Big Bore Throttle Body (BBTB) Comparison - Stock vs. Dinan vs. Riot Racing w/ Pics!!

[CMG]

Sounds like RR is having as many issues as the Dinan BBTB.

[bigmansM]

I've just gotten a TPS fault. Had it cleared and it came right back, so it seems I have fallen victim to this also. Not sure if a new one will clear it or not, but worth a try I suppose.

What Throttle Body are you running and what software?

Sounds like RR is having as many issues as the Dinan BBTB.

Not true at all. How did you come to that conclusion? RR has former Dinan customers that send their Dinan units as cores trying to get rid of their problem.

[adamnur]

RR throttle body of course, and stock software.


Sent from the future in a tie-fighter

[bigmansM]

RR throttle body of course, and stock software.


Sent from the future in a tie-fighter

OBD1 or OBD2 unit?
What is your idle at?

This is likely caused by the throttle plate position being TOO open at idle. I am just assuming this. Are you comfortable adjusting the idle stop screw yourself? Its pretty easy to do.

You could always call Riot Racing technical support: 818 268-9567 or email: Todd@westcoastriots.com

[CMG]

Not true at all. How did you come to that conclusion? RR has former Dinan customers that send their Dinan units as cores trying to get rid of their problem.

All u have to do is read this thread.

[adamnur]

I have the OBD2 unit, and idle is at 500-600RPM.

I could adjust the stop screw, but I'm not sure that's the issue since my idle doesn't seem high at all. I will probably email them and see what can be done.

[CMG]

I have the OBD2 unit, and idle is at 500-600RPM.

I could adjust the stop screw, but I'm not sure that's the issue since my idle doesn't seem high at all. I will probably email them and see what can be done.

Do u have a tune?

[adamnur]

Not that I know of, stock tune car had no performance parts when i bought it.


Sent from the future in a tie-fighter

[99MPower]

So what's the difference between the VAC one and say a Dinan or RR? All 3 are re-machined OEM pieces, but the VAC is a bit pricier...

VAC one is fully CNC cut. Its too large to use a stock one and modify. Thus the massive price difference

I picked up 7whp with the 75mm VAC throttle body. I would expect less out of a smaller TB.

I hope I pick up the same

i doubt everyone here is a racecar driver -_-

then you would be incorrect. Fsmtnbiker has set a ton of lap records in his area, and there are plenty of people who use their car in a COMPETITIVE environment and need every little bit they can

It is. I believe he is referring to the VAC BBTB. IIRC they are $700....

yes... The BW one, IS the VAC one.

looking for intake elbow for a 75mm TB to 3.5" HFM?

Bimmerworld, no

VAC, no

Help?

needs to be something custom to fit properly

The reason for a Cel on both the Dinan and Riot Bbtb is that the body is bored through at an angle.

This makes the TPS detect an incorrect setting.

The bore should be machined in the same straight fashion as the original body to allow the TPS to work properly.

Those castings look very thin in places!

ZERO issues with my current Dinan BBTB, and no CELs

As previously stated. Dinan's BBTB design has some sort of issue with it that requires the software to avoid a CEL. Anyone that has a Dinan BBTB without a CEL is just plain luckey.

Either get the Dinan software or change your TB to stock of the RR BBTB. that's the only way to get rid of your CEL just like Gibber66

Gibber,
I would really like to know if the CEL ever comes back with the RR BBTB. It shouldn't. If it does, your car probably has some sort of other issue.
The RR BBTB uses a similar throttle plate setup to the OEM. There is a slight mistake in Dinan's throttle plate design when you have a BBTB based off an OEM unit. Todd at RR would kill me if I shared that info. though...

you really seem to know EVERYTHING about RR. Do you work at RR, or go to their shop every other day? It sounds like you might as well be Todd from RR??

Sounds like RR is having as many issues as the Dinan BBTB.

agree.. that's what I get when I read this thread from start to finish. Just as many issues with RR as Dinan. I dont care if there are Dinan cores at RR.



We'll see what happens. I currently have the Dinan BBTB with ZERO issues, and no CELs. Also have a stock TB.

Just picked up this beauty in a package deal with some new toys, so I will have to report on my 75mm experience as well

[bigmansM]

you really seem to know EVERYTHING about RR. Do you work at RR, or go to their shop every other day? It sounds like you might as well be Todd from RR??

I started the West Coast Riots car club when Todd started Riot Racing. I help him start his business and helpped him run it while I was in college. I also took over his username: BigmansM to continue to help people that support us.

Not that I have to explain myself to you

[99MPower]

Ok.. so I was right... cool that ur helping people out, just wanted an explanation.. thats all

Makes sense now

[NeilM]

Just picked up this beauty in a package deal with some new toys, so I will have to report on my 75mm experience as well

Interesting! Nice shorty headers with V-band connectors. Are those custom adapted?

(Slight digression/threadjack: I'd be interested to know the length of the primaries. Not too difficult to measure before installation, bloody impossible after.)

Is that intake manifold already enlarged at the inlet for the 75mm TB?

Neil

[Panakamana]

I have a RR BBTB and Its pretty good.

Had the same TPS code that a poster is having, bought a new one and change it and it result that it was the TPS itself... Code now won't appear anymore.

0 issues and the quality is superb.


BTW Todd is a great and knowledgeable guy, a pleasure to do business with...

[alpina527]

I have the OBD2 unit, and idle is at 500-600RPM.

I could adjust the stop screw, but I'm not sure that's the issue since my idle doesn't seem high at all. I will probably email them and see what can be done.

You shouldn't be adjusting idle with the stop screw.

[bigmansM]

You shouldn't be adjusting idle with the stop screw.

I have never heard this one before. What is the explaination behind this? Please remember that the e36 idle stop screw adjustment would have different effects of the E46 M3 throttle screw adjustment.

[E36forever]

I have never heard this one before. What is the explaination behind this? Please remember that the e36 idle stop screw adjustment would have different effects of the E46 M3 throttle screw adjustment.

Because it's a closed loop system. Between the TPS and the ICV which are controlled by the DME via software.

[alpina527]

No chance of ever having a Cel if it's done properly

[adamnur]

I can confirm that no cable or stop screw adjustment could solve the CEL or low idle. Now I'm not sure if the low idle was present with the stock unit, but I don't think it was.

Icv was cleaned not but 8 months ago.

Sent from the future in a tie-fighter

[bigmansM]

No chance of ever having a Cel if it's done properly

Is this a stock throttle body? It looks like the front and back end of the throttle body bore was opened up but the throttle plate was not changed.
Am I correct?

[alpina527]

Is this a stock throttle body? It looks like the front and back end of the throttle body bore was opened up but the throttle plate was not changed.
Am I correct?

No, it's bored in all three locations with a bigger butterfly

[hakentt]

I've just gotten a TPS fault. Had it cleared and it came right back, so it seems I have fallen victim to this also. Not sure if a new one will clear it or not, but worth a try I suppose.

I explained why the code gets set here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25137656&postcount=221

I can fix this problem, reprogramming the ECU

[Marv17]

I explained why the code gets set here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...&postcount=221

I can fix this problem, reprogramming the ECU

You can program for the bbtb as well? Do you change the voltage values of the tps?

[hakentt]

You can program for the bbtb as well? Do you change the voltage values of the tps?

No. Ecu constantly checks the MAF reading with TPS reading and if there is something off, it will trigger the TPS fault. I delete this check so the DME will not trow a TPS code for it

[Gibber66]

No. Ecu constantly checks the MAF reading with TPS reading and if there is something off, it will trigger the TPS fault. I delete this check so the DME will not trow a TPS code for it

I'll buy the argument in your earlier post (#221), what I'm really curious about is why it doesn't throw the CEL immediately. Whether I had the Dinan or the RR, the CEL wouldn't pop up until about 18+ miles of driving. Why the delay?...and does it have something to do with how aggressively I'm going to WOT? (I tried modulating my throttle activation to see if it made a difference, but always seemed to hit at ~18 miles). How easy would it be to delete the MAF-TPS check? Also, would going to the 540 or Porsche MAF make a difference in the CEL being thrown?

P.S. still back on stock throttle with no CEL...but definitely missing the "feel" of the BBTB.

[bigmansM]

I'll buy the argument in your earlier post (#221), what I'm really curious about is why it doesn't throw the CEL immediately. Whether I had the Dinan or the RR, the CEL wouldn't pop up until about 18+ miles of driving. Why the delay?...and does it have something to do with how aggressively I'm going to WOT? (I tried modulating my throttle activation to see if it made a difference, but always seemed to hit at ~18 miles). How easy would it be to delete the MAF-TPS check? Also, would going to the 540 or Porsche MAF make a difference in the CEL being thrown?

P.S. still back on stock throttle with no CEL...but definitely missing the "feel" of the BBTB.

I have noticed the delay as well when testing with units. I dont know the exact cause of this. Some people told me it has to do with the emission control hardware working witht he software. But I never found a clear answer to this.

Have you talked to Todd about your problem? There really shouldnt be a CEL.

No. Ecu constantly checks the MAF reading with TPS reading and if there is something off, it will trigger the TPS fault. I delete this check so the DME will not trow a TPS code for it

Good idea. The TPS check is redundant. The DME needs either signal and the HFM is the more precise signal. We did this to one of our race cars we built with a Standalone ECU (Motec)