one installed recently for period of 2 months on the daily 99 528 and actually did not like it (hate is such a strong word ). Stock design just feels superior and is much more comfortable to drive while using the car every day.

    I am talking M52 not M62 which is totally different game and has significant gains from CAI. BMW DME has ability to learn to use it "properly" so you do not loose significant power like in a Subaru. Does not mean it makes sense just to install CAI in this specific case.


  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    You don't have to buy anything I'm saying. When I make a claim I support it with objective data.
    This is a stock factory tune.

    There is no knock retard seen anywhere, fuel is fine, no vacuum leaks. Mind you the engine runs fine. If I hadn't logged the temps I would not have noticed anything. This is a quest for doing mods that make sense.

    If you believe seeing upwards of 60F over ambient is normal then you and I have different understanding of an intake and how it should work on a N/A engine.
    first i want to add im not trying to put you down, this is a debate and only so. i want to come out straight, assuming you are correct in seeing zero knock, then you are 110% wrong your ecu is pulling timing because of excessive IAT. also as you said, at 0 mph, your motor is in openloop which basically means its constantly making adjustments based on maf and o2 feedback(which means you cant look at that graph and quote it straight out). closed loop operations only occurs at high load(or often during cold start operations depending on the make/model).

    so summarizing my point....

    1. you are at 0mph, so you CANT look at that graph and say your IAT is causing ecu to pull timing. thats a naive assumption(no offense).
    2. you are at very low load just idling along. you will never hit high load even if you rev the crap out of it.
    3. and finally you see zero knock during your logging, so its safe to assume your ecu sees IAT isnt nearly hot enough to cause preignition.

    so im not even touching the debate of factory intake vs aftermarket. im simply saying besides your recorded IAT data itself, any correlations and assumptions you made is very flawed.
    Last edited by mifesto; 04-12-2012 at 09:26 AM.
    2001 540i 6speed metallic silver

  11. #61
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    I just wasted 10 min of my life lol

    Which btw.. I know a CAI doesn't significantly do anything big as far as performance, I'm still getting one. :P

    1. Just for looks
    2. Just for growl
    3. Just cuz I got a 5speed lol
    Last edited by Mac Castle; 04-12-2012 at 10:04 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  12. #62
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    Why does this topic always end up so heated? Lol
    For my next feat i will start a thread debating whether or not bolts are reusable...o shazzam i see mod beat me to that too it. Rofl

    Hmm maybe a thread about preventitive maintenance vs wait 'til breaks repairs?
    ~2001 540i/6speed~
    Schmiedman M5 headers, SPEC stage2+ kevlar clutch, JBR 11lb lightweight flywheel, ESS Tuning m60 manifold software tune, 3" SS freeflow OBX catback, afe cold air intake, m60 intake manifold, Cdv delete, powerflex urethane sway bar bushings, M5 rear sway bar ,Autozone replacement driver side blinker light bulb, 545 short shifter zhp weighted, "dsc off" sticker, m5 3.15 lsd differential, m5 chassis rods, akebono ceramic pads, G2 caliper epoxy, ecs braided lines, BC-Racing br-plus series w/swift springs 8/6~
    On the night that I go back in time, you will be shot by terrorists. Please take whatever precautions are necessary to prevent this terrible disaster.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by modkiller View Post
    Maybe schitzo needs to start remembering. Im pretty there arent too many race cars out there running factory e39 intakes rofl. Then again i dont watch nascar so i have no idea What im talking About.
    My e39 with 400+ Hp at the wheels isn't being held back at all by the stock 540 CAI.

    I pulled off the factory hose in place of a wide open Power-Aid conical filter strapped right to the throttle body and didn't notice any difference in power or rev-ability from a cold start. I'll take a leap and say it would actually perform worse with the conical filter after heat starts building up in the engine compartment.

    An oiled AFE drop-in did produce a small amount of lower RPM throttle response over the old (unknown mileage) stock paper filter, but I attribute that more to a clean filter than the actual design.

    If I ever make a chassis dyno run, I'll do one with the stock airbox and one with just a conical filter and we can all put this to rest
    Last edited by James39; 04-12-2012 at 10:48 AM.
    '99 BMW 540i6 L33 5.3, PRC Heads, E-force supercharged
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1674320

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mifesto View Post
    first i want to add im not trying to put you down, this is a debate and only so. i want to come out straight, assuming you are correct in seeing zero knock, then you are 110% wrong your ecu is pulling timing because of excessive IAT. also as you said, at 0 mph, your motor is in openloop which basically means its constantly making adjustments based on maf and o2 feedback(which means you cant look at that graph and quote it straight out). closed loop operations only occurs at high load(or often during cold start operations depending on the make/model).

    so summarizing my point....

    1. you are at 0mph, so you CANT look at that graph and say your IAT is causing ecu to pull timing. thats a naive assumption(no offense).
    2. you are at very low load just idling along. you will never hit high load even if you rev the crap out of it.
    3. and finally you see zero knock during your logging, so its safe to assume your ecu sees IAT isnt nearly hot enough to cause preignition.

    so im not even touching the debate of factory intake vs aftermarket. im simply saying besides your recorded IAT data itself, any correlations and assumptions you made is very flawed.
    We will have to agree to disagree.
    I will say though based on my logs, I will be going back to the stock setup.
    Last edited by Schitzo; 04-12-2012 at 02:08 PM.

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Castle View Post
    I just wasted 10 min of my life lol

    Which btw.. I know a CAI doesn't significantly do anything big as far as performance, I'm still getting one. :P

    1. Just for looks
    2. Just for growl
    3. Just cuz I got a 5speed lol
    Just cuz I got a 5 speed hurr, KAY AN ENNN.



    Ugh.


    Instead of wasting your money on something that will hurt more than help, buy NPG coolant so you can shut your trap in the other thread you ruined.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradaiel View Post
    I'm sorry, the m5 and the 528/530 don't feel the same driving them. The m5 is leaps and bounds better. My loud pedal actually does something in the m5, steering is tighter, suspension is tighter and just feels better. The ONLY thing my 525/528/530 does better than my m5 is use less fuel. The whole rack and pinion thing is stupid, they feel the same.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjoe87865 View Post
    now there is 2 of them running loose on the e39 forum...(mod and topaz)
    ---


    anyways... I want to believe an intake will help with airflow, but I also want to believe that most of these intakes I see such as AFE is actually not pulling in cold air.

    how do we get the best of both? something that receives it's air from the stock location behind the middle of the bumper so that it is cold and wont suck in water like a dinan intake which is pulling air from the wheel well area.

    OR, is an AFE already receiving air from that tubes underneath that remains from the stock system?... what if the heat shield also covered the top of the intake so it has no where else to receive air except from the bottom cold air tubes.

    ----


    also, Dry vs oiled filter... which ?
    +1

    Yes, there is a happy medium and it's called a stock cai.

    Yes...stock airbox.

    From my understanding, a foam filter has less flow resistance but you have to keep it oiled or it isn't efficient at removing dirty air. From my research, if you want an aggressive engine growl, remove the baffle...
    Last edited by ViolinARC; 04-12-2012 at 02:33 PM.

    '00 540iA Sport w/235k+ Original TCG's, Vanos and transmission.​*Trans failure at 244k+...FS Now

  17. #67
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    Here is a classic example of spending upwards of $600 on an AFE intake that loses power over stock.

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...no-review.html

    2003 M5 LSx l 6 Spd Manual l 4.10 LSD
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    Here is a classic example of spending upwards of $600 on an AFE intake that loses power over stock.

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...no-review.html
    But he'z got a 5 speed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradaiel View Post
    I'm sorry, the m5 and the 528/530 don't feel the same driving them. The m5 is leaps and bounds better. My loud pedal actually does something in the m5, steering is tighter, suspension is tighter and just feels better. The ONLY thing my 525/528/530 does better than my m5 is use less fuel. The whole rack and pinion thing is stupid, they feel the same.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by webdesigner View Post
    Just cuz I got a 5 speed hurr, KAY AN ENNN.



    Ugh.


    Instead of wasting your money on something that will hurt more than help, buy NPG coolant so you can shut your trap in the other thread you ruined.
    Explain how this will hurt your car. Also, what SHOULD we be spending our money on?

    So far, there is only proof that a CAI is hated on by data nerds. Nobody has actually given a legit option other than getting a CAI. "Save your money" isn't an opinion you should give. You aren't my CPA.

    I also think there are more reasons than just a slight HP or TQ increase. I got it because its reusable, less restrictive, and yea, it sounds pretty badass (not the main reason).

    I dont agree with the fact that it hurts your car. Prove that first. I trust a company that spends time designing and testing a product for my car. At least they have proven data that takes months and/or years to gather. I'm not going to get something off of Ebay that was just slapped together with cheap parts. I understand R&D + materials cost money, and that is what the cost of most parts comes from.

    As for heat, I don't have a problem since I have a heat shield that works rather well, and incorporates the stock cool air plumbing. My intake is also high up, so hydrolocking is not a concern of mine. Plus I don't drive through rivers or live in the ocean, so Im good.

    To sum it up, I have seen no proof that its hurting my car, or the people around me. My car feels better than stock, and how I feel when I drive is very important to me. I think that this thread should be treated as "What is your personal experience with a CAI?". There is a debate from purists on every single mod you do to your car saying it will only hurt your car. Let the people mod their cars. Its all personal taste. Just take a look at any suspension mod thread. Always at least a few haters saying "Stock suspension is the best and cant be beat, EVER". And relax guys, a CAI will not blow up your car, or damage your engine - unless you have some serious maintenance issues that affect that specific region. Technology improves every day, and any design can be improved upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
    Here is a classic example of spending upwards of $600 on an AFE intake that loses power over stock.

    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...no-review.html
    Yea, thats gonna happen when Testing a product. This OBVIOUSLY doesnt happen with all products.

    Get new eyes.

    Last edited by Giancarlo976; 04-12-2012 at 03:41 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giancarlo976 View Post
    Explain how this will hurt your car.
    I doubt any valid explanation of how cone air filters can allow silicon particles to pass and settle in your oil or the possibility of hydro-locking you engine will sound as cool as the vroom vroom sound you get from a CAI.

    Please, if you do not have one installed, install one. Enjoy it. Tell your friends. Do plenty of full throttle runs up and down the street so you can let the world know, you're a CAI baller.

    Because frankly Scarlett.....

  21. #71
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    Maybe we should have Dinan make a filter for all the "Holier Than Thou" comments on here, too.

  22. #72
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    I have a "CAI", not because I wanted it but because my supercharger kit came with one to replace the stock, real CAI.

    My take?: While I can't speak with numbers for obvious reasons (no SC before), below 2k rpms where the SC is not spinning fast enough to make any noticeable power, I can tell that the car tends to bog down where it was fine before. I can extrapolate that and conclude that if I had the stock engine with an aftermarket CAI, I'd get unacceptable loss of response at low revs and I'd have removed it. So, for stock or lightly modded E39s, do your car and yourself a favor and keep the stock intake muffler.
    Last edited by crdiscoverer; 04-12-2012 at 04:19 PM.
    Resident Third World Country Advisor

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giancarlo976 View Post
    Maybe we should have Dinan make a filter for all the "Holier Than Thou" comments on here, too.
    They do. In pink no less.


  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giancarlo976 View Post
    Get new eyes.

    Yes...you seem to have selective vision as well. You only point out the Dinan intake and ignore the fact that he has a complete Dinan Package (not making a point). That spec sheet is in combination with the Dinan Intake and the reason it makes a difference. The Dinan rep stated to me that you have to do much more than just replace the air box...you just confirmed that statement. Thanks...

    '00 540iA Sport w/235k+ Original TCG's, Vanos and transmission.​*Trans failure at 244k+...FS Now

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giancarlo976 View Post
    Get new eyes.


    Read the post yourself. The post and dyno graph are from several years ago and are about an E60 M5 with an AFE. What his CURRENT signature says has no bearing on that.


    /.randy

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