Blew my s50

[TXRFan]

I wouldnt reuse that Cometic either. Last time I did that, it lasted a grand ol ONE race weekend. That was with proper decking, cleaning, spraying copper gasket on both sides, etc.

I researched high and low, some said it would work, others said not to. So just from my experience, I wouldnt do it. Ended up having to get a stock HG shipped overnight, Sat delivery to VIR, then did a HG change in the paddock! Was nuts, but was great for garnering attention and crowds.

E36 headgasket on the paddock!?!?

I blew a Cometic MLS this summer from a small overheat on the track. Replaced with stock Elring and ARP2000 studs. I didn't even get the head machined - everything was flat. So far, so good. The overheat was caused by inadequate radiator baffling due to aftermarket underpanel.

-Mike

[savage217]

I plan on doing s54 pan and pump (need to figure out what to do with pump) and Rear main seal, if I do not do the headgasket as well. If I do the headgasket I will either use new bolts and sell the arp's which were only used this one time as Eric mentioned and a new elring gasket, since the cometics cannot be reused apparently.

If I do the headgasket I will want to do the vanos, which I already have from my s50 (I think they are interchangeable right), new valve cover, etc, etc. I will need to bring the head to the machinist so overall if I take the head off it will run be another 300-400. Still debating...

[beteljaws]

Here's my vote. Leave the top end alone and do the s54 pump/pan with the VAC pump upgrade.
Greg

[etxxz]

Why in cylinder number 4 though? Not doubting you but why that cylinder? In the past I dropped a valve in that cylinder when my retainers let go. Luckily it did not do any mechanical damage to the piston (just an imprint). Ever since then it seems like that cylinder has been where headgasket leaks have been or small amounts of pre detonation, based on what the machinist was telling me when he was inspecting and machining my head for reinstall.

Yes my oil pump is secured. I safety wired it a couple years back and to my knowledge I had normal oil PSI. I dont remember looking at the gauge on the track but on the way up it was always about 60psi under load or around 3k rpm.

Calvin, I am looking for good condition s52's. Definitely let me know. I do not want to spend a ton obviously but am looking for deals.

DUDE!!!!

i was going to say this. it happened to me earlier this year. Split a retainer in half. let go, my cylinder head looked the same.

what you're looking at here is ONE retainer split in half.


..and the rest of the valve explotion welded upside down to the piston.




any previous failures on the head related to excessive head, bad lubrication. where did your valvetrain come from?

[DBurke]

VANOS from S50 will work on your S52. No problem.

[magnetic1]

VANOS from S50 will work on your S52. No problem.

Careful. One of those lines from vanos solenoid is shorter

E36 headgasket on the paddock!?!?

-Mike

[DBurke]

Careful. One of those lines from vanos solenoid is shorter.

I hear ya, but OBD1 VANOS with OBD1 harness should be okey dokey.

[99MPower]

vanos is the same... the solenoid pigtail is different, but interchangeable, so no issues...

s50 vanos with obd1 solenoid with obd1 engine harness = no issues

[DBurke]

If you're looking to extend an OBD2 solenoid it's this guy you'll want part #12-52-2-274-971

[savage217]

Looks like a retainer was the culprit.






I had these changed when the machinist did the valve job. Is there anyway to tell based on the pictures if these are the updated valve retainers?

I also found a head washer in the oil pan


It is not one of the ARP washers that come with their kit so it must have been from a previous headgasket job.

I can't see how this was the culprit of the retainer failure. Can anyone else?

[beteljaws]

That makes me want to change the retainers on the s52 I just bought. Maybe it's something that should be done every year if the car is tracked a lot.

Greg

[99MPower]

was there enough piston damage for that head washer to get "through" to the oil pan?

otherwise I have NO CLUE how the F*** you got that sucker down in the oil pan.

THATS Talent buddy.... well done

[DBurke]

That makes me want to change the retainers on the s52 I just bought. Maybe it's something that should be done every year if the car is tracked a lot.

Greg

No need for that. All that should be out there currently is an updated retainer.

If you've got 130k and you're pressing something into full-time track duty refreshing the head is not a bad idea. It's also a heck of a lot easier out of the car.

I'm going to hope that the washer fell into the pan sometime in the past when it was off and you missed it.

[savage217]

I have been thinking about this a lot. 3 years or so ago, at an autox I was bouncing the engine off of the rev limiter and I stalled at the finish line. Turns out I had a bent valve which dinged the piston. Because of this I bought a used head with refreshed retainers off of my friend. That head ended up having a major, noticeable crack in it from what looks like a drop during shipping. This is when I decided to do a valve job to my original head. When doing so I gave both heads to the machinist so he can pick and choose which parts to use, since I needed a couple of valves and I wanted him to use the updated retainers from the cracked head.

This leads me to believe those retainers were either very old or they were never changed. I believe my friend bought the head from someone online and he was told this information. I will have to ask him about this now, if he remembers. In my opinion, the person who sold the head must have lied to him. This sucks.

[TXRFan]

I also found a head washer in the oil pan


It is not one of the ARP washers that come with their kit so it must have been from a previous headgasket job.

I can't see how this was the culprit of the retainer failure. Can anyone else?

Can a head bolt washer fit down the oil returns? I don't think so. I wonder if that thing was floating around the valve train? Still, if it was, how did it get down there? I wonder if it was accidentally dropped down the front cover when the head was off.

-Mike

[magnetic1]

Maybe by accident. Only other way for that do get down there if by way of the chains up front behind the timing cover, though I think it would be knocked up a bit more.

Edit: Also, it looks like those valve springs are S50/S52 but cant tell from my phone. If you got a M50/M52 head an slapped that on, those valve springs are different.

[savage217]

FWIW, the washer looked a bit beat up. I can take a picture of it. I still doubt this caused the issue but I don't know for sure.

I will try to find more information about the head today and will post what I find.

[ssburns]

I did this at NASA Championships this year, but didn't have the crowd of admirers. Ran fine for the rest of the weekend, but the next morning I noticed that my wedding ring was wasn't on my hand. Still not sure where it went, but if it's in the engine it hasn't hurt anything yet.

[TXRFan]

I did this at NASA Championships this year, but didn't have the crowd of admirers. Ran fine for the rest of the weekend, but the next morning I noticed that my wedding ring was wasn't on my hand. Still not sure where it went, but if it's in the engine it hasn't hurt anything yet.

So your wife isn't making you go in after it .

One of things I do when going inside motors is count the fasteners. Much like a surgical nurse counts cotton balls and instruments. Don't want to be leaving anything "extra" in there. I also take rings off.

I recall fretting over a missing valve cover bolt until I found it out in the driveway. It had dropped out of the cover and rolled away. I was worried it dropped out into the motor .

-Mike

[NeilM]

I noticed that my wedding ring was wasn't on my hand. Still not sure where it went, but if it's in the engine it hasn't hurt anything yet.

Not even your marriage?

Neil

[magnetic1]

One of things I do when going inside motors is count the fasteners. Much like a surgical nurse counts cotton balls and instruments. Don't want to be leaving anything "extra" in there. I also take rings off.

I recall fretting over a missing valve cover bolt until I found it out in the driveway. It had dropped out of the cover and rolled away. I was worried it dropped out into the motor .

-Mike

I now make it a habit of tagging and bagging everything

[m3saloon]

Savage. the washer in your pan will prob be a wash unless you've done all the work to the car from day one. I work at a dealer and i can say i've personaly dropped many a keeper down a oil passage while trying to change a spring on a hard to get to valve. so i could immagine the confusinion if the engine was ever opended up.

this retainer issue is it selected to the S50 engines? i had my head rebuilt but i think they reused the factory retainers, I would much rather replace my retainers now while i still can before i drop a vlave at redline.

[savage217]

Savage. the washer in your pan will prob be a wash unless you've done all the work to the car from day one. I work at a dealer and i can say i've personaly dropped many a keeper down a oil passage while trying to change a spring on a hard to get to valve. so i could immagine the confusinion if the engine was ever opended up.

this retainer issue is it selected to the S50 engines? i had my head rebuilt but i think they reused the factory retainers, I would much rather replace my retainers now while i still can before i drop a vlave at redline.

I believe m50 engines are apart of the problem as well. I spoke with my friend in regard to the head parts I used. He said he bought a used head that was supposedly rebuilt by vac 20k ago. I used those retainers so who knows if they really were replaced. I'll never know. I must have dropped it down the engine at some point. I don't think it was ever opened up before me besides doing mabe a valve cover gasket and oil changes. I blame myself for that. If I were you, I would replace the retainers.

[ssburns]

Not even your marriage?

Neil

If I didn't have witnesses that I was at the track all night I may have been in more trouble...

[FredK]

Looks like a retainer was the culprit.

Damn. I'm disheartened that one of the spring plates failed.

I bought the head from a guy in the PNW, who had a supercharged E36 M3 with a VAC-rebuilt head and Schricks. I have no way of confirming the rebuild either.

The traditional failure mode on the old-style retainers was to have the valve and collet pull through the spring plate, because they were soft--a ductile failure. This appears to be a brittle fracture.

There is a way to test if it is an old or new spring plate, but that would require a material hardness tester.

I'd be interested to see if you could snap the two pieces back together and see if a valve collet on a valve stem would pull through the spring plate. If it does, then there was plastic deformation prior to the plate snapping. If it doesn't, then it's possible the problem lay with the valve lifters.