E21 vs E30

[mdwman]

Hi All,

I have gotten great info on this site for my Z3 so I thought you could offer some guidance on a different model. I have always liked the lines of the early 3 series cars and am considering selling/trading my other hobby car, a 1960 VW Beetle, to acquire another BMW. Can you give some opinions on the pros and cons of E21 vs E30 models? Also, what do the different designations (318, 320, 323, 325) represent?

Thanks in advance for the help! I'll post in the E30 section as well.

Mark

[Tom D]

\\what do the different designations (318, 320, 323, 325) represent? Mark

the 3 is for the series in the lineup of BMWs. the others being the 1, 5, 6, 7, Z, ect.

the next group ie; 23, 18 ect. is the size of the engine in liters. 23 is a 2.3 liter 6 cylinder and the 18 is a 1.8 liter 4 banger.

the next letter tells more about the car. if there is a "I", it's means fuel injected, "CSL" is coupe sport lightweight, "e" is something greek? for eta or low rpm - high torque.

if there is a "s" after that, it's has a sport package. a "x" is all wheel drive.

i'm going to catch hell for this, but in my opinion the e30 3 series is a better car than the e21.

[charbel]

you are in the e21 section. so each one of us is going to tell you get an e21. unless someone from the e30 section then .. you know where i am going with this

what ever you going to get, make sure it's clean and make sure you like the color. i love both. but i have a really really bad e21 addiction. as each one i see for sale. i have to buy. tom and the guys here are helping me with this addiction. we set up a 12 step program..

by the way, the only e30 i like is the one with plastic bumpers. or an e30 m3.. but that is out of the question as we are to the point where you have to sell your house to get one of those.

[e21newcomer]

the 3 is for the series in the lineup of BMWs. the others being the 1, 5, 6, 7, Z, ect. the next group ie; 23, 18 ect. is the size of the engine in liters. 23 is a 2.3 liter 6 cylinder and the 18 is a 1.8 liter 4 banger.

i'm going to catch hell for this, but in my opinion the e30 3 series is a better car than the e21.

well i hope you kept that flame suit Kevlar gave you when you signed up...but the e21 guys are more understanding and friendlier than most others.

anyway, the e30 was much more advanced than the e21 in terms of technology, mostly in the electronics dept., but the only thing the e30 does better than the e21 is to suit a larger range of buyers because of its numerous models and body styles: coup, sedan, convertible, baur, touring, or 4x4; the models you could get ranged from 316 to 325is to m3. (speaking of euro models of course) the e21 did just as good to suit the buyer that wanted to buy it. if you are a person who wanted a BMW that was a bit spartan by 1991 or today's standards and that made you feel, and feel connected to, the road the e21 would be perfect for you whether you wanted an economical 315 or a sporty fast 323i. so the choice lies with what kind of car person you are...

i am the type of person that would take either one or neither and go buy an earlier 2002 or porsche.

[Christo19]

the next group ie; 23, 18 ect. is the size of the engine in liters. 23 is a 2.3 liter 6 cylinder and the 18 is a 1.8 liter 4 banger.

but 80s 320i's have 1.8 so shouldn't it be a 318i?

[Tom D]

[QUOTE=charbel;19830816]we set up a 12 step program..QUOTE]

charbel, i hope your staying with it. when feeling a weak moment, repeat the mantra; Z8, e30m3, 3.0csl, m coupe.

mark, the e21 is a good car. almost as easy to work on as your VW with the road feel of a 70's sports car. as said, find the best example you can afford. that way instead of spending coin trying to get it roadworthy, you can put the money into making it more fun.

i have a e21 and have enjoyed it for a long time. it does have some short comings. one of which is power. if you can find a 323i or care to build one from a 320i, you'd be less disapointed when stepping out of the z3 into the e21. you didn't say what engine you had. i'd guess 2.5 liter.

i love driving all of my BMWs and all for different reasons. the e21 is a car i would drive quickly down a mountian pass. the e30m3 is for driving up that same mountian, very fast! the e46 330 is the car i would drive 500 miles to get to that mountian pass, at warp speed. the motorcycles. the r1000rt is like a lazy river, it just flows along, nothing upsets it and the r1150rs, well, up, down, in or out. it does everything fast. handles, brakes and accelerates like a indycar.

here's the problem. BMWs are addictive!! you already have been bitten, even if you don't know it. start with the Z, get either a e21 or e30, then later get the other, and by the time your my age-- well you see where we're going with this. just ask charbel.

have fun.

[milotrain]

In order of preference for me personally

320i
325ix
2002

The ix and 2002 swap positions daily.

[Greg323i]

but 80s 320i's have 1.8 so shouldn't it be a 318i?

It is!... Everywhere else in the world.

I think BMW thought Americans wouldn't be too happy to find out the engines were getting smaller and kept the nomenclature that we were used to. Also, the 320i was BMW's break-though model in the U.S. so they probably didn't want to lose that momentum with a different model number.

[epmedia]

I think BMW thought Americans wouldn't be too happy to find out the engines were getting smaller and kept the nomenclature that we were used to. Also, the 320i was BMW's break-though model in the U.S. so they probably didn't want to lose that momentum with a different model number.

Yup, and you know, they should have kept the 2.0 and upgraded it instead
Stupid emissions crap anyways

[325Drew]

It is!... Everywhere else in the world.

I think BMW thought Americans wouldn't be too happy to find out the engines were getting smaller and kept the nomenclature that we were used to. Also, the 320i was BMW's break-though model in the U.S. so they probably didn't want to lose that momentum with a different model number.

This is opposite for the newer e46 323i's with the 2.5ltr Can anyone explain that one... i know they are just a lower model 325i. When explaining numerical bmw nomenclature to the average person i leave out those models and the z series. But up top you forgot to list the 8 series.

[B10 BITURBO]

20 years ago i had a 323 Euro model.. 4 speed sport seats,, sunroof ALPINA 15" wheels,, this car was a mysteri had vented rearbrakes ,, ALPINA extra gauge dashboard ,, and some other items ,, but engine was oem M20B23.. bought headers frm BTB in UK

these cars where cool then ,, and still are,,

they felt a lot more brutal vs 323 or even 325 E30

[Jester323]

I love my e21. It's not my DD, although I'm driving it more often now in the summer because it's so much fun to drive, especially with the e30 325i power plant installed in it. It's not something that most people get or understand, it's not rational. I don't care, I prefer the e21.

On paper, the e30 is a "better" car listing practical pros & cons. I'm currently looking to replace my DD SUV with an e30 325iX, but the e21 will still be the fun summer car.

[Scott72]

I have owned both and I am torn to which I liked better (neither is a DD). I tend to like the looks of a done up E21 better. I also like the "rawness". Granted, both of my E21's were grey market cars with M20's in them. My E30 is also gray market (Hartge H23). I like the quality of the build better in the E30 - just feels more solid. I also like the much more advanced design of the front suspension.

If you can find a 323I E21 I highly suggest driving one. Kinda the best of both worlds.

[TheJonas]

Drew- your e46 2.5 was called a 323 because the previous, less resticted version of the same engine came under the emissions crap and LOST power...

BMWs official wording goes somthing like "for the continuity of the model/brand...". So,318 was changed in name two/three years after the displacement changed...many, many of the engines/model names don't match up...no biggie, it's just branding, but it does work for easy reference till you memorize the engine(five digit) and chassis(3 digit give or take) codes and the combinations they were available in...or readily swappable...or would look cool in cars you already own....You get it.

as for my 2cents? well, I have an e21 but they are all great cars...You should think about use, economy, ect. If I was picking I'd go for the highly modified e21(give or take the peruvian e21 s52) and an e34(maybe e39)...but I get to count on an MINI for trips, and it covers feul economy for me. Drew- your e46 2.5 was called a 323 because the previous, less resticted version of the same engine came under the emissions crap and LOST power...

BMWs official wording goes somthing like "for the continuity of the model/brand...". So,318 was changed in name two/three years after the displacement changed...many, many of the engines/model names don't match up...no biggie, it's just branding, but it does work for easy reference till you memorize the engine(five digit) and chassis(3 digit give or take) codes and the combinations they were available in...or readily swappable...or would look cool in cars you already own....You get it.

as for my 2cents? well, I have an e21 but they are all great cars...You should think about use, economy, ect. If I was picking I'd go for the highly modified e21(give or take the peruvian e21 s52) and an e34(maybe e39)...but I get to count on an MINI for trips, and it covers feul economy for me.

[tomscat1]

I love my e21. It's not my DD, although I'm driving it more often now in the summer because it's so much fun to drive, especially with the e30 325i power plant installed in it. It's not something that most people get or understand, it's not rational. I don't care, I prefer the e21.

On paper, the e30 is a "better" car listing practical pros & cons. I'm currently looking to replace my DD SUV with an e30 325iX, but the e21 will still be the fun summer car.

I am certainly no authority on this, and please keep in mind that, as Jester said, a lot of this is not rational, but rather a very subjective matter of taste and opinion.

Over the past 6 years or so, I have owned 3 E30s (still have two) and 6 E21s (still have 4). That is crazy, I know, but it is my hobby, and I have a very understanding wife. I currently have three of them registered: 1989 325ix, 1989 325ic (convertible), and the 1982 323i Baur. The E30 is clearly the more 'substantial' car and it is a great automobile.
I thought I had reached an ideal situation when I acquired the 325ix (The Ultimate Snowmobile!) and the convertible for the summer. Then the opportunity for the Baur came along.... that is the only car that I would consider getting rid of the E30 convertible for. And that continues to be the plan... although maybe not just yet. It is too hard to part with a drop top in this weather. My son is driving it presently, and loving it.
I will winnow the field down, eventually, but I plan to hold onto two cars for sure: the 323i Baur, and the 325ix. They are both an absolute blast to drive, and that is what I look for. I prefer the road feel of the E21s, the style, the 323i engine, the Baur top.... it doesn't get any better than this, in my view. I greatly enjoyed Jeff's Odyssey to Bimmerfest (Alaska to Pasadena) in his Baur a month or so ago. Wow.
Nothing can touch the 325ix in the snow. 'Nuff said.
BTW, the 1982 Baur is my daily driver, as well as my restoration project. A labor of love.

[bflan2001]

I've driven more E30s than E21s, but I've never owned an E30...The only two models I would get in an E30 are the late model 318is and the 325ix. A standard 325i/e/318 is way too common and boring. I think part of the reason I like the E21 more is because it's so much more unique. I wouldn't call it a 'rare' car just yet, but you definitely don't see them everyday like you do E30s. I also like the simplicity of the E21 vs. the E30. E21s are very easy to work on.


OT: i hear a lot of 'nothing can touch it' claims coming from ix owners..they do pretty well in the snow, but just about any audi aside from a TT will run circles around them

[milotrain]

Nothing can touch the 325ix in the snow.

I drive to Summit Colorado each winter around christmas and although I severely love the long distance capabilities of my Volvo 850 Turbo wagon (I seriously can't think of a better long distance hauler) the moment I hit snow I pine hard for an ix. I've always wanted one. It will happen, hopefully before they go the way of the e30 M3.

I've driven more E30s than E21s, but I've never owned an E30...The only two models I would get in an E30 are the late model 318is and the 325ix. A standard 325i/e/318 is way too common and boring. I think part of the reason I like the E21 more is because it's so much more unique. I wouldn't call it a 'rare' car just yet, but you definitely don't see them everyday like you do E30s. I also like the simplicity of the E21 vs. the E30. E21s are very easy to work on.


OT: i hear a lot of 'nothing can touch it' claims coming from ix owners..they do pretty well in the snow, but just about any audi aside from a TT will run circles around them

But almost every "all wheel drive" car is biased to the front. The fun thing about the ix is that it's biased to the rear. It's like driving a grippy tail happy awd car in the snow. That's why I hear people love them so much. Most 4x4s don't have a bias (I think), and most AWD cars are front, but the ix... the ix is different

[Dr320i]

Here is my opinion:

The 2002 was thee iconic vehicle fro BMW and really put them on the map. However it was very basic for creature comforts and was a 1960 design with 4speed transmissions and such.

The E30 was a vehicle made for mass consumption. They were made for a high school cheerleader to a weekend racer. The had all the modern conveniences, EFI, leather, sunroofs, etc of a late 80's to early 90's design.

But that is a E30's downfall. The time period is the infancy of those modern conveniences in a mass consumption vehicle. All the vehicles from all the manufacturers from that era have poor performance, electrical gremlins, plasticy interiors that rattle.

The E21 is the compromise bridging the simpleness of the 2002 with the performance of an E30.

However, the E30 has less tuning requirements and options. You have a 2.5L I6, rudimentary EFI, a 5-speed transmission. Add a H&R cup kit, 16-inch wheels and then drive it.

I like a E21 with 45mm side draft Webers, 12.5:1 compression, a 304 cam, 4.11 gears, a 5-speed, 15x10 wheels, almost solid coilovers and the smell of race gas.

[1980 320iS]

Pardon my ignorance (I may have asked this before) but......

What is this snow you speak of and why does it cause you to long for an ix?

[E21Adam]

Pardon my ignorance (I may have asked this before) but......

What is this snow you speak of and why does it cause you to long for an ix?

That is all

[MrGumby]

Pardon my ignorance (I may have asked this before) but......

What is this snow you speak of and why does it cause you to long for an ix?

I think it's related to something called rain, maybe?

[gerryc]

In order of preference for me personally

320i
325ix
2002

The ix and 2002 swap positions daily.

2002 all the way!

Milo, I am going to look you up when I get out to LA (a few weeks) and show you why. ;-)

G

I like a E21 with 45mm side draft Webers, 12.5:1 compression, a 304 cam, 4.11 gears, a 5-speed, 15x10 wheels, almost solid coilovers and the smell of race gas.

OH! I have one of those!

You want it? ;-)

G

[tomscat1]

Pardon my ignorance (I may have asked this before) but......

What is this snow you speak of and why does it cause you to long for an ix?

See all that white fluffy stuff kicking up after ALL FOUR wheels? That is snow. WHHEEEE!

Next winter I think I shall go Audi hunting, just to see if I can show bflan the error of his ways. One of my son's friends just bought an Audi Quattro Coupe.... 1991 , I think. Perhaps I will give him a call. Stay tuned.

[1980 320iS]

See all that white fluffy stuff kicking up after ALL FOUR wheels? That is snow.

I've seen it. In a picture. THAT stuff... It's what caused my ancestors to emigrate from some silly, overtaxed, frozen European country to a land that is more hospitable to human habitation. (Bazillions of years of evolution did NOT give humans fur coats, pads on our feet nor claws to keep us from slipping on the ice. Ergo, polar bears are supposed to live where it snows, not humans.)

Picking an E30 over an E21 because of its performance in the snow is just wrong, in my ever-so-humble opinion. To me, it's like choosing a Lambo over an F-car because of the mileage.

And I call BS on Toyotech -- I don't think he knows what rain is either...

[tomscat1]

I've seen it. In a picture. THAT stuff... It's what caused my ancestors to emigrate from some silly, overtaxed, frozen European country to a land that is more hospitable to human habitation. (Bazillions of years of evolution did NOT give humans fur coats, pads on our feet nor claws to keep us from slipping on the ice. Ergo, polar bears are supposed to live where it snows, not humans.)

Picking an E30 over an E21 because of its performance in the snow is just wrong, in my ever-so-humble opinion. To me, it's like choosing a Lambo over an F-car because of the mileage.

And I call BS on Toyotech -- I don't think he knows what rain is either...

Who picked an E30 over an E21? Not I!! I have a couple of BOTH! And for those of us who like the change of the seasons, it is nice to have cars for all seasons also.