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Thread: 2011 535i driveshaft vibration!

  1. #1
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    2011 535i driveshaft vibration!

    I took delivery of my 535i @ SC Performance Center 4/21/2011. As soon as I got on the highway, I noticed a driveshaft vibration that I could feel and hear (thrumming sound) starting around 55mph and still detectable up to about 75mph, but most prominent from 60-65mph. I've been back to the dealer (Valley BMW, Roanoke, VA) twice on this issue. The car is otherwise perfect. Very smooth, powerful, quiet and fuel efficient. The first visit, I took the service manager for a ride and he agreed there was some vibration and they put the car up on the lift and slowly ran the car (probably up to whatever speed the traction control would allow- 5 or 10 mph) and sais=d they could detect no vibration or runout in what turned out to be the axle halfshafts!! I reminded him that we were talking about the DRIVESHAFT. He said, yes, those things connected to the hubs. When I, again very patiently, explained the difference, he told me they found no problems and that whatever it was it was a NORMAL VIBRATION!!!! So, after a few weeks of stewing on this bit of intractability, I put my wife in the car, turned off the traction control, raised the car up on the lift in my shop and had her run it up to 1600-1700rpm in 8th gear (60-65mph; the speedo doesn't function with the wheels off the ground, apparently). The exact same vibration was felt,heard and visualized. It was even more apparent underneath the car than from the relatively insulated interior. Visible driveshaft (or as the British say, propshaft) shaking the diff housing and the tranny somewhat in their rubber mounts. So, armed with such incontrovertible evidence, I arranged another visit with the SM and he agreed to duplicate my test on their lift. However, when I got there they retreated back to their former brushoff, saying that such a test would be too dangerous (I guess it could be if you were dumb enough to grab on to a moving part or something). To confirm their case that such a vibration is normal, the SM and I drove a brand new 535i from the lot, and sure as the dickens, it had the same vibration at the same speed as mine, though not quite to the same extent. I have driven several of these cars 528, 535, and 550 prior to buying one. There was only one of those cars that exhibited even a trace of this problem, the SM just proved to me that several cars have this problem, not that THEY ALL DO IT. The vibration is about 3X the frequency of a tire imbalance shake, and makes the characteristic thrumming sound of a bent or out of balance driveshaft. I know people have had tire/ wheel issues on these cars, but I am practically certain that this is not the problem on my car. I've had plenty of tire problems on other vehicles (including my previous 06 330i with the sport package). This is different. I would appreciate any help, advice, etc from the other forum members..

  2. #2
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    I have heard of people requesting a BMWNA rep to come and assess a problem, you may need to push this past the service area you are using and get others involved. I do not have any vibration on my 550 nor would I accept someone telling me this is a normal thing. The 535's seem to have a few more problems and the dealerships do not want to take care of them.

  3. #3
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    Not to contradict what you say. But I've also noticed a vibration at those speeds. I've noticed that this happens when the rpms are really low, around 1k at eight gear. I just assumed that it was the engine lugging it to save on gas. Maybe this is a different problem?

    Ace

  4. #4
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    Not to contradict what you say. But I've also noticed a vibration at those speeds. I've noticed that this happens when the rpms are really low, around 1k at eight gear. I just assumed that it was the engine lugging it to save on gas. Maybe this is a different problem?

    Ace

  5. #5
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    Our 535 does it, but only in Comfort at very low RPM at low speed. Can be induced by just enough power to not let it downshift.

  6. #6
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    2011 535 driveshaft vibration

    Thanks to those who have replied. The vibration that my car exhibits is vehicle speed related and totally unaffected by engine RPM. I can select several different gears, even neutral, at 60mph or so. Yes, I have felt the very slight "lugging" vibration at 1000rpm and it is negligible compared to this. It appears to me to be a driveshaft problem, but I've not been able to convince the dealer SM. He even tried to pass it off as a normal engine vibration, which I demonstrated to him while he was driving the that it was not engine speed or load related. I'm still looking for an answer on this one. We just got back from a 1200 mile vacation trip, averaged 32.1 mpg driving mostly 75-80 mph (with a few 95mph bursts!), with three adults and probably 200# of luggage. Fantastic car! I'm beginning to think I'm going to have to fix this driveshaft problem myself if it is to be fixed at all. I did check for run-out at the front end of the shaft and found none. Before I checked the rear end, I did the elevated "at speed" test and figured that would definitely convince any observer of the nature of the problem. Since then, I have also considered the possibility that the shaft yokes were assembled out of phase with each other. Does anyone out there know whether the center connection (near the center bearing) is splined so it can off by a spline out of phase?

  7. #7
    meteck's Avatar
    meteck is offline Houston CCA Houston 7ers BMW CCA Member
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    Mine has no vibration at all at any speed. I would escalate the problem.





    Totally stock 97 740iL except for SatRad

  8. #8
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    2011 535 driveshaft vibration, update

    I put my 535 up on the lift and took a look at the 3-sided flanges on the flex-disc couplers (aka Guibos, Hardy joints). The diagram that we found in BMW parts shows a center bearing with a regular Spicer type yoke joint just in front of it and what looks like a splined connection just behind it to the rear part of the shaft. In the diagram the two flanges on the ends of the shaft are exactly matched in phase to each other, just like you would normally line up a regular U-joint. On my car, the flanges are out of phase by 30 degrees. I think this is the source of the vibration. I called the dealer SM again (3rd attempt now), told him about all this and that I would like to bring it in and have them lower the exhaust system and its heat shield, separate the spline joint and put it back together IN PHASE. He called BMW and they told him to bring it in and the BMW engineers would help figure out IF (!!!!!) there is a problem and that MAYBE they can fix it. The tech at the dealer said that those shafts are factory balanced (doesn't every one do this?) and that there should be no imbalance problem. Just because the unit was once balanced doesn't mean that somewhere in the assembly process the shaft could not get separated and put back together out of phase. I just hope they give me a nice loaner BMW and that when I get mine back it is finally fixed! 11,000 miles and just this one weird problem. BTW, on these turbo motors, are the dealers changing oil on a more frequent interval, or do they wait until the oil-change sensor lights up? On my previous 330i, at first they changed the oil annually or if indicated, then later on they would only change it if the indicator said to.

  9. #9
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    I've been chatting with Nate about this. I sent him some info.

    As for the oil changes, they will only change it according to the maintenance schedule. You are always welcome to either change your own or pay someone else to do oil changes in between the scheduled ones, but make sure they do not reset the service lights when they do so and that the correct oil is used to reduce the possibilities of denied warranties in the event of turbo or engine failure. If you plan to keep the car past the warranty period, I definitely suggest the extra oil changes.

  10. #10
    meteck's Avatar
    meteck is offline Houston CCA Houston 7ers BMW CCA Member
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    I will definitely change my own oil when I get in the neighborhood of 7500 miles. Plan to keep this car a while.





    Totally stock 97 740iL except for SatRad

  11. #11
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    2011 535 driveshaft vibration, update #2

    After pointing out to the SM that the flanges on the flex discs were out of phase by 30 degrees, he agreed to investigate my complaint along with BMW "engineers". BMW says that the rubber joints are considered to be constant velocity joints, which means they don't have to be in-phase to work properly. Also said that the shafts are assembled and then balanced as a unit, so that any reassembly in a different orientation would probably cause an imbalance. This all made sense to me, although I'm not sure that those rubber joints really ARE CV joints. I also drove a 528 that was out of phase by about half as much as mine and it had almost NO detectable vibration at any speed. So, then, this brings us back to an imbalance in the driveshaft or one of its attached parts. The BMW area rep came and drove my car and said there was NOTHING WRONG WITH IT! Game over, as far as they are concerned. Unbelievable!

  12. #12
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    Were you in the car during the test drive? You know what parameters you need to get to make the shake, take the advisor with you so you can get it to happen, I have had to do this in the past, I have even gotten one of the mechs to ride with me.

  13. #13
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    2nd update-535 driveshaft vibration

    I put my car up on the lift (again) and tried ye olde hose clamp remedy. I put a big hose clamp just behind the transmission joint, and marked the orientation with a piece of chalk. Ran the car up to 60-65 mph and the vibration was worse than before. Moved hose clamp worm gear 180 degrees around the shaft and , voila! the vibration almost totally gone. I tried to "refine" my balancing job by addding another identical clamp alongside the first one and kept moving it around the shaft to see if some combination of vectors would make further improvement, but was never (after 10 or 15 up-and-down trips on the lift) able to to do any better. So, I just removed the second clamp and will see how it works out. My wife and I are headed out this evening and I'm looking forward to a much more serene experience than I've had so far with this car! By the way the dealer did the road-force balancing on my 18" GY rft tires and they were almost perfect. The BMWNA rep said my car had NO vibration issues that he could find! What BS!!! Do they tell everyone this stuff?

  14. #14
    meteck's Avatar
    meteck is offline Houston CCA Houston 7ers BMW CCA Member
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    Not all of the dealerships.





    Totally stock 97 740iL except for SatRad

  15. #15
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    cant say thats how this would work at all dealers...

  16. #16
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    How did it drive?

    Sent from my iPad using BF.com

  17. #17
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    hose clamp remedy for OOB driveshaft

    In a previous post I related how I had been able to take most of the vibration out of the driveshaft by use of a worm-gear type hose clamp as a balancing weight. While my son was home for Christmas, we put the car back on the lift with him doing the driving and me doing the tweaking of the weights. First of all we further refined the point around the shaft where the best balance was obtained with one clamp (turned out to be within 10 degrees or so of where I had originally located the clamp. I made a chalk mark at the spot where the screw head on the clamp lined up on the shaft. Then, a second identical clamp was installed beside the first clamp, and it made the vibration worse, but not by much. So, i kept rotating both clamps away from each other, trying to keep their resultant vector centered on the chalk mark. As the spread between the two clamps approached about 90 degrees, the vibration was almost totally eliminated! It helped that my son is a graduate Mechanical Engineer and his specialty is rotating assemblies!!!

  18. #18
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    Hello,

    I find your post on this very intriguing as I am feeling something like this on my 2011 535. However, I am curious what exactly did you feel in terms of the vibration in the 60-70 mph zone? Did you feel it in the seat, headrest and passenger seat or center console? Was it a fine/buzzy vibration in both front seats that doesn't feel like a tire imbalance? Was it smoother beyond this vibration range? The reason why I ask is that my car is not smooth around 70-75 mph zone for me even after road force balance and rechecking rims for damage. I replaced all 4 tires to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and its still there but much better. The car is smooth above it and below 65 mph but its a high frequency vibration that i feel in my seat/headrest and feeling the passenger headrest around 70-75 mph and its noticeable but not that major. I tried changing gears, putting it into neutral, and rotated the tires but its slightly there in that range always.
    Last edited by baloo588; 01-05-2012 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  19. #19
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    Angry The Vibration in my 2008 535i

    I have the exact same problem -- however, the vibration I have is loudest between 20-45mph. At first I thought is was the wheels do to the fact that I purchased the car (2008 535i) with aftermarket 20" rims, I liked the wheels so I decided to get new tires on them, that really didn't help at all! I then purchased the factory oem wheels with Dunlop run flat tires that came factory on the wheels, I had them balanced and rotated. I have the same issue; it is a humming sound that is pretty annoying. I have spent $2500 on wheels and tires and the issue is still there. The vibration is thru the seats and rattles anything that I have in the center console. So for those who have posted, what can the dealership do if anything? I want to get this fixed, but right now I'm throwing money away dealing with this issue. I not that mechanically inclined to clamp the driveshaft and test it on a lift.

  20. #20
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    In older cars, I would look at the driveshaft fittings (joints), driveshaft balance, or center bearing support. It might be a good idea to go to a driveshaft repair facility and have them remove the driveshaft, check it for trueness and balance, and inspect the fittings for smooth operation.

    Larrym3711
    2001 540iA Sport

  21. #21
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    Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but my 06 e90 seems to have the same type of vibration. In my case, its a very fine vibration/hum/rumble in the 60-85 mph range. Its at its worst at about ~75. Same whether in neutral or in gear. I feel it mainly in the seat, but the floor pan etc you can feel it to.... Road force balance, swapping tires, measuring rim runout, all don't effect it. Its the same more or less on both my summer and winter wheels. I had a similar experience trying to get the dealer to look at it (they weren't interested). And since as of a few months ago I'm not under warranty, so there isn't a whole lot of leverage.

    I've been asking around to try to find a mechanic with a vibration analyzer so I can "catch it in the act", but I haven't had much luck. The domestic dealers (GM, Ford, etc) all have these, but when I asked my BMW dealer about it they weren't familiar. Where does one even go to work up a suspected drive shaft vibration? A regular mechanic? A specialty shop?

  22. #22
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    I bought a brand new 2011 528i in May of 2012. The car had been sitting at the dealership for over a year. As soon as I picked up the car and started driving I noticed that the steering wheel was vibrating pretty bad. Went back the next day and had them check it out. I was told that because the car had been sitting, the tires had flat spots. I was told to drive on them for a while and the problem will fix itself. I drove for about 500 miles, with no result. So I went back and had them replace the tires.

    After replacing the tires, the vibration got a little better, but didn't go away. I took the car there for the 3rd time and asked them to check the shocks this time because I had noticed that if I go over a pot hole or something, the car fish tails or wobbles. They checked the shocks and told me that they found nothing wrong, but they did a road force balance on the tires and told me that the problem is now taken care of. I started driving the car and the vibration is slightly better, but still there.

    I recently took the car to another dealership and they did road force balance again because they found out that it was off even though the other dealership had just done it. They also did an allignment because it was off also. The vibration has gone down to maybe 5%. However, the wobbling everytime I hit a pot hole is still there and it feels like a 20 year old Ford with bad shocks. It is driving me crazy!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by baloo588 View Post
    Hello,

    I find your post on this very intriguing as I am feeling something like this on my 2011 535. However, I am curious what exactly did you feel in terms of the vibration in the 60-70 mph zone? Did you feel it in the seat, headrest and passenger seat or center console? Was it a fine/buzzy vibration in both front seats that doesn't feel like a tire imbalance? Was it smoother beyond this vibration range? The reason why I ask is that my car is not smooth around 70-75 mph zone for me even after road force balance and rechecking rims for damage. I replaced all 4 tires to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and its still there but much better. The car is smooth above it and below 65 mph but its a high frequency vibration that i feel in my seat/headrest and feeling the passenger headrest around 70-75 mph and its noticeable but not that major. I tried changing gears, putting it into neutral, and rotated the tires but its slightly there in that range always.
    Did you ever get the problem fixed? I have the same issue with my 2011-528. it is driving me crazy!

  24. #24
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    In my case (with my e90) I verified that it was a first order driveshaft related vibration using an electronic vibration analyzer "EVA" tool. I took it to several mechanics and they couldn't ever figure it out, all suggesting wheels, tires, bushing etc. or just blowing me off. I had already ruled out all of those things, so I took it upon my self to buy an EVA on ebay and confirm my suspicions. In my case, my car had a vibration felt in the chassis between 70-75 mph regardless of gear neutral, etc. It basically wasn't there below 70 mph and above 80 mph. The EVA consistently picked it up in this speed range. The amplitude increased the closer I got to the driveshaft tunnel with the sensor, so this also confirmed it.

    I don't know if BMW provides dealers with EVA tools. My dealer, which is generally pretty decent, wasn't aware of it. Some of the other makes require dealers to have the tool (GM, Ford, etc) and actually thats how I found out about it. I have a family friend who works for Ford testing drive trains. He said its not foolproof, but its a lot better than guessing.

    In my case I couldn't ever convince anyone to fix it. It isn't generally that bad, so I have let it be for now. If my car was under warranty I'd be more aggressive at pursuing it. This type of vibration basically means that the driveshaft is out of balance. I guess its possible that the center bearing, guibo, or interface with the differential is slightly off. In my case, I think this vibration was introduced when the car was serviced under warranty for a TSB having to do with the input flange to the final drive. Perhaps they re-installed the drive shaft out of phase, or they didn't pre-load it correctly when putting it back together.

    This is a link to the propshaft related vibration part of the manual for "Vibrate Software", a program that can be used with the EVA to calculate vibration sources. It was helpful to me to learn about how the tool figures these things out. I also ended up putting my data into the software (the have a trial version) to confirm my findings. Although BMWs aren't in their database, so you'd need your gear ratios, final drive ratios, engine rpm, etc to have it calculate correctly.

    http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_...ed_Related.htm

  25. #25
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    Hi, has anyone else found a solution to their vibration issues? I have this on my 530d 2011 N57.

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