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Thread: Teves Mk 60 as stand alone ABS

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobne View Post
    Anyone have the canbus protocol for it?

    could you get wheel speed at 1mb?
    I've looked … I gave up. Apparently there is something for AIM MXL2 dash, but I have not tried it. We're switching to Bosch M4 ABS, and that should be fully compatible with Motec and AIM
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobne View Post
    Anyone have the canbus protocol for it?

    could you get wheel speed at 1mb?
    I did. I'll post what I used.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Peter Florance
    PFTuning.com

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by pftuning View Post
    I did. I'll post what I used.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    That would be great since we're moving the CSL ABS to our old e36 race car ... would love to be able to log this stuff in Aim!
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


  4. #154
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    Installing a standalone Mk60 DSC III (813.3) in my race car and I am really puzzled about the contradicting information on the brake light switch (pin 41).
    So far, I've seen 3 different suggestions:

    1. Here on page 3 someone suggested that the pin 41 needs +12V when the brake pedal is pressed.
    Quote: "You need +12V and you can use the brake light. That's basically what I'm doing; I come off the brake light switch which basically just sends 12V to the brake lights. It's just an on/off signal that needs 12V."

    2. This document says that pin 41 needs connection to ground when the brake pedal is pressed and no connection when released:
    http://www.m3e30.fr/medias/files/mk6...structions.pdf
    Quote: "The MK60 requires to see a chassis ground connection in the brake light (pin 41) when the brake pedal is pressed and
    no connection when it’s not pressed."

    3. This document says that pin 41 needs no connection when the brake pedal is pressed and connection to ground when the pedal is released:
    http://info.3dmmotorsport.com/e36-mk...allation-guide
    Quote: "The MK60 requires a “notification” when the brake pedal has been depressed in order to know when to monitor and regular wheel slip as required. The proper signals are GROUND when the pedal is NOT pressed and open circuit when the pedal is pressed. This signal is provided by the yellow/white wire"

    So ... which one of the three is the correct one?

    @pftuning would be awesome if you post the info you have on the CAN bus messages or any extra info about the motorsports tune (i.e. if it can take input via CAN too, etc.) Thank you!

    Also, is an active CAN-bus output, without handshake to a BMW ECU & instrument cluster, a way to tell that Mk60 has been programmed with the Motorsport flash (to verify if a vendor who claims they did Motorsports flash that they really did it)?

    Any info on the output signal for the wheel speeds on pins 8, 10, 12, 14 - is it a 0-5V square wave or 0-12V - anyone scoped these?

  5. #155
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    Should be 1MB/s at ID 0X4A0
    Bytes start at 1, not 0





    Signalname
    Byte Bit Init Range Conversion Comments
    Direction of travel FL 1 0 0 0 Forward
    1 backwards
    Driving lift detection (in the Audi D3/ê and Colorado)
    Wheel speed FL 2,1 15..1 V_INIT 0.. 326,39 km/h 0.01 x
    value V _ Uspg
    undervoltage V _ error sensor error
    Low byte 1, High Byte 2 (resolution 1.28 km/h if only the High Byte is used); Wheel speed refers to the ' Kombi 3 ' tire circumference
    Direction F R 3 0 0 0 Forward
    1 backwards
    Driving lift detection (in the Audi D3/ê and Colorado)
    Wheel speed FR 4,3 15..1 V_INIT 0.. 326,39 km/h 0.01 x
    value V _ Uspg
    undervoltage V _ error sensor error
    Low byte 1, High Byte 2 (resolution 1.28 km/h if only the High Byte is used); Wheel speed refers to the ' Kombi 3 ' tire circumference
    Direction of travelRL 5 0 0 0 Forward
    1 backwards
    Driving lift detection (in the Audi D3/ê and Colorado)
    Wheel speed RL 6,5 15..1 V_INIT 0.. 326,39 km/h 0.01 x
    value V _ Uspg
    undervoltage V _ error sensor error
    Low byte 1, High Byte 2 (resolution 1.28 km/h if only the High Byte is used); Wheel speed refers to the ' Kombi 3 ' tire circumference
    Direction of travelRR 7 0 0 0 Forward
    1 backwards
    Driving lift detection (in the Audi D3/ê and Colorado)
    Wheel speed RR 8,7 15..1 V_INIT 0.. 326,39 km/h 0.01 x
    value V _ Uspg
    undervoltage V _ error sensor error
    Low byte 1, High Byte 2 (resolution 1.28 km/h if only the High Byte is used); Wheel speed refers to the ' Kombi 3 ' tire circumference

    - - - Updated - - -

    !!!! VW Counting starts with Byte 1 – Byte 8 instead of Byte 0 – Byte 7

    message: Sender: Bremse
    Identifier: 5BB H transfer rate: 1000 kBaud
    Length: 8 Byte repeated: 20 ms (CT MK60E5 ABS/ASR)
    Receiver: all

    Signalname Byte Bit Init range calculation note
    Wheel pressure FL 3 0 - 7 0 0 – 254 bar (PH) = (HEX) [bar] Signal shows wheel pressure FL
    Wheel pressure FR 5 0 - 7 0 0 – 254 bar (PH) = (HEX) [bar] Signal shows wheel pressure FR
    Wheel pressure RL 6 0 - 7 0 0 – 254 bar (PH) = (HEX) [bar] Signal shows wheel pressure RL
    Wheel pressure RR 8 0 - 7 0 0 – 254 bar (PH) = (HEX) [bar] Signal shows wheel pressure RR

    - - - Updated - - -

    Transmitted Constants
    CAN ID 0x05BA
    Signal name Byte Message Offset Bit Init range CDL3 Constant Value set 5/26/2013 calculation note
    TCS threshold factor 1 0 0 - 7 0 30 - 250 % GP Constant 6 0 Factor[%]=Wert,Auflösung 1% Factor for TCS slip threshold:threshold = Factor * Basis threshold [1/2]
    TCS Mode 2 1 0 - 7 0 0, 1 or 2 GP Constant 7 0 TCS Betriebsmodus 0=off
    Circumference front - low byte 3 2 0 - 7 0 GP Constant 3 234 Wheel circumference[mm] = 256*high + lowGuilty range: 1440 mm bis 2880 mm
    Circumference front- high byte 4 3 0 - 7 0 GP Constant 2 7 7,234 is 7*256 + 234 = 2026mm; circumference of 645 dia tire t.e. (Beispiel 1440 high 0000 0101 low 1010 0000)
    Circumference rear- low byte 5 4 0 - 7 0 GP Constant 5 234 t.e. (Beispiel 2880 high 0000 1011 low 1000 0000)
    Circumference rear - high byte 6 5 0 - 7 0 GP Constant 4 7 7,234 is 7*256 + 234 = 2026mm; circumference of 645 dia tire
    ABS switch 7 6 0 - 3 0 0 - 15 GP Constant 1 0 0 (0000) default = max decal; 9 (1001) =min decal; guilty range only 0-9 (from15)=10 possible position;
    Schaltstatusstate_cut 8 7 0 - 1 0 Phys= CANBit 0..3, 0 = no shift in progress1 = up shift2 = down shift If an shift is requested and will be done the bit up or down will be set until the shift is complete ready.

    - - - Updated - - -

    P2_Chic_brakingcropped.jpg
    Last edited by pftuning; 05-29-2019 at 09:59 AM.
    Peter Florance
    PFTuning.com

  6. #156
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    Hmmm. Are you sure these last ones are Teves Mk60 and not Teves Mk60e5 ?
    Keep in mind Teves Mk60 and Teves Mk60e5 are different ABS controllers and AFAIK Mk60e5 is the one which allows setting wheel circumference via CAN and has ABS switch level fro 0 to 9.
    From what I've heard the regular Mk60 (the E46 one this thread is about - 813.3, 818.3 and the CSL 817.3) can't do any of this.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by mx5 View Post
    Hmmm. Are you sure these last ones are Teves Mk60 and not Teves Mk60e5 ?
    Keep in mind Teves Mk60 and Teves Mk60e5 are different ABS controllers and AFAIK Mk60e5 is the one which allows setting wheel circumference via CAN and has ABS switch level fro 0 to 9.
    From what I've heard the regular Mk60 (the E46 one this thread is about - 813.3, 818.3 and the CSL 817.3) can't do any of this.
    I used that info to calibrate speeds, so yes.
    Unit came from Curt Jung in 2012 or so.

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    Peter Florance
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by pftuning View Post
    - - - Updated - - -

    !!!! VW Counting starts with Byte 1 – Byte 8 instead of Byte 0 – Byte 7

    message: Sender: Bremse
    Identifier: 5BB H transfer rate: 1000 kBaud
    Length: 8 Byte repeated: 20 ms (CT MK60E5 ABS/ASR)
    Receiver: all

    Signalname Byte Bit Init range calculation note
    Wheel pressure FL 3 0 - 7 0 0 – 254 bar (PH) = (HEX) [bar] Signal shows wheel pressure FL
    Wheel pressure FR 5 0 - 7 0 0 – 254 bar (PH) = (HEX) [bar] Signal shows wheel pressure FR
    Wheel pressure RL 6 0 - 7 0 0 – 254 bar (PH) = (HEX) [bar] Signal shows wheel pressure RL
    Wheel pressure RR 8 0 - 7 0 0 – 254 bar (PH) = (HEX) [bar] Signal shows wheel pressure RR

    - - - Updated - - -


    Just to be crystal super duper clear -- you found the brake pressure CAN messages for the E46 M3 DSC Mk60, to where we can tell an AIM logger to sniff for the ^^^ message and retrieve the data?
    "Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit

    1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
    1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
    2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmerman535i View Post
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    Just to be crystal super duper clear -- you found the brake pressure CAN messages for the E46 M3 DSC Mk60, to where we can tell an AIM logger to sniff for the ^^^ message and retrieve the data?
    MK60E5

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    Peter Florance
    PFTuning.com

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by mx5 View Post
    Sure, but BMW Motorsport and AFAIK Motorsport units supplied by Curt Jung used both Mk60 and Mk60e5 at that time.
    Are you sure the unit supplied by Curt Jung wasn't Mk60e5.? AFAIK Mk60e5 is a totally different animal compared to the Mk60 units (different controller, different pinout, etc.)

    - - - Updated - - -


    Ah, ok. Here we go Mk60e5 is a totally different unit than the Mk60
    Sorry, yes it was e5.

    But my data was for both 500k and 1m setups, so I'm thinking it will be there on MK60. Unless someone has looked.


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    Peter Florance
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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by pftuning View Post
    MK60E5

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  12. #162
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    Sorry. I totally missed that. If you're looking for wheel speed I found it first with my sniffer.


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    Peter Florance
    PFTuning.com

  13. #163
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    I just found some info here:
    https://rennlist.com/forums/data-acq...l#post12052670
    and here
    https://rennlist.com/forums/data-acq...l#post12035469

    Looks like the Mk60 transmits with CAN id 0x153

  14. #164
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    I'm not sure what this means but this document is what I used for everything except pressures. And my unit was 1Mb instead of 500K as listed on below.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/q7mxa6xop8...lish.docx?dl=0

    From the text, I thought it covered MK60 but it's a little confusing.
    Peter Florance
    PFTuning.com

  15. #165
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    Interesting. Thanks for the document!
    It seems to mention both Mk60 and Mk60E5
    Now I started wondering if the 0x153 can id messages are just for the OEM BMW flashes (i.e. for the regular E46 street cars and the CSL) and a Motorsports flash on a Mk60 would change the CAN ids to these from your file

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by mx5 View Post
    Interesting. Thanks for the document!
    It seems to mention both Mk60 and Mk60E5
    Now I started wondering if the 0x153 can id messages are just for the OEM BMW flashes (i.e. for the regular E46 street cars and the CSL) and a Motorsports flash on a Mk60 would change the CAN ids to these from your file
    Possibly.
    I know our autocross car has ASC and uses 0x1F0 for wheel speeds.
    But it seems like the document suggests a lot of applications use those addresses.

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    Peter Florance
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  17. #167
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    Does anyone have contact info for Curt Jung? Will try to get more info about these Mk60 vs Mk60E5 motorsport flashes and eventually get him to program a unit for me.

  18. #168
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    Old unanswered question.

    Quote Originally Posted by mx5 View Post
    Any info on the output signal for the wheel speeds on pins 8, 10, 12, 14 - is it a 0-5V square wave or 0-12V - anyone scoped these?
    Curious on same topic.
    Many people using any number of systems would benefit by sharing this information.

    Thanks in advance.
    Alex Lipowich
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    Trying to make the world a better place with 5 extra throttle bodies at a time.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3 Euro LTW View Post
    Curious on same topic.
    Many people using any number of systems would benefit by sharing this information.

    Thanks in advance.
    RF WSPD.PNG

    8, 10, 12, 14 are 0-5V.

    The above picture is a screen shot of my settings...
    2003 E46 330i ZHP - Daily Driver | Bike Hauler
    1995 E36 M3 - Autocross | Fun


  20. #170
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    Guys, is anyone able to get ahold of the folks that sell/build the MK60 CAN emulators (for use with the MSS54HP)? I tried contacting him through the airventdisplay.no website but have not heard back. Thanks!
    Dave
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  21. #171
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  22. #172
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    Is there MK60E5/MK60 technical specification pdf document available somewhere?

    Like for the DME there is 4CC3KM0S.pdf which contains all information including DME CAN BUS messages.

    I am looking similar thing but for DSC to understand what are the data on these CAN BUS messages:
    0x1A0 Speed ​​K-CAN [14] (EHB3)
    0x2B2 Wheel pressures K-CAN [1] (EHB3)
    0x31D Status of flat tire indicator [6] (EHB3)

    Quote Originally Posted by pftuning View Post
    Did you get all this data from CAN BUS messages? Which CAN BUS message have G force Lat/Long values?

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotter View Post
    Is there MK60E5/MK60 technical specification pdf document available somewhere?

    Like for the DME there is 4CC3KM0S.pdf which contains all information including DME CAN BUS messages.

    I am looking similar thing but for DSC to understand what are the data on these CAN BUS messages:
    0x1A0 Speed ​​K-CAN [14] (EHB3)
    0x2B2 Wheel pressures K-CAN [1] (EHB3)
    0x31D Status of flat tire indicator [6] (EHB3)



    Did you get all this data from CAN BUS messages? Which CAN BUS message have G force Lat/Long values?
    GForce was from Motec CDL3
    I don't remember if the ABS accel data is broadcast but I can check my notes.

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  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by pftuning View Post
    GForce was from Motec CDL3
    I don't remember if the ABS accel data is broadcast but I can check my notes.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Those messages are sent in KBus I have logged them. Just want to decode what data do they hold. If you have any info it would be useful.

  25. #175
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    Seems like the right thread to ask a few basic questions. I'm considering MK60 for an E36 M3. ABS only, no DSC, yaw, steering, etc.

    - I see some talk about re-coding the controller for specific caliper-piston sizes, car track and width, wheel size, etc. Is this necessary for an E36 with non-OEM calipers and non-OEM brake bias? Or just a fine-tune tweak that some do, but not needed.

    - What's the "custom harness" addressing? Is it an E46 M3 OEM harness, modified for things like; adding an OBDII connector, power & gnd in, control in (pressures and brake-light) ?

    - I've read that some controllers can be re-programmed, and some cannot (ignoring the so called motorsport version). But I seem to see the same part number for both. Clarity?

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