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Thread: Big Bore Throttle Body (BBTB) Comparison - Stock vs. Dinan vs. Riot Racing w/ Pics!!

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmaDave View Post

    Stock: The TB is fine on the E36, but after doing the M50 manifold conversion, the throttle response seemed to go to hell. There's so much less torque in the 2000-4500rpm range that even daily driving, I felt like I had to constantly push the gas to 50%-75% to climb hills and accelerate without revving out (normal daily driving).
    Nice thread Dave.

    I have the same sentiments about the M50... you should consider the Schrick manifold instead. I have one and love it. Pricier, but it's the best of all worlds; throttle response and torque were much improved.

    Quote Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post

    Or, you can get individual throttle bodies. Up to 40HP gain.

    http://www.scottsdalemotorsport.com/E36Intake.html

    Nah dude.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NakNak View Post
    I did a few years back. Dynoed my car with stock BBTB then I had a employee FROM Riot Racing install the Riot Racing BBTB while it was still on the dyno and then I re-dynoed. 0whp gain and I think 1 Tq. Not only that but later one of the 2 screws from the flap on the Riot Racing BBTB came off and got sucked into my motor destroying a piston and the head costing me quite a bit to fix. Of course I contacted Riot Racing and they assumed 0 responsibility and I had to pay for the entire thing out of pocket... If you truely are maxing out your NA engine and need a BBTB then go with the Bimmerworld 75mm. A quality part from a quality store that you know wont fall apart like some cheap pos...
    OP; I hope you've taken this seriously and will loctite those screws in place.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk325is View Post
    BBTB are stupid!

    Nah good job with the detailed post with pics and opinion.

    If you guys want a dyno comparison I would be more then happy to do the back to back with one or both. Bimmadave if you would send me one or both I will do the test on my car. Or if you want to drive to the bay I will pay for runs with your car. I want to put this BBTB thing to rest!
    Not in? I am offering for you to put your car on a dyno for free... or any one else who has them.

  4. #29
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    I just bought a dinan bbtb but..........I also got all the parts for the stage v kit. Soooo my dyno won't be considerable for this thread. But I can let you know what I gain if you want.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    The stock manifold's plenum intake port diameter is less than 70mm.

    Neil
    Yup, requires modification for full benefit.

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  6. #31
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    700 into suspension would be much more beneficial.

  7. #32
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    So what's the difference between the VAC one and say a Dinan or RR? All 3 are re-machined OEM pieces, but the VAC is a bit pricier...


  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99MPower View Post
    Riotracing is going to post "biased" dyno sheets... we need a independent 3rd party to do back to back dyno runs on the same day, same dyno, with different TBs
    This.


    I can dyno a stock car on a hot day, then slap on a different mod and dyno it on a cool day and post significant gains too. Not to say that's what happened, but all conditions need to be exactly identical to gauge any real improvement.

  9. #34
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    ^ all this talk about throttle bodies is just so great!

  10. #35
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    I will say this, in regards to the customer service remark, sometimes Rob comes across as condescending and judgmental and perhaps a tonal adjustment would help his online perception.

    However, not taking sides here, but Rob's acknowledged the failed batches and has said it's been remedied...he's offering free replacements for what seems to now be a remedied problem. Why are we beating this dead horse?

    Bad things can happen, but it seems UUC is doing alright to make good on them, unless I'm missing something...

    Now can this thread get back on track?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamnur View Post
    Now can this thread get back on track?
    Agreed.

    There has been enough of the off topic in this thread.

    If you want to start a vendor bitch thread, do so. But not on top of an existing non-related discussion and please start in the Vendor Comment sub-forum.
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  12. #37
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Not sure what you think you want from UUC, or why you're spamming this BBTB thread with your issue. UUC admits to a bad batch of mounts, they'll replace them with your choice of a newer product at no charge, and they'll guarantee the replacements for as long as you own the car and are alive to make a warranty claim. Don't want to avail yourself of that offer? Then don't.

    Short of a time machine to go back and change the past, just what is it that you expect?

    Disclaimer: I have no other connection to UUC except that my car has their short shifter/DSSR and lightweight flywheel (since 2005), but does not happen to have any UUC bushings.

    Neil
    Last edited by NeilM; 10-07-2011 at 08:18 AM.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamnur View Post
    I will say this, in regards to the customer service remark, sometimes Rob comes across as condescending and judgmental and perhaps a tonal adjustment would help his online perception.
    Rob goes out of his way to help the community and stands behind his products. It's when the bandwagon people consistently berate him about a problem that was detected and fixed a long time ago that things seem to take a turn for the worse.

    I can't say I blame him... if people kept beating a dead horse about a problem I found and fixed a LONG time ago and then slapped my hand when I offered to help them fix the problem, I'd be a little unhappy too.

    However, not taking sides here, but Rob's acknowledged the failed batches and has said it's been remedied...he's offering free replacements for what seems to now be a remedied problem. Why are we beating this dead horse?

    Bad things can happen, but it seems UUC is doing alright to make good on them, unless I'm missing something...
    Bad things do happen... but it's what the person does to make them right after the fact that counts. I bought a blender 4 years ago and it broke about two weeks ago. Do you think that company is going to send me a new blender for FREE? Not likely...

    This thread has nothing to do with bushings and from this point forward, shall stay that way.
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JETninja View Post
    One issue with changing out on the Dyno, doesn't give the ECU time to adapt. Your not going to see much if any change I would think.
    This is 100% true, especially with the BBTB since the air flowing into it is metered before it enters the new bore/TB measurements. It takes some time for the ecu and throttle position sensor to adjust accordingly. I made the swap and it took a good amount of days/cold starts and driving until the full potential of this throttle body was released. To me it seems you kind of need to "break it in," and i use that term lightly, but it seems the car finally adapts after some casual driving, as well as spirited WOT driving...but man, like the OP states, it is much much more enjoyable to drive and it pretty much reverses anything lost from the M50 manifold swap. I am 100% certain there was an increase in horsepower and torque at least in my car, guaranteed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marv17 View Post
    I just read the Ireland Engineering also makes a BBTB thats at 69mm at $205 ... i wonder what/how their quality is as well.
    That item barely ever existed or was made available to the public for very long if at all, i believe they had issues with the ones they did send out and quit attempting to make them. Riot racing has been engineering testing and tweaking their BBTB for nearly a decade if not that long. Their TB is a masterpiece. The difference is night and day.

    I too had the Dinan BBTB before the Riot Racing one, and there is a significant difference, and as he mentioned the drivability with the Dinan TB is pretty shitty even with the appropriate software.

    I will try and correct the OP on one thing, and that is that you do need software from dinan to run their BBTB without any drivability issues or CEL's, but from what you mentioned it seems the software does not help with the drivability issues...

    I will second nearly everything posted by the OP. There is a significant difference in power and throttle response. It has reversed the sadness brought to me by the m50 manifold loss of torque, i am once again super happy about day to day driving because anytime i need to go, i just push the gas and go, rarely needing to downshift for anything!

    Before purchasing the Riot Racing TB i was actually looking into Electronic Exhaust cutouts for my dual exhaust cause i wanted it a bit louder, and if that also resulted in more power, SWEET! Then i stumbled accross the thread informing me of the newly redesigned throttle plate on Riot Racings BBTB, so i gave Todd a call to place my order since i have been waiting for a final version of this product for years.

    Todd was an absolute pleasure to deal with, and was there to answer any questions or concerns via email or his personal cell phone. After initial install you will be dissapointed if you think that bing, bang, boom you will feel and experience all of its glory...WRONG! This is an adaptive mod and might even take a full week of commuting/driving for the ECU and TPS to adjust accordingly. But the day you start your car up once its adapted itself is a day of all smiles and heavy accelerating, NO JOKE! Insta smiles across the rev range, seems like more power EVERYWHERE in the rpm range.

    YOU WILL CONSUME MORE GAS. According to my OBC, my average consumption has gone up, but i am mainly going through more gas because all i want to do is push the gas pedal all the time to feel the cars responsiveness and new power, it is really a fantastic mod. It has also opened up and gave my dual exhaust a deeper, louder, and overall better tone than ever before...its easy for me to say that i have never heard a better sounding NA e36.

    I do not believe anyone will regret this mod after they do it. IT IS THE BEST INTAKE RELATED MODIFICATION installed to date on my car.
    Last edited by Captain; 10-07-2011 at 01:32 PM.

  15. #40
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    Cant wait to order mine...Except I do not have the m50 on my car. I can't wait to see how that will be. Could be good or just kinda meh...Who knows!

    329097_10151144875184101_1020786818_o by boomersooner523, on Flickr
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomersooner523 View Post
    Cant wait to order mine...Except I do not have the m50 on my car. I can't wait to see how that will be. Could be good or just kinda meh...Who knows!
    You will probably notice the throttle response and down low power more than up top at the higher revs, but that just means whenever you do want more up top and get the M50, you will feel a major increase up top! You will still thouroughly enjoy this mod with out the M50 manifold, and will feel the M50 manifold upgrade more when you do decide to do it.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmaDave View Post
    Disclaimer: This Thread is based off of my observations, experience, and logic only, so PLEASE do not comment or post if you disagree with any of them. You have the right to think whatever you want... just please don't clog my thread with forum BS. This is an account of my experience, and I have no interest in arguing with ANYONE about any different ideas, experience, or theories that you may or may not have. I also in no way intend to promote or bash BMW, DINAN, or Riot Racing. I'm simply showing their products as they are and explaining my personal experience with them.


    OK Guys-

    I was looking for something new for my e36 (since I'm addicted to modding it ) and spent some time looking for a thread about BBTB's and the differences between the options that are available. What I wanted was some reviews from people who had personal experience with them, and a rundown about their real-world performance - so I could determine if it was something I would be interested in, and further, if it was "worth it". I was particularly looking at comparisons between BBTB's, since I already have a Dinan BBTB and thought about upgrading to Riot Racing's BBTB.

    I was less than satisfied with what I found (on bimmerforums or ANY other forum for that matter)... mostly people flaming, being flamed, or arguing about theoretical nonsense and whether or not it "does anything".

    So I decided to make this thread for any serious E36 owners who want a new mod and aren't sure about the BBTB... since I own and have used all 3.


    The logic behind the Big-Bore Throttle Body:

    The E36 Throttle body is a modest 63.83mm (internal) bore from the factory, while the intake manifold has a 70mm opening that it mates up to. This means that the TB is not set up to flow as much air as it could...which inspired companies like Dinan, Riot Racing, and VAC Motorsports to develop a bored out throttle body which would allow more air to pass through the throttle body at WOT, thus reducing the resistance and increasing throttle response and peak horsepower.

    Since the engine is essentially a big air pump, as we know, increasing the flow of air and reducing resistance in the intake tract will usually increase our overall horsepower. This is why mods like the M50 manifold, Samco intake boot, ASC Throttle body delete, 3.5" HFM, and Cold Air Intakes are commonly seen on e36's in an effort to squeeze out every last bit of power from our S52's. It can be broken down simply... Larger tubing, larger intake runners, smoother curves = less resistance, more power.

    It just makes sense to me that there would be an increase in power from adding a BBTB, since the whole idea of most of the NA Mods is to lower the restriction of the 3" intake system. I've heard many people argue that the 3.5" intake setup is totally unnecessary for an NA M3. I've also heard that the TB is "not the bottleneck". However, If you believe that the 3.5" HFM, 3.5" CAI, or samco boot does anything, then you have to believe that this will too because it operates off of the exact same principle. The 3.5" Intake is 88.9mm inner diameter (3.5"), which smoothly shrinks down to 76.2mm (3") in the Bimmerworld boot, then goes through a throttle body which has a 63.83mm (2.51") inner diameter? Sounds like a bottleneck to me... Even at 68mm, the TB is still the smallest inner diameter in the intake tract!

    Note: Dinan, Jim Conforti, and Active Autowerke all must believe that the 3.5" HFM makes a difference... since they all make a tune specifically for it AND recognize the power gains it yields.

    The last thing to consider is throttle response. The idea here is that being a larger bore, at the same throttle position the BBTB will pass more air. This means that when you're at 25% throttle, the different throttle bodies will each pass different amounts of air and cause the engine to accelerate more or less. This GREATLY effects the way the throttle feels in the e36, there is no 2 ways about it. The BBTB pulls your neck harder when you hit the gas and makes the car seem to accelerate much more effortlessly at low-mid throttle. Throttle response is mostly based on feeling, though, so this cannot really be described. Drive an e36 with a BBTB and you will understand.


    So, back to the point. I started with the OEM throttle body (like the rest of you), upgraded to the Dinan BBTB (because I got it for free from a friend who totaled his e36) and I loved it. I also have Dinan stage V software, which apparently is designed to work with their BBTB (although you do not need software to run either the Dinan or Riot Racing BBTB). Last week, I upgraded to the Riot Racing BBTB, and WOW... I cannot describe my level of satisfaction. It blows the Dinan BBTB away and in my opinion, is worth every penny. But I'll get to that later. So, I have owned all 3 and used all 3 personally on my car.


    Now for the comparison:

    Here are a couple of pictures of the TB's next to each other.





    Now I'll separate them. It will be Description first, then pictures.

    Stock TB:

    Inner Diameter = 63.83mm
    Throttle Arm: Double Sided

    THINGS TO NOTICE: The OEM throttle body has an uneven bore... wider in the center than in the rest. This is restrictive and is not smooth.

    Pictures of the Stock throttle body:


    Dinan BBTB:

    Inner Diameter = 66mm
    Throttle Arm: Double Sided (OEM Style)
    Area compared to Stock: + 6.46%
    Price: $300 + $350 Core Deposit (ouch) + Tax + Shipping

    THINGS TO NOTICE:

    The Dinan throttle body appears to have been bored at a strange angle... if you look you can see that only one side of the inside of the TB appears to not have been changed at all.

    The Dinan throttle body (on the manifold side) has a very thin inner wall... much thinner than any of the outer edges of the RIOT or OEM TB's. This has to do with the angle that it was bored at. It's uneven and looks very close to the breaking point of the walls of the TB, but has held up just fine.

    Pictures of the Dinan Big-Bore Throttle Body:



    Riot Racing BBTB:

    Inner Diameter = 68mm
    Throttle Arm: Single Sided
    Area compared to Stock: +11.90% (+ X% because of low profile throttle plate and Single Sided throttle arm)
    Cost: $250 + $100 Core Deposit (About $287 when it's all said and done if you live in CA. If you don't, lucky you, it's about $267)

    THINGS TO NOTICE: This is the only throttle body with a smooth path all the way through. Notice that this TB was bored straight and that there is only 1 inner diameter that is held consistently.

    Also, notice that there is a single sided throttle arm.

    Pictures of the Riot Racing Big-Bore Throttle Body:




    What the Inside looks like: Smoothness + Single/Dual Throttle Arm design

    The OEM and DINAN throttle bodies have double-sided throttle arms, and the RIOT RACING unit has a single throttle arm. This alone frees up quite a bit of area. Also the entire inner diameter is consistent on the Riot Racing TB, unlike the OEM and DINAN TB's. See these pictures if you don't know what I mean:



    And Lastly, The Big Question: POWER

    I've been getting lots of people asking for dyno results. Well, I didn't dyno my car before/after and I've already gotten rid of my Dinan BBTB... so I apologize for anyone interested purely in power. There's NO question that the BBTB will add horsepower vs the stock one, and by the same principle, the Riot Racing one will beat out Dinan's. However, by how much I'm not sure. However, one thing I can say for sure is that the Riot Racing BBTB Feels much more refined than Dinan's and that it has absolutely no problems or downsides that I can find (plus, it's cheaper!).

    However, for those of you interested in power numbers, Here's a few dyno charts that show the stock bbtb vs riot racing back to back.

    Westcoastriots Dyno:

    This dyno chart is from westcoastriots.com which I believe to be accurate, but some people speculate that it may be biased (since they sell the throttle body). This is NOT the only example. Their dyno page can be found here: http://www.westcoastriots.com/htmlfiles/dynopage.htm



    Eurotuner's Project Car Dyno:

    This chart is from eurotuner's article which includes Riot Racing's BBTB. They did back to back dyno runs (with detailed methodology in the article) and found the BBTB to add 5.4 WHP. It's safe to assume that they had no reason to lie or fake their dyno results page.

    Here's a quote from their article which can be found Here: http://www.eurotuner.com/techarticle...g/viewall.html

    This is a quote from the article:

    "Next was the $200 big-bore throttle body from Riot Racing. With a 68mm port to perfectly match the inlet port of both the M50 and M52 intake manifolds, coupled with the thinner throttle plate, we were confident we'd see a gain.

    On the dyno, the peak power went up to 236whp at 6700rpm. RR's claim of an 11% flow improvement was good for a fairly consistent 3-5hp gain from 4000rpm onwards, peaking at 5.4 at 6900rpm. We've had no adverse affects to throttle response or engine idle either."


    This is their Dyno image. It's difficult to see though, because they dyno'd back to back after several mods.






    OK, now a real-world review...

    Stock: The TB is fine on the E36, but after doing the M50 manifold conversion, the throttle response seemed to go to hell. There's so much less torque in the 2000-4500rpm range that even daily driving, I felt like I had to constantly push the gas to 50%-75% to climb hills and accelerate without revving out (normal daily driving). Also, it doesn't make sense to have a hugely modified intake tract that bottlenecks at a 64mm opening.

    Dinan: I loved this TB when I got it... it freshens up the pedal and you really notice it. It helped reverse the feeling of the loss of torque, but also made the car somewhat difficult to drive. When you BARELY touch the gas, the car seems to want to GO, then from 10-50% throttle, doesn't seem to have a linear response. Also, The idle was unstable (if I let it idle for a couple minutes, it would bog to 400rpm then back to 800 roughly every 30 seconds). Also, it made a very annoying (and embarrassing) whistle sound every time I crossed about 5% throttle (either when pushing on the gas or letting off, and would whistle for hours if I held it there). The pedal was very touchy, even after several adjustments of the throttle cable.

    Riot Racing: The most impressive upgrade I have done in a while. I won't say anything about horsepower, although according to RR you're looking to get around 5-8whp out of it depending on the mods you have... and the Butt dyno Definitely agrees!! The car feels faster in the 4500-7000 range. I believe that logically, it HAS to add some power up top, since the smallest part of my intake system is now 12%+ larger than stock! But the biggest difference that the Riot Racing BBTB makes is the smoothness of it all. I felt like I lost a bit of the OEM feel of power when I did the m50 manifold, and the OEM refinement of the throttle control when I did the dinan BBTB, but with this one, I got back the OEM feeling of quality from the entire setup. It's easier to shift smoothly and can be driven gently and comfortably if you want to... but when I do hit the gas a little bit, it pulls me back in my seat WAY more than stock, and even noticeably more than the dinan BBTB, and inevitably adds a few horsepower. It's definitely a Win-Win!!

    Seriously guys, I'm not a rep, I stand to gain nothing from making this thread. But this Riot Racing TB upgrade has made me so happy that I felt it necessary. I think that everyone who has an m50 manifold should buy one of these things... they REALLY make it feel better, more responsive, and faster. Also, the machining quality from Riot Racing is second to none, and their customer service is fantastic. The way my car sits now (see my sig for mod list) feels like it drives as smoothly and refined as a completely stock car. Plus, the effect of the better throttle response can be seen totally stock, m50 manifold, Cams, forced induction, etc. This thing can only help... no matter what mods you have already, or plan to do in the future. Plus, no software required!! That's a huge benefit on its own... it sometimes seems like there's never a perfect off-the-shelf tune meant for your exact setup.

    Also, on a side note, Todd at westcoastriots was very helpful... he answered all my questions, and even allowed me to send in my throttle body ahead of time so I didn't have to pay the Core charge (those things always make me uncomfortable). They had it shipped incredibly fast, and from what I could see (and feel), they are obviously the best machinists who have ever tackled this job. Bravo, Riot Racing!!

    PLEASE NOTE: This Thread is based off of my observations, experience, and logic only, so PLEASE do not comment or post if you disagree with any of them. You have the right to think whatever you want... just please don't clog my thread with forum BS. This is an account of my experience, and I have no interest in arguing with ANYONE about any different ideas, experience, or theories that you may or may not have. I also in no way intend to promote or bash BMW, DINAN, or Riot Racing. I'm simply showing their products as they are and explaining my personal experience with them.

    Thanks for reading, I hope this helped somebody.

    -Dave
    Dave,
    Contact Riot Racing and send them a link to this thread. You will get store credit for your time and efforts.

    Great write up. There are a few issues in your post that are incorrect.
    Riot Racing dynos are NOT biased because they are not performed by Riot Racing. The Dyno page states this. These dynos were all performed by outside parties.

    Eurotuner is the msot public example. But all dynos on the webpage are accurate methods of measurement.

    Quote Originally Posted by NakNak View Post
    I did a few years back. Dynoed my car with stock BBTB then I had a employee FROM Riot Racing install the Riot Racing BBTB while it was still on the dyno and then I re-dynoed. 0whp gain and I think 1 Tq. Not only that but later one of the 2 screws from the flap on the Riot Racing BBTB came off and got sucked into my motor destroying a piston and the head costing me quite a bit to fix. Of course I contacted Riot Racing and they assumed 0 responsibility and I had to pay for the entire thing out of pocket... If you truely are maxing out your NA engine and need a BBTB then go with the Bimmerworld 75mm. A quality part from a quality store that you know wont fall apart like some cheap pos...
    WAH

    Quote Originally Posted by KnudsonM3 View Post
    Paying 700 dollars for 2 whp is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.
    Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
    Up to 15HP.
    http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36-big...ody-p1051.aspx


    Or, you can get individual throttle bodies. Up to 40HP gain.

    http://www.scottsdalemotorsport.com/E36Intake.html

    Any nonbiased dyno's of this? I haven't seen any.

    PFFFFHHHHHHH to the ITB's

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    The stock manifold's plenum intake port diameter is less than 70mm.

    Neil
    100% accurate. Good knowledge of your vehicle.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmansM View Post

    WAH
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmansM
    The dyno discount price is $60 OFF, being a total price of $140. I will come by personally and install the product on your car. We can even bypass your coolant lines if you would like. I can do $120, but that will only get you a Throttle body, NO sticker, no shirt, no install--> if your trying to save money

    I dont have time this min., to read the thread but ill try and stay up to date with it so that i can bring the throttle body to you, and avoid shipping.

    Keep me informed incase i dont have time to read the thread.
    thanks,
    Todd
    Good thing I kept my PM's from 2005, jog your memory at all? Thanks again for a faulty product and to a company for taking 0 responsibilities when it broke and destroyed the head of my engine.
    Last edited by NakNak; 10-11-2011 at 06:20 PM.

    1988 E30 M3-Garage Queen
    1995 E36 M3-Track Car
    2004 330i ZHP- Daily Driver
    ///M3 Cc #1
    "Gotta Pay to Play"
    $In Debt Racing$

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SD, Cali, USA
    Posts
    11,707
    My Cars
    1995 M3, 1985 745i , S13 240sx sr20det
    IMO a BBTB is not necessary on an E36. I have the Dinan one, but only cuz I got it cheap and I have all the other bolt ons to support it. Not much difference between stock, maybe a little snappier throttle response but that's it. If you're FI that's a different story. My 4cyl sr will be getting a 90mm TB.


    95 BMW M3 Alpine-
    <GO...JIC Cross Coilovers- UUC RCAB, AKG FCAB, Rogue Engineering TM bushings- AA Gen3 Exhaust- Dinan F&R Strut Bars- Dinan F&R Sway Bars- X-Brace- Mishimoto Rad- BBS RK 17x8"- TRM Chip- Dinan BBTB- DIY CAI- JP Performance Headers- 21.5 injectors- JB Racing Flywheel- Bimmerworld TB boot- 540i MAF><SHOW...OE euro clear exterior lights- Depo w/ HID- Hurricane Alcantara interior- Stereo (Kenwood,Sony,MB Quart,Rockford Fosgate,JL Audio)- Black kidneys- Euro 3 Spoke- ZHP Knob- AutoDim Mirror>

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    5,132
    My Cars
    E46iT- Coma E36- RIP E34
    Quote Originally Posted by CMG View Post
    IMO a BBTB is not necessary on an E36. I have the Dinan one, but only cuz I got it cheap and I have all the other bolt ons to support it. Not much difference between stock, maybe a little snappier throttle response but that's it. If you're FI that's a different story. My 4cyl sr will be getting a 90mm TB.
    There is a big difference between the Dinan and the Riot Racing BBTB. Yer right, you can only really feel a "snappier" throttle response, and the butt dyno shows minimal to no power gains. The riot racing on the other hand you can feel an increase in power everywhere, at least if you are maxed out on bolt ons.

    I do believe you would notice the difference back to back from Dinan to Riot Racing...i did and it was years apart.
    Last edited by Captain; 10-14-2011 at 12:04 PM.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    LAKESIDE, CA
    Posts
    829
    My Cars
    Busted up M3
    I just put my dinan bbtb on last week, throttle is a lot more snappy and noticed a little more bottom end power, doing a whole intake track upgrade along with cams and tms 4+ tune so my dyno won't be as accurate. Maybe after a while of driving with the dinan I'll upgrade to a riot bbtb and redyno.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Ca
    Posts
    3,255
    My Cars
    1993 325is
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    The stock manifold's plenum intake port diameter is less than 70mm.

    Neil
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmansM View Post

    100% accurate. Good knowledge of your vehicle.
    How much does an M50 manifold need to be opened up to accomodate the Riot Racing BBTB (68mm)?

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    5,132
    My Cars
    E46iT- Coma E36- RIP E34
    it does not. The Riot Racing BBTB is a straight bolt on product, no modifications neccesary. the modifying on the M50 manifold was in referrence to some other BBTB's out there that are larger than the m50 intake inlet. For these oversized BBTB to actually be beneficial, that is when modifying the m50 manifold would be neccesary.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Bronx, NY
    Posts
    421
    My Cars
    95 Avus M3
    Im gonna look more into the Ireland Engineering Throttle Body

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    2,616
    My Cars
    '97 BMW 332ti
    Quote Originally Posted by EurOfficial View Post
    Im gonna look more into the Ireland Engineering Throttle Body

    I already have called them. They no longer supply it. Discontinued

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