Big Bore Throttle Body (BBTB) Comparison - Stock vs. Dinan vs. Riot Racing w/ Pics!!

[Rex1585]

I have a Dinan BBTB and tune that I wouldn't mind getting rid of...

[mgoods50]

it does not. The Riot Racing BBTB is a straight bolt on product, no modifications neccesary. the modifying on the M50 manifold was in referrence to some other BBTB's out there that are larger than the m50 intake inlet. For these oversized BBTB to actually be beneficial, that is when modifying the m50 manifold would be neccesary.

Isn't the S50 manifold the same as the m50? Is that 70mm then? I wouldn't mind slappin' on a 70mm BBTB, or close to it, but I don't know about hacking up the intake. I'd have to take a rasp to the thing, then work my way down to 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Any reason this would be a bad idea?

If i'm going to go the BBTB route, why not go big?

[bigmitch117]

The engine only uses so much air.. hacking your intake up wont really benefit you at all

[Captain]

Isn't the S50 manifold the same as the m50? Is that 70mm then? I wouldn't mind slappin' on a 70mm BBTB, or close to it, but I don't know about hacking up the intake. I'd have to take a rasp to the thing, then work my way down to 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Any reason this would be a bad idea?

If i'm going to go the BBTB route, why not go big?

yes s50 and m50 manifold are the same thing. a 70mm or smaller throttle body would be all you need, anything bigger would be pointless/useless as the intake manifold inlet is only 70mm and do truely benefit from anything larger than the intake manifold inlet, you would have to try and modify your intake manifold inlet size to match the size of the oversized throttle body you are trying to fit.

Also, bigger is not always better. I think VAC makes a 70mm BBTB, but we do not know much about it or its performance or a good review about it. Thats the problem with these throttle bodies, its hard to get right, its hard to get it to the point Riot Racing has achieved over the years of testing, tuning and modifying these throttle bodies.

And what would you be taking a rasp too?

The engine only uses so much air.. hacking your intake up wont really benefit you at all

I concur with this. You do not need to cut up your intake manifold to fit an oversized throttle body. You do not even need an oversized throttle body. 1000whp turbo cars are using standard size stock throttle bodies and not even they complain about the throttle body being a restriction in their flow. I know the air is being forced into the engine, but it still has never come up as a restricting factor that they need to change/swap for a larger.

[bigmansM]

Riot Racing can make custom bores for the OBD2 BBTB's but it's really not worth it the extra money (approximate $20 per .5mm).

I have seen them flow bench a 68mm Riot Racing BBTB to a 68.5mm BBTB and the 68mm flowed the same as the 68.5mm. That's why they stuck to the 68mm bore rather than going any bigger.

I have also seen then take a 70mm ebay throttle body and adapt it to work on the s5x engine and use the factory TPS. But, then the engine bay doesn't factory which would cause issues for some people (clean engine bay guys and those concerned about smog).

It's good to eliminate the restrictor of the intake path as much as possible, but there is always a point to where the benefit will end.

It's about getting the best bang for the buck without sacrificing reliability and driveability.

[Captain]

It's about getting the best bang for the buck without sacrificing reliability and driveability.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH! And i believe Riot Racing has found the magic potion of performance, reliablility and driveability.

Edit: did the 70mm show any increased flow over the 68mm? or was that not tested?

[mgoods50]

yes s50 and m50 manifold are the same thing. a 70mm or smaller throttle body would be all you need, anything bigger would be pointless/useless as the intake manifold inlet is only 70mm and do truely benefit from anything larger than the intake manifold inlet, you would have to try and modify your intake manifold inlet size to match the size of the oversized throttle body you are trying to fit.

Also, bigger is not always better. I think VAC makes a 70mm BBTB, but we do not know much about it or its performance or a good review about it. Thats the problem with these throttle bodies, its hard to get right, its hard to get it to the point Riot Racing has achieved over the years of testing, tuning and modifying these throttle bodies.

And what would you be taking a rasp too?

sort of a joke- the manifold opening

I concur with this. You do not need to cut up your intake manifold to fit an oversized throttle body. You do not even need an oversized throttle body. 1000whp turbo cars are using standard size stock throttle bodies and not even they complain about the throttle body being a restriction in their flow. I know the air is being forced into the engine, but it still has never come up as a restricting factor that they need to change/swap for a larger.

I'm going to go with the Riot version. I completely understand diminishing returns. Sound's like Riot's found the sweet spot. Is there a sponsoring vendor, or perhaps a contact for a group buy?

If someone knows, I'd offer my time in facilitation.

Group buy, Riot BBTB
1. Mgoods50

[Marv17]

Just contact them. I just got my own bbtb from Riot Racing today. I think he has another one made.

[Captain]

No harm in trying, but I don't think they can sell these for any lower. I love mine and worth every penny,

[NeilM]

Riot does good work. As far as I could tell when I bought my BBTB each one is made to order.

Neil

[MParallel]

I have the Dbilas itbs, not really worth it for the money, and they have no seals so they leak like crazy, so much that I could not get more than 2 psi from the supercharger.
- plus there are many other issues;
1. throttles sticking
2. not returning to idle properly
3. the heat from the engine affects the throttle bores and butterflies
4. stiff return springs (hard accelerator pedal)
After a year of fiddling with them and so many useless emails to Germany... I'm making custom throttles to replace the ones that come from dbilas.

Wow. Not something I exppected from a Germany company. It looks so nice on paper.

Well thanks for this very useful information.

[bigmansM]

I'm going to go with the Riot version. I completely understand diminishing returns. Sound's like Riot's found the sweet spot. Is there a sponsoring vendor, or perhaps a contact for a group buy?

If someone knows, I'd offer my time in facilitation.

Group buy, Riot BBTB
1. Mgoods50

Can't happen as Riot Racing is not a supporting vendor. Also, I don't think Riot Racing would want to participate in the group buy.

[Eric98Sedan]

Thanks so much for this, Dave.

The BBTB is a "must have" mod for these cars in my opinion. Having owned to 36Ms without and two with the Dinan unit, there is a huge difference in throttle response and low-mid grunt. I'm back in a stock car and the first engine mod I make will be a BBTB - likely the RiotRacing unit.

[Captain]

agreed. Likely the first mod i put on my DD i dont plan on modding much. and RR's unit is significantly better than Dinan's. I've had both and the RR feels worlds better! Dinans sucked. Poor drivability, threw a CEL (po121) and less of a bore.

[Eric98Sedan]

I never had a single issue with either Dinan car. Always ran perfect and fast.

But I will try the RR next

[KnudsonsM3]

i wanna spend 250$ for 5 whp! where do i sign up!?!?!

[fsmtnbiker]

I picked up 7whp with the 75mm VAC throttle body. I would expect less out of a smaller TB.

[KnudsonsM3]

I picked up 7whp with the 75mm VAC throttle body. I would expect less out of a smaller TB.

what a bargain...only 100 dollars per whp!

Sign me up! sign me up!!!

[Bimmerman535i]

what a bargain...only 100 dollars per whp!

Sign me up! sign me up!!!

For a street car, it's foolish. For a race car that's trying to get as much power as possible under a rule set, it's a proven gain.

[KnudsonsM3]

For a street car, it's foolish. For a race car that's trying to get as much power as possible under a rule set, it's a proven gain.

i doubt everyone here is a racecar driver -_-

[Bimmerman535i]

i doubt everyone here is a racecar driver -_-

Point is still valid nonetheless.

[KnudsonsM3]

Point is still valid nonetheless.

As is mine.

This isnt the track section buddy.

[Eric98Sedan]

i doubt everyone here is a racecar driver -_-

Okay - but the beauty of this mod is in how the motor feels with it... not raw power gains. The stock S52 is very sluggish at throttle tip-in, especially when compared to true high performance engines. The BBTB helps it feel a bit more high performance, even if it doesn't actually go any faster.

I want a car that's fun to drive and this is where the BBTB really shines. Dyno numbers are less important to me.

[Bimmerman535i]

As is mine.

This isnt the track section buddy.

I'm not your buddy, guy.

[KnudsonsM3]

I'm not your buddy, guy.

no need to get butt hurt, bro.

Okay - but the beauty of this mod is in how the motor feels with it... not raw power gains. The stock S52 is very sluggish at throttle tip-in, especially when compared to true high performance engines. The BBTB helps it feel a bit more high performance, even if it doesn't actually go any faster.

I want a car that's fun to drive and this is where the BBTB really shines. Dyno numbers are less important to me.

Ill probably end up buying the RR tb when I rebuild my top end.....but 700$ for 7 whp is crazy.