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Thread: Teves Mk 60 as stand alone ABS

  1. #101
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    I have a source that states he can flash it. I have not done it yet, but bought 2 other ABS parts from him that nobody else sells and is as advertised. Not just a CSL or motorsports flash, but can be custom to your data.
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobuffs View Post
    I have a source that states he can flash it. I have not done it yet, but bought 2 other ABS parts from him that nobody else sells and is as advertised. Not just a CSL or motorsports flash, but can be custom to your data.
    So he could do the motorsports flash with a "square" tire setup and some consideration for sticky autocross tires as well as the abrupt nature of the discipline? Would this end up costing more than my car is worth?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    So he could do the motorsports flash with a "square" tire setup and some consideration for sticky autocross tires as well as the abrupt nature of the discipline? Would this end up costing more than my car is worth?
    When I worked with the Motorsports unit my customer got from Curt Jung, I was able to broadcast wheel diameters to the ABS unit via CANBus.
    Peter Florance
    PFTuning.com

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
    See answers below...
    Would you be willing to share your module info? if you're using the 0813 - 0818 it looks like the only digital outs are for the rear wheel speed sensors on pin 8 and pin 10.
    2003 E46 330i ZHP - Daily Driver | Bike Hauler
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Mdrei View Post
    Would you be willing to share your module info? if you're using the 0813 - 0818 it looks like the only digital outs are for the rear wheel speed sensors on pin 8 and pin 10.
    I'm happy to share what data I have. What are you looking for? Shoot me a PM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Mdrei View Post
    Would you be willing to share your module info? if you're using the 0813 - 0818 it looks like the only digital outs are for the rear wheel speed sensors on pin 8 and pin 10.
    That was my impression as well. Looks like the Mk60e5 have all 4, but the M3 and M3 CSL Mk60 only outputs the rear wheel speeds. Let's ask this another way ... has ANYONE gotten all 4 wheel speed outputs on the Mk60 from an M3 and M3 CSL? Actually done it, not just looking at a pin out diagram.
    Last edited by ScotcH; 05-11-2016 at 12:41 PM.
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  7. #107
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    I have wires run for all 4. The pin outs say all 4 are there, but I've never hooked it to anything. And in truth I'm not sure what I'd hook them to.

  8. #108
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    When I get around to implementing mine - 0813 - I'll be looking for the analog wheel speed outputs to feed into my Race Logic TC. However, I don't expect that'll be any time soon. I'm also not sure if I'll use the "outputs" from the controller, or just tap into the inputs from the wheel speed sensors into the controller.
    Last edited by jakermac; 05-11-2016 at 01:22 PM.

  9. #109
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    I think I have the same issue as gobuffs ... my warning light is always on. I see these codes. Everything seems to be reading ok (I don't have a steering sensor or CAN going into an ECU), car is still on the lift. Any ideas? Does the car need to be driven to turn off the error light?

    F E H L E R S P E I C H E R L E S E N
    ---------------------------------------Datum: 15.05.2016 19:36:32
    ECU: DSC_MK60
    JobStatus: OKAY
    Variante: DSC_MK60
    -------------------------------------------------------------ERGEBNIS: 4 Fehler im Fehlerspeicher !

    -------------------------------------------------------------5E1F ABS/ASC/DSC: VIN not initilised, execute LWS calibration
    No matching error symptom
    Test conditions fulfilled
    Error present now and already stored
    Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
    Fehlercode: 5E 1F E0 01 28 FF FF 00 08 00 0C
    -------------------------------------------------------------5E16 CAN Timeout instrument cluster
    No matching error symptom
    Test conditions fulfilled
    Error present now and already stored
    Error would not cause a warning lamp to light up
    Fehlercode: 5E 16 60 01 28 FF FF 00 08 00 0C
    -------------------------------------------------------------5E1E CAN Timeout LWS
    No matching error symptom
    Test conditions fulfilled
    Error present now and already stored
    Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
    Fehlercode: 5E 1E E0 01 28 FF FF 00 08 00 04
    -------------------------------------------------------------5E14 CAN Timeout DME/DDE
    No matching error symptom
    Test conditions fulfilled
    Error present now and already stored
    Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
    Fehlercode: 5E 14 E0 01 28 FF FF 00 08 00 04
    ================================================== ===========
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
    I think I have the same issue as gobuffs ... my warning light is always on. I see these codes. Everything seems to be reading ok (I don't have a steering sensor or CAN going into an ECU), car is still on the lift. Any ideas? Does the car need to be driven to turn off the error light?

    F E H L E R S P E I C H E R L E S E N
    ---------------------------------------Datum: 15.05.2016 19:36:32
    ECU: DSC_MK60
    JobStatus: OKAY
    Variante: DSC_MK60
    -------------------------------------------------------------ERGEBNIS: 4 Fehler im Fehlerspeicher !

    -------------------------------------------------------------5E1F ABS/ASC/DSC: VIN not initilised, execute LWS calibration
    No matching error symptom
    Test conditions fulfilled
    Error present now and already stored
    Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
    Fehlercode: 5E 1F E0 01 28 FF FF 00 08 00 0C
    -------------------------------------------------------------5E16 CAN Timeout instrument cluster
    No matching error symptom
    Test conditions fulfilled
    Error present now and already stored
    Error would not cause a warning lamp to light up
    Fehlercode: 5E 16 60 01 28 FF FF 00 08 00 0C
    -------------------------------------------------------------5E1E CAN Timeout LWS
    No matching error symptom
    Test conditions fulfilled
    Error present now and already stored
    Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
    Fehlercode: 5E 1E E0 01 28 FF FF 00 08 00 04
    -------------------------------------------------------------5E14 CAN Timeout DME/DDE
    No matching error symptom
    Test conditions fulfilled
    Error present now and already stored
    Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
    Fehlercode: 5E 14 E0 01 28 FF FF 00 08 00 04
    ================================================== ===========
    I have same/similar codes. They read a little differently on the Autel. The timeouts seem to be related to the lack of certain sensors that the full up system would have (DSC, steering angle) and the lack of the E46 gauge cluster. I don't expect these to impact performance of the ABS since the DSC and steering angle are only required for the TCS, not the ABS.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
    Cool, thanks. It's quiet. I only hear it because the hood is off. My Autel talks to it, can run all the pumps and valves, sensors are good, no codes.
    Wanted to self-report here...the louder ticking has been corrected because one sensor was NOT good/correct. I had reversed pins 2 and 3 on one of the pressure sensors and it was giving a wrong reading...on the order of 160 bar (2300 psi). Interestingly it wasn't setting an error code in the ABS unit because it was giving a reading, just not a correct one.

    I originally found it when I was playing around in the service functions on my Autel 708. I wasn't able to match the pressure sensors and then looked at the live data and found it.

    The ticking must have been related to the system thinking there was line pressure based on the sensor data.

    Probably not an issue for everyone as they may have pro's building their harness, but if you're a knucklehead DIY'er like me be sure to run thru service functions and check live data if you can because error codes alone don't capture everything.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
    I have same/similar codes. They read a little differently on the Autel. The timeouts seem to be related to the lack of certain sensors that the full up system would have (DSC, steering angle) and the lack of the E46 gauge cluster. I don't expect these to impact performance of the ABS since the DSC and steering angle are only required for the TCS, not the ABS.
    Random question, but does anyone have the full system minus the cluster and DME in use?
    2003 E46 330i ZHP - Daily Driver | Bike Hauler
    1995 E36 M3 - Autocross | Fun


  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Mdrei View Post
    Random question, but does anyone have the full system minus the cluster and DME in use?
    Define "full system". I pretty have it all except the ECU and the cluster...so I think the answer is yes.
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobuffs View Post
    Define "full system". I pretty have it all except the ECU and the cluster...so I think the answer is yes.
    I guess for clarification reasons I'll throw this out there.

    I’m working on a full system integration minus the Z3 M Coupe cluster and S54 DME because I’m keeping the S52.

    Items to be installed:

    ABS/DSC - 0818.3
    YAW/Rotation Sensor - CAN Based
    Steering Column with Steering Angle Sensor

    I was going to try to use the Steering Angle Sensor as a standalone, but haven’t been able to wake it up with the C125. I see static numbers for both angle and velocity, but without a wakeup message - haven’t figured it out yet - I’ve decided to install the full system.
    2003 E46 330i ZHP - Daily Driver | Bike Hauler
    1995 E36 M3 - Autocross | Fun


  14. #114
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    Not sure on the wake up message. You can see steering angle values but they aren't changing when you turn the wheel?

    There is a handshake issue (as I call it) that is present when you try to run the ABS pump stand alone. I think this is why the original setup on my install used the wheel speeds outputs to bypass this issue. When you turn the pump on it needs to handshake with something (its either the cluster or the ECU). If that handshake doesn't happen, the pump will not output data over CAN. I bought an emulator that allows the handshake to appear to happen to the pump and then data will stream.
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  15. #115
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    So I'm working on the CAN stuff now ... not getting too far. Do you have the CAN specs for this thing? I'm trying to integrate with my Motec M800, but I really have no idea what I'm doing. As soon as I power up the ABS, I lose communication with the Motec, so something is coming across on the CAN lines .... Any info on the CAN specs for the ABS would be helpful (speed, ID, addresses, etc).

    Also, do you have a link/contact for your CAN emulator, just in case I want to go that route?
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  16. #116
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    Is it 1mb/sec?
    I thought I got old ASC module to stream CANBus data on the bench (500kb/s)

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
    Peter Florance
    PFTuning.com

  17. #117
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    I don't have the specs for the CAN data. If the ABS (which runs at 500kb/sec) is different than than Motec then something has to give. When the ABS powers up it sends out a CAN signal to the network and if it doesn't get a proper response it will stop the CAN data stream. You pretty much need that emulator.

    Can the ABS talk to the Motec? Probably but it isn't going to be plug and play.

    I sent you the info on how to get the emulator.
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  18. #118
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    The Motorsports version ran at 1Mb.
    Peter Florance
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  19. #119
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    Thanks guys ... I have my motec guy working on a template now. The regular M3 and CSL ABS is 500 kbit (as is the Bosch M4 apparently, with very similar template, created by Teves/Conti). The Motec and AIM dash can both be switched to 500 kb (default to 1 mbit). We're working on it! And thanks for the emulator info. If I have to go that way, the emulator (or some version of it) can also probably rewrite the CAN message and stream at 1mbit. Hopefully it's not necessary.
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
    Thanks guys ... I have my motec guy working on a template now. The regular M3 and CSL ABS is 500 kbit (as is the Bosch M4 apparently, with very similar template, created by Teves/Conti). The Motec and AIM dash can both be switched to 500 kb (default to 1 mbit). We're working on it! And thanks for the emulator info. If I have to go that way, the emulator (or some version of it) can also probably rewrite the CAN message and stream at 1mbit. Hopefully it's not necessary.
    ScotcH,

    Please keep us posted! My car is going under the knife once I get the new brake booster. When I have all of the hard parts in hand and installed I'll start on the wiring with the hopes to get a better grip on what the partial system is telling me.

    I need more accurate CAN info to start writing a CAN template for the MoTeC C125.
    2003 E46 330i ZHP - Daily Driver | Bike Hauler
    1995 E36 M3 - Autocross | Fun


  21. #121
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    If the handshake doesn't happen, the CAN stream shuts down. You can fix this in 2 ways. 1. Use something to clear the store codes each time you turn the ABS on (INPA works, I would expect Carly could do it as well (both that gets to be a PITA each time you turn ABS on. Or 2. but the emulator. (Not cheap but it works)
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobuffs View Post
    If the handshake doesn't happen, the CAN stream shuts down. You can fix this in 2 ways. 1. Use something to clear the store codes each time you turn the ABS on (INPA works, I would expect Carly could do it as well (both that gets to be a PITA each time you turn ABS on. Or 2. but the emulator. (Not cheap but it works)
    Odd, the old ASC ABS module streamed on the bench.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
    Peter Florance
    PFTuning.com

  23. #123
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    1st test of the system at the track this past weekend. Verdict: Works perfectly, and no flat spotted tires And we came 3rd and 1st in the CTCC races (TouringCar.ca), with fastest lap times ... driver says he didn't even think about the ABS after the initial testing. It was completely non-intrusive, and he rarely felt it come on, if ever during the race. Didn't get any logging working yet, so no data, but so far so good!
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
    1st test of the system at the track this past weekend. Verdict: Works perfectly, and no flat spotted tires And we came 3rd and 1st in the CTCC races (TouringCar.ca), with fastest lap times ... driver says he didn't even think about the ABS after the initial testing. It was completely non-intrusive, and he rarely felt it come on, if ever during the race. Didn't get any logging working yet, so no data, but so far so good!
    Good to hear! Any pictures of the installation?
    2003 E46 330i ZHP - Daily Driver | Bike Hauler
    1995 E36 M3 - Autocross | Fun


  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Mdrei View Post
    Good to hear! Any pictures of the installation?
    Sure I'll post some up, but it's an e46, so pump and unit are in the stock location, and using mostly stock lines. Had a bit of creative bending since my MCs are Tilton, but otherwise, nothing special. I used a couple e36 OE m10 'T's for the pressure sensors (with an M12 to M10 adaptor), and some M10 to -3AN for the lines from the MCs. The front MC line has a pressure switch inline which triggers the brake lights, and also feeds the brake light input to the ABS.

    The lines rats nest, you can see the factory pressure sensors mounts on the strut tower (the Titlon MCs have individual pressure sensors feeding the Motec as well)
    IMG_20160503_200918.jpg

    Factory location for the ABS unit and the rear lines coming in (I had to make a new rear line ... our car has only one going back there ... weight I guess, lol)
    IMG_20160503_200837.jpg

    Factory harness cleaned ready for install.
    IMG_20160503_200959.jpg
    Last edited by ScotcH; 05-23-2016 at 06:41 PM.
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