Noob Drift Build :) - E36 turbo

[protomor]

Lol been seeing the rate chelsea is going through motors? Makes me sad about the motor as a platform...

[TheJuggernaut]

Sorry for the newb engine building question but can you circle the problem areas on the bearings? At first glance I don't see anything terribly wrong with them.

[jalopi]

pic 1 isn't that bad but pic 2 has a pretty decent looking gouge running through the middle

[MikeE36]

Lol been seeing the rate chelsea is going through motors? Makes me sad about the motor as a platform...

I don't want to call Chelsea out on his failures, but I think it is a rush/lack of preparation that is causing them. I know he tries really hard to make his program work with a low budget and a skeleton crew, but I honestly believe his failures are not caused by power/torque, rather a lack of head clamping force that's lifting the gaskets at the extremely high cylinder pressures he's running with the nitrous on his M52. Last 3 events he has blown the engine in the same manner at "under 700hp" according to him. I'm sorry but that is not normal. There are way too many instances of people running hundreds of horsepower and torque more than that without cracking the block at all the studs like he is. People have brought up arguments about torque transfer to the chassis and cracking the block from that too and needing a midplate for the engine, but I don't buy it. There's plenty of extremely powerful M5X drag cars with more torque and traction on the launch than Chelsea that don't crack the block at all the studs just from sheer torque. He blames the motor constantly and I certainly don't agree. You can't run a 2.8L with 800 ft-lb on nitrous with off the shelf ARP2000 10mm head studs at 85 ft-lb. I'm sorry, you'll lift the head. You just can't do that. 1000hp+ 2JZ guys run their studs at 100 ft-lb, and many upgrade to 11mm, 12mm, or 1/2" studs to prevent the heads from lifting at extremely high boost levels. Chelsea is running really high boost, with a ton of nitrous for spool at low RPM to create really really high cylinder pressures at 3500 rpm, and I firmly believe he is just not clamping the head down hard enough. If you lift the gasket and pump cylinders full of coolant, you're bound to crack ANY block subjected to that. I suggested he upgrade to 11mm L19 and he said he's done. I hope he finds reliability with his next engine platform, but I sincerely believe he still could've gotten it done with the M52 if he had a little more help and guidance on his crew. Chelsea if you're reading this, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus bro! I wish I had a spare motor to loan you instead of the LSX you're trying for next round.

Sorry for the newb engine building question but can you circle the problem areas on the bearings? At first glance I don't see anything terribly wrong with them.

The first bearing looks mostly normal, but the 2nd one has a gash down the middle from where debris went through it. Several of the mains look like that too. Most of them looked great like the 1st one.

pic 1 isn't that bad but pic 2 has a pretty decent looking gouge running through the middle

^ Yup, exactly.

Mike

[protomor]

shots fired lol.

[TheJuggernaut]

pic 1 isn't that bad but pic 2 has a pretty decent looking gouge running through the middle

Got it, thanks. On my phone it looked like the bearing had a groove in it by design, it was so uniform!

[jalopi]

You can't run a 2.8L with 800 ft-lb on nitrous with off the shelf ARP2000 10mm head studs at 85 ft-lb. I'm sorry, you'll lift the head. You just can't do that. 1000hp+ 2JZ guys run their studs at 100 ft-lb, and many upgrade to 11mm, 12mm, or 1/2" studs to prevent the heads from lifting at extremely high boost levels.

i didn't even realize that was an issue for these engines. i have a newfound appreciation for how the sbf stuff i'm in to comes stock with 7/16" or 1/2" bolts/studs

if only the OE blocks didn't crack long before that extra clamping force even mattered

[MikeE36]

shots fired lol.

Chelsea is a great dude and a good friend of mine, but he is pretty hard headed about the engine for sure. Just writing off all M52s forever because you have 3 failures in the exact same way, 3 events in a row with less than 700hp? Something is just flat out wrong. I don't know if it's not waiting for the gasket to compress and retorquing the studs after heat cycling or what step he isn't doing, but something is definitely not right.

i didn't even realize that was an issue for these engines. i have a newfound appreciation for how the sbf stuff i'm in to comes stock with 7/16" or 1/2" bolts/studs

if only the OE blocks didn't crack long before that extra clamping force even mattered

If it's not one problem, it's another! Every engine has it's quirks for sure. Not many people run a huge shot of nitrous at 3000rpm on a 2.8L for spool, so it's a bit of uncharted territory with what Chelsea is doing regarding torque/cylinder pressure. With uncharted territory comes new problems, and new solutions. (if you don't just give up and go LS... ) More torque means more cylinder pressure, which means more lift-off force. You look at basically all the cars running 750-800+wtq on an M5X and they have upgraded head studs. I think Mike Radowski and a few others are the only ones who have had luck with 10mm ARP2000s at 85 ft-lb and 700+wtq, and those people are meticulous about installs, retorquing the studs after heat cycling, etc. On my last install, my studs went from 110 ft-lb to ~95 after heat cycling. I lost 15 ft-lbs on the studs. It didn't cause any issues because 95 ft-lb on an 11mm L19 is still a lot of clamp load, but imagine losing 15 ft-lbs on a 10mm ARP2000 stud that was torqued to 85 ft-lbs. Now you're at "only" 70 ft-lb, just a bit above factory specs, and trying to run a huge shot of nitrous and a ton of torque in a pro drift car. It's totally possible it just didn't get retorqued and lifted. It's all speculation at this point because Chelsea doesn't seem interested in trying something new to get it to last.

That being said, here's a video of my head studs at 110 ft-lb a few minutes ago.



Mike

[protomor]

You should be a hand model sir. I got a slight boner watching that.

[crdnl818]

That new angle kit tho!!! 😍

[s50b30]

Should have started a block cracking thread, but here it goes:
How do the bolt holes in the block crack from lifting the head? If you meant the coolant goes to the cylinder, I woulf have thought that the rods gave up first?
Is it btw s52 or m52?

[MikeE36]

You should be a hand model sir. I got a slight boner watching that.

That new angle kit tho!!! 😍

Can't wait to try it out!

Should have started a block cracking thread, but here it goes:
How do the bolt holes in the block crack from lifting the head? If you meant the coolant goes to the cylinder, I woulf have thought that the rods gave up first?
Is it btw s52 or m52?

I'm not sure, it's not my engine. This is all speculation on another engine that has failed 3 times in the same manner, and it was an M52.

Mike

[MikeE36]

Well this thing runs again:




Mike

[Mikestokman]

I think you need a bigger track, sounds like you have to pussy foot around at that power level, would love to see/hear what this thing would do flat out on a bigger track!

[jalopi]

I think you need a bigger track, sounds like you have to pussy foot around at that power level, would love to see/hear what this thing would do flat out on a bigger track!

QFT, needs moar track

[MikeE36]

This track layout was a Meihan replica with hot lapping. It was so much fun! It is a pretty small track, and Lonestar Drift actually made it a little wider than real life to bring speeds up slightly. Next round is at TMS! We will be cookin with gas there!



Mike

[protomor]

Does your car have a handle bar for the passenger to hang on?

[MikeE36]

Does your car have a handle bar for the passenger to hang on?

Nope, that's a go pro stick thing out the window he's holding. Only way to hang on is the cage. I have a really funny video of a ride along dude trying to hold that Go Pro stick, AND film on his phone. He put his phone down in about .000000001 seconds. Haha

Mike

[protomor]

People and their damn gopro sticks. I swear, most of the places people put go pros get bad video most of the time. It's like being at a concert and seeing all of the cell phones recording. Put it down and enjoy the show. That video won't be worth watching later.

[MikeE36]

People and their damn gopro sticks. I swear, most of the places people put go pros get bad video most of the time. It's like being at a concert and seeing all of the cell phones recording. Put it down and enjoy the show. That video won't be worth watching later.

It was pointed backwards to show smoke, and it was honestly held pretty stable. We'll see how it goes. My buddy tried to save me in a pinch as I forgot my go pro, so he threw his hero3 on my helmet and gave my passenger that stick to hold. Better than nothing!

Mike

[NEDD]

Is holding the 3rd gear will be too much for that track? I can't juje by the video, but it looks doable... Or maybe I'm wrong. Nice driving and great car! Keep us updated!

[MikeE36]

Is holding the 3rd gear will be too much for that track? I can't juje by the video, but it looks doable... Or maybe I'm wrong. Nice driving and great car! Keep us updated!

I did it one lap when I was following during top 32 and it worked, but the turbo is large so it takes a huge clutch kick to keep it on boost in that tiny first corner. It's doable though, but definitely not easy!

Mike

[protomor]

Nos or a V8 can fix that

[JesterMX6]

or a smaller turbine housing.

[MikeE36]

Nos or a V8 can fix that

Yup, or just a bigger clutch kick and getting more comfortable with the car. I haven't driven it in 3 years!

I'll never go V8. Quote me years from now if you like!

Also remember this isn't your typical 3.91 diff car. I have a 3.15 on 265s. 105+ mph in 3rd gear

Mike