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Thread: Ethanol gas vs. non- ethanol gas

  1. #1
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    Ethanol gas vs. non- ethanol gas

    From what I've read, ethanol gas has a reduction in emissions, but does that counter the reduction of fuel economy?
    From a fellow member who uses non- ethanol gas

    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister View Post
    I am on my 3rd tank of non ethanol 92 octane. I am getting a little over 2 mpg better opposed to ethanol gas.
    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister View Post
    It's .45 cents more a gallon. I get 10% better fuel mileage, so if you do the math, it equals out in town. Haven't done any long trips with it yet. But, it is seems to run and start better since I have been using it. We have a station just 2 miles from where I live. I see guys with Corvettes, G8s, etc., traveling out of town just to fill up on it when I am there.
    Some food for thought. The second page has more interesting information.
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e...anol-facts.htm
    - Sean
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  2. #2
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    I thought that all pump fuels now have at least a little ethanol in them. You have access to pump gas with zero ethanol?

  3. #3
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    Absolutely, zero ethanol, evidently hard to have these days. Car performs way different now. Have been running it religiously for (4) months now. Went on a 400+ mile road trip, got 25.2 mpg opposed to 22.7 mpg the last time I drove the very same route!!!
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  4. #4
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    Part of the reason for this is that Ethanol simply isnt as energy dense as gasoline. Therefore, burning exactly the same volume of each will result in less energy coming from the ethanol. Obviously, less energy doesnt get you as far, which you see as a drop in MPG.

    This is not to be confused with the fact that cars can actually create more power using ethanol rather than gasoline. That is a different concept entirely.

  5. #5
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    Cars can produce more power on ethonol because it's less likely to detonate. Ethonol free gas is still available in certain locations because ethonol is not to be used in things like lawn mowers, pressure washers, boats etc. because the shelf life of gasoline with ethonol is considerable shorter than pure gasoline.

    It tends to gum up parts quickly if it sits too long. I wish there was an ethonol free gas station near me.
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  6. #6
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    ^I lucked out, the gas station with non-ethanol fuel is 3 miles from my house. : ) If it were any farther, it just wouldnt' be worth it.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post

    It tends to gum up parts quickly if it sits too long. I wish there was an ethonol free gas station near me.
    The alcohol (ethanol) reacts with any rubber in the system. This is more present in lawn equipment and such, but is also present in many cars. Most of what makes a flex-fuel car able to use straight ethanol is the lack of rubber and plastic in the fuel system.

  8. #8
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    For those looking for ethanol free gas. www.pure-gas.org.
    I am using it in both my cars. $0.20 cheaper than chevron and 1mpg average increase in my 2011 F150.

  9. #9
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    ethenol is grain alcohol .... which strips the oil off your cylinder walls, which destorys your engine. I've dont some testing. I will put it in if I must but otherwise I will always put in non ethenol.

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    maybe you should go some sip some while doing more research on the subject ...

  11. #11
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    That wasn't very nice.
    Cars have run 300k + miles on ethanol gas. I don't think it strips any oil off of the cylinder walls. If it does, then you have to have very little oil in the engine to have an effect.
    - Sean
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    There doesn't look to be a lot of places that sell premium (91/93) octane pure gas, at least here in FL which is surprising considering the amount of highly modded cars down here. Premium all my car can run on since I have a reflash, although its all I've ever used. I guess I'd be willing to give it a try once I find the nearest general station.

    So what is the advantage of pure gas vs the advantage of e85?

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  13. #13
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    Pure gas has more combustive energy... means you get more bang for your buck, literally. E85 resists detonation more, so it works great in cars tuned for it (big boost cars normally).
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drift3r View Post
    ethenol is grain alcohol .... which strips the oil off your cylinder walls, which destorys your engine. I've dont some testing. I will put it in if I must but otherwise I will always put in non ethenol.
    100 % Bogus statement


    Why is ethanol an effective octane booster?

    The octane number written on the gas pump is Anti-Knock Index (AKI). Itís an average of two octane ratings using the same test equipment but using different operating conditions. The methods produce a Research Octane number (RON) and a Motor Octane Number (MON). Both were once considered important and thatís why AKI is an average of the two. With modern engines and fuels systems, recent studies have shown that RON is more important than MON. So in these cars, the higher the RON the better these cars perform. For an AKI rating of 91 the lower the MON the higher the RON. This difference is called sensitivity. All gasoline components have different sensitivity. Most hydrocarbon components have low sensitivity.* Ethanol has high sensitivity and so, modern performance cars benefit from gasolines with ethanol. Why does ethanol have higher sensitivity?*One reason is related*to the cooler combustion that results from ethanol combustion. Higher knock tendency is directly related to higher combustion temperature.

    Here is a comparison of two fuels with different octane with and without ethanol.
    91 Grade - no ethanol
    RON 97.2
    MON 85.6
    Ultra 94 - with ethanol
    RON 101.5
    MON 88

    Notice the difference in RON number from 91 grade without ethanol (97.2) and the RON of Ultra 94 (101.5). The difference is 4.3 numbers. That is significantly more than the 3 numbers difference between 94 and 91 AKI labelled on the pump. That is why gasoline with ethanol can be the best performance fuel for today's cars.

    So um ya

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  15. #15
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    I recently had the opportunity to fill up with 100% gasoline, mileage increased better than 2 mpg. I was able to get 20 in town driving in my supposedly thirsty M30 powered E34 535i/5.
    ALWAYS E10 in the Chicago area but go 50 miles into the farm country where they grow this ethanol crap and you can buy 100% gas, go figure.
    But hey, ethanol is green, if you disregard the logistics of making it. F'ing rediculous idea but most of us are stuck with it.

  16. #16
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    I switched to e85 in my e36 by raising the injector size 35%, the torque increase was phenominal, and the power is much better, (thats with no tune on e85)

    Around town and cruising I've been averaging 19 in my m54b30 e36

    thats with 5-6 trips to redline every day

    I used to average 22 with the E10 93 I used to pump, But I wont go back to it.

  17. #17
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    The only reason why the federal government subsidizes states that mandate ethanol usage is because farmers have really powerful lobbyists.

    The more ethanol we buy, the higher the price of corn goes, the more farmers make. People in Mexico have actually rioted over this, because the price of corn tortillas went up 60% in one year because we're burning all of their corn our engines.

    In CO, you can only get ethanol-free gas at select stations, march thru november. The only airport that carried it year-round, removed their pump last year.
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  18. #18
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    I took my Xterra up to Leadville CO for snowboarding and all they had was Corn-poo gasoline that made my Xterra w/10,000ft elevation seem like it had about 14hp. Wouldb't we burn less gas and produce less emissions if we had 100 octane? I was getting 14 mpg on the highway up there!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerddason View Post
    I took my Xterra up to Leadville CO for snowboarding and all they had was Corn-poo gasoline that made my Xterra w/10,000ft elevation seem like it had about 14hp. Wouldb't we burn less gas and produce less emissions if we had 100 octane? I was getting 14 mpg on the highway up there!
    Umm, higher octane isn't about emissions or MPG's, it's about knock threshold. And unless your Xterra has forced induction, you're not going to be making the same amount of power as you did at sea level at that kind of elevation. In the Estados Unidos, federal law states that any county above a certain elevation can offer gasoline with lower octane levels. Or at least I believe it states that. I wouldn't know that, I'm from the coast. You also have to account how much ethanol was in the gasoline, too.

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    surprized thanks

    Oh, that's Great Sir !!

  21. #21
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    I have been running 91 octane gas (non-ethanol) in my 2001 E46 just because I have not been able to find any info stating that the ethanol gas is OK for the engine. Back when the car was designed the ethanol was not a choice, so I figured better safe than sorry.

    I don't really care about the mileage, I just want what is best for may car.

    Any advice?

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