Teves Mk 60 as stand alone ABS

[ScotcH]

Seems like the right thread to ask a few basic questions. I'm considering MK60 for an E36 M3. ABS only, no DSC, yaw, steering, etc.

- I see some talk about re-coding the controller for specific caliper-piston sizes, car track and width, wheel size, etc. Is this necessary for an E36 with non-OEM calipers and non-OEM brake bias? Or just a fine-tune tweak that some do, but not needed.

- What's the "custom harness" addressing? Is it an E46 M3 OEM harness, modified for things like; adding an OBDII connector, power & gnd in, control in (pressures and brake-light) ?

- I've read that some controllers can be re-programmed, and some cannot (ignoring the so called motorsport version). But I seem to see the same part number for both. Clarity?

We ran the CLS version for a bit before switching to Bosch M4:
- No issues in our case with programming. Ran it on an e46 sedan, front brakes were Brembo, rear were 325i. Didn't program anything
- Custom harness is a nice plug and play, but we just used a harness from a junk car and wired it ourselves. It need a few basics from the car (power, ground, brake switch). The rest is part of the system (OBD2 port, wheel speeds, pressure sensors, etc) For running wheel speed sensor wires, a decent shielded twisted pair cable works well.
- Yes some can ... mythical programmers exist ... I had no luck reaching any of them, maybe more accessible now The programmable units (forget part number, it's in the threads) are hard to find. I got lucky on ebay. I actually have one that I'm not using

[olemiss540]

Scotch,

Any link to a good shielded wire? The one I used is bulky and looks a bit ridiculous.

[ScotcH]

Scotch,

Any link to a good shielded wire? The one I used is bulky and looks a bit ridiculous.

I just went to a local electronics store ... it was like 30c/ foot, 24awg I think .. twisted pair, with shield. It's grey, and pretty thin and flexible. No idea on brand though

[golgo13]

- I see some talk about re-coding the controller for specific caliper-piston sizes, car track and width, wheel size, etc. Is this necessary for an E36 with non-OEM calipers and non-OEM brake bias? Or just a fine-tune tweak that some do, but not needed.

It is my understanding that the software in the MK60 is smart enough to adjust to most hardware changes without needing a tune.

[aeronaut]

You guys ROCK!

[aeronaut]

We ran the CLS version for a bit before switching to Bosch M4:
- No issues in our case with programming. Ran it on an e46 sedan, front brakes were Brembo, rear were 325i. Didn't program anything
- Custom harness is a nice plug and play, but we just used a harness from a junk car and wired it ourselves. It need a few basics from the car (power, ground, brake switch). The rest is part of the system (OBD2 port, wheel speeds, pressure sensors, etc) For running wheel speed sensor wires, a decent shielded twisted pair cable works well.
- Yes some can ... mythical programmers exist ... I had no luck reaching any of them, maybe more accessible now The programmable units (forget part number, it's in the threads) are hard to find. I got lucky on ebay. I actually have one that I'm not using

Yea, I'm starting to think the programmers that can program a MK60 to specific parameters (wheel size, etc) are non-existent. 3DM says it can be done, but then says they don't do it, then have a place-marker for a link to someone that can do it, but no link. lol. 3DM also said, any of the units can be re-flashed to CSL. I'd be happy with that...but am having fun even nailing that down. I think even a stock M3 flash is gonna be the tits compared to my 3channel.

Thanks for the info!

[MPWRCPE]

Yea, I'm starting to think the programmers that can program a MK60 to specific parameters (wheel size, etc) are non-existent. 3DM says it can be done, but then says they don't do it, then have a place-marker for a link to someone that can do it, but no link. lol. 3DM also said, any of the units can be re-flashed to CSL. I'd be happy with that...but am having fun even nailing that down. I think even a stock M3 flash is gonna be the tits compared to my 3channel.

Thanks for the info!

Andrew Liddell can do it. His Bookface page is here https://www.facebook.com/bmwm3motorsport/?fref=ts .

Busy guy but very good, has hardware solutions as well.

Not sure but I believe only the 813.3 units can be reflashed.

From my conversation with Andrew: "90% of the pumps out there are not programable with race firmware, if you find any which are ending 813.3 (ATE Teves part number) these are almost always fitted with an EPROM and can be upgraded."

[aeronaut]

What I've read, and been told by a few re-sellers of the controllers, is that any MK60 (818 or 813) can be reprogrammed with the CSL program, but only the 813 can have "custom" modifications.
Now, there's that chance that some resellers don't reflash and users like me wouldn't know, and I give someone $150 for nothing. There is that chance.

- - - Updated - - -

OH, and thanks the contact info for Andrew (although I'm not a facebooker).
At this point, I'd probably just install whatever version I can get my hands on, and be happy.

[MPWRCPE]

What I've read, and been told by a few re-sellers of the controllers, is that any MK60 (818 or 813) can be reprogrammed with the CSL program, but only the 813 can have "custom" modifications.
Now, there's that chance that some resellers don't reflash and users like me wouldn't know, and I give someone $150 for nothing. There is that chance.

- - - Updated - - -

OH, and thanks the contact info for Andrew (although I'm not a facebooker).
At this point, I'd probably just install whatever version I can get my hands on, and be happy.

No Bookface here either but if you need his email PM me.

I'll be doing the MK60 conversion this summer hopefully as I'm tired of staring at all of the parts lol.

[golgo13]

Looks like there are a couple threads talking about MK60 at the moment.

I did this, it's really easy if you already have a harness solution. You just need a decent flare tool and a line bender (I didn't use one). I had a local buddy with a nice $300 flare tool I that borrowed. Feel free to message me or email if you have specific questions, etc.

The majority of the work is running the wiring harness and removing the old MK20 wires (or not).

I have some pictures on IG for those that partake in that sort of thing.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDwujS5JzTd/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CD0iNnHJCr4/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CD1cG5jpISy/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEfrw-5JHM4/

[aeronaut]

I'm mid-install of my MK60 on 95 M3.
Question on wiring of ABS wheel speed sensors.

E36: Cutting and inspecting the wire, the E36 ABS speed sensor wires are 1-wire+twisted ground w/shielding. (The uninsulated ground and shielding are electrically the same.)
MK60: From the wiring diagram and from the MK60 harness I have, the MK60 wires appear to be 2 wire twisted pair, 1 voltage + 1 signal.

This means, if using the original wiring in the E36, either the voltage or the signal needs to be connected to the ground/shielding wire???

[DrZiplok]

I'm mid-install of my MK60 on 95 M3.
Question on wiring of ABS wheel speed sensors.

E36: Cutting and inspecting the wire, the E36 ABS speed sensor wires are 1-wire+twisted ground w/shielding. (The uninsulated ground and shielding are electrically the same.)
MK60: From the wiring diagram and from the MK60 harness I have, the MK60 wires appear to be 2 wire twisted pair, 1 voltage + 1 signal.

This means, if using the original wiring in the E36, either the voltage or the signal needs to be connected to the ground/shielding wire???

The Mk60 sensors are a current-mode device; they pass either 7mA or 14mA depending on whether they are sensing the tooth or the gap in the tone ring. The wires are not "voltage + signal"; they're a circuit, out and back.

As long as the shield in the E36 wiring isn't connected to ground anywhere, you'll be fine re-using the wiring as-is. A twisted pair would be preferred, but for a current-mode signal it's not essential.

[aeronaut]

Thanks, I ended up buying some twisted pair and re-running all the wheel sensor wires.

[lapoune]

Bumping this...I have a s54 z3mc that I want to convert using a 2001 z3 mk60 for abs only (car is on a aem infinity). Any differences for abs only in the mk60 ecu between the z3 and m3? Also have a m3 csl\zhp module that I can use but would rather keep it for another project. The z3 mk60 I have is 802.3 I think.

[aeronaut]

Here's what I *think*, the solenoid/valve hardware for all the MK60 units are the same (not the same as the MK60E5). But the algorithms are different based on the application and is represented by the part number. A 802.3 for a Z3 may have different expectations for F/R bias, caliper size, tire size, etc? I have no idea what that might be, but that's the kind of thing they change in the algorithm.

[lapoune]

This is what I'm wondering, guess I will have to try and report back.

[DrZiplok]

Here's what I *think*, the solenoid/valve hardware for all the MK60 units are the same (not the same as the MK60E5). But the algorithms are different based on the application and is represented by the part number. A 802.3 for a Z3 may have different expectations for F/R bias, caliper size, tire size, etc? I have no idea what that might be, but that's the kind of thing they change in the algorithm.

The units seem to be pretty flexible, especially if you're running them in "amateur motorsport mode" with just the gyro module connected. I have one in a Volvo 240 wagon that gets punted pretty hard (endurance racing) with no obvious issues, even though the weight, F/R bias, etc. etc. are nothing like the E46.

[bimmerbumm193]

I would like to share my experience with this install and see if anyone else has noticed this. When we start this install we are faced with two options regarding installing pressure sensors, option 1 is to use the e46 M3 cylinder/MS54 booster or option 2 is to keep the E36 master and run Tees in the lines and use a thread-in blocks for the pressure sensors. I went the E46 master route. The thing is though that the e46 master has a 25/25mm master whereas the e36 M3 has a 25/22 master. So now the bias is off when using stock M3 brakes. While the ABS system is working you dont notice it, but if the ABS stops working for some reason the front tires lock very easily, to the point where the car is not raceable. My ABS stopped working at one event (still havent figured out why) and I had to pack up and go home because you could only use the brakes at maybe 50-60% before the fronts would lock. This also means that when the ABS is in a working state, that the ABS is activating prematurely and I am assuming I am loosing braking capacity from the rear.

Has anybody else noticed this? I think I will look for a Non-m E46 master that has a similar 25/22 bias that fits the Ms54 booster to try to return the bias to original.

[mslevin]

I've had good luck asking questions (and have learned a lot) from this group on Facebook: BMW MK60 Motorsport ABS

[Chibo]

I went the E46 master route. The thing is though that the e46 master has a 25/25mm master whereas the e36 M3 has a 25/22 master.

I was under the impression that this is wrong, the MK60 E46 M3 masters are 25/22 and the MK20 E46 M3 masters are 25/20.

Anyway, I am posting here because I have this system in a Miata with a 24mm tandem master. Pre-MK60 I had a prop valve in the rear line that cut the brake pressure significantly, but with the MK60 this throws a plausibility error since the split is too great. What are other people doing in this situation? Ignoring the error or setting the bias such that the pressure error doesn't occur and let the ABS sort out the rear of the car?

I haven't driven it yet, just finished the swap this past week and I have a test day scheduled for next weekend so I'm trying to sort it.

[aeronaut]

I was under the impression that this is wrong, the MK60 E46 M3 masters are 25/22 and the MK20 E46 M3 masters are 25/20.

Anyway, I am posting here because I have this system in a Miata with a 24mm tandem master. Pre-MK60 I had a prop valve in the rear line that cut the brake pressure significantly, but with the MK60 this throws a plausibility error since the split is too great. What are other people doing in this situation? Ignoring the error or setting the bias such that the pressure error doesn't occur and let the ABS sort out the rear of the car?

I haven't driven it yet, just finished the swap this past week and I have a test day scheduled for next weekend so I'm trying to sort it.

My bias is set such that it's on the border of getting the error (yea, pressure bias un-plausable, or something. Hilarious). I'll run a weekend, and sometime during that weekend the code may or may not occur. I can't tell during driving, only after checking codes. So I set the bias to get the car to do what I want, not to avoid the error code.

I wish we knew what the ABS algorithm actually did with the sensor inputs. Some of BMW documentation implies the pressure sensors and the brake light switch are redundant.

[Chibo]

My bias is set such that it's on the border of getting the error (yea, pressure bias un-plausable, or something. Hilarious). I'll run a weekend, and sometime during that weekend the code may or may not occur. I can't tell during driving, only after checking codes. So I set the bias to get the car to do what I want, not to avoid the error code.

I wish we knew what the ABS algorithm actually did with the sensor inputs. Some of BMW documentation implies the pressure sensors and the brake light switch are redundant.

Thank you, that jives from what I heard from someone else today too, which is a good sign. They told me that they adjusted the prop valve until INPA was reporting ~60% rear pressure versus front, which comes close enough to what I've heard about the error happening at like less than 62% or something.

I'd also love to know what matters, it does seem like the brake light switch is important though. Should probably just try to find another unit that I can send out to be flashed with the Conti race software, too bad my mounting location means the unit needs to come out of the car to get the controller off the module.