Tire rubbing the springs after new coilovers install

[fhsu]

Hi guys,

I am in need of some advice and/or suggestions with my issues after my coilovers install.

I have recently purchased a E36 M3 sedan. I just did the whole front suspension refresh (bought the kit from Bimmerworld) and installed a set of new KW V2 coilovers.

I was able to fit my 18" BBS RG-Rs (18x8.5 with 38mm offset) with 245/40R18 (Bridgestone Potenza Re01R) tires using 3mm spacers with the original lug bolts on the stock suspension. I thought that coilovers would give me more clearance and that I wouldn't have to use spacers anymore.

But now with the new KW V2s with the stock strut mounts, the front tires are now rubbing against the coilovers even with the 3mm spacers.

Did anyone have the similar setup?

What are my options? wider spacers? If so, what size? Will I need to roll the fender too?

Or should I get some camber plates instead of the stock strut mount? I didn't want to use camber plates since I have no plans of tracking the car.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

- Frank

[sjpgoalie]

Bigger spacers. The coilovers would only make your tires tuck in closer to the springs. The lower you go without an alignment at the that height, the more negative camber you're going to achieve. If your tires aren't rubbing the fenders, don't worry about that yet. I'd start with 10mm spacers. If it still rubs, add the 3mm spacers to make it 13mm. I wouldn't go much farther than that. Keep in mind, that adding spacers is going to push the wheel out, but you'll gain even more negative camber. So, while you may end up clearing the fender and the springs, you should definitely get an alignment and have them pay special attention to the camber and caster.

[LivesNearCostco]

Can you raise the spring perches above the tire area? Or is that not possible or not desirable (makes the car look too high)? If you use spacers, you should use longer lug bolts.

[fhsu]

sjpgoalie - Thanks for the suggestions! So I added a 10mm spacer and now it's not rubbing anymore. But the tire is sticking out a bit from the car. So it looks like the front wheels are wider than the back wheels. And if I turn all the way to either direction, the tires will rub against the fender liners.

LivesNearCostco - Thanks! I'll give that a try.

[CGS12]

sjpgoalie - Thanks for the suggestions! So I added a 10mm spacer and now it's not rubbing anymore. But the tire is sticking out a bit from the car. So it looks like the front wheels are wider than the back wheels. And if I turn all the way to either direction, the tires will rub against the fender liners.

With 245 width tires it is normal to get tire rubbing on the inner fende liner when the steering wheel is at full lock in either direction. Heck it happens to me with 235's.

Oh, and just to make sure. You did get longer lug-bolts to use with the 10mm spacers right? If you didn't I see a wheel coming of at highway speeds in your future!

[LivesNearCostco]

First I don't have coilovers (yet) and don't have an E36 M3, but here is how I believe the camber plates and tire tucking thing works.

• Camber plates or swapping strut hats should not move tire closer to strut/spring, because the entire strut angles more inward along with the wheel.
• Increasing negative camber on E36 with shims at the strut-to-knuckle location would bring top of tire closer to the strut or spring, because the strut remains at same angle but knuckle and top of the wheel angle closer to strut.
• Stock struts keep the spring perch above the tire so rarely rub on the inside unless you have very high wheel offset.
• Coilover spring perches can be low enough for the inside of the tire to rub. Many coilovers struts are also thicker than stock struts because they are threaded or have sleeves.
• You can usually raise perches high enough to clear the tire, but if you bought coilovers for looks, then the car won't look low enough.
• Adding spacers helps tire clear the spring/strut, but can make wide tires rub the fender. The answer to that is either more negative camber (camber plates or swapping strut hats) or roll the fender lips. Or narrower tires.
• Not all E36 M3s let you swap strut hats, depends on model year

Cliffs: If you want the car low on coilovers and have wide tires, you might need both spacers and more negative camber, or both spacers and fender roll.

[YAOGinanM3]

Bigger spacers. The coilovers would only make your tires tuck in closer to the springs. The lower you go without an alignment at the that height, the more negative camber you're going to achieve. If your tires aren't rubbing the fenders, don't worry about that yet. I'd start with 10mm spacers. If it still rubs, add the 3mm spacers to make it 13mm. I wouldn't go much farther than that. Keep in mind, that adding spacers is going to push the wheel out, but you'll gain even more negative camber. So, while you may end up clearing the fender and the springs, you should definitely get an alignment and have them pay special attention to the camber and caster.

Almost nothing here is right or makes any sense at all.

sjpgoalie - Thanks for the suggestions! So I added a 10mm spacer and now it's not rubbing anymore. But the tire is sticking out a bit from the car. So it looks like the front wheels are wider than the back wheels. And if I turn all the way to either direction, the tires will rub against the fender liners.

<<SNIPPED>>

Almost nothing sjpgoalie posted is right or makes any mechanical sense. Here is what you need to do:

Measure the ride height from the axle center to the top of the fender arch (I put a piece of tape so I can measure from the same spot) and write it down.

Jack the car up on that corner and support the chassis using a good quality jack stand rated at least 150% of that half your car weighs.

If you have camber plates mark where the strut camber and caster is set so you can set them back to good settings. You did get it properly aligned right? If not don't worry about camber or caster settings yet, just get it aligned once you have the new spacers and longer wheel bolts installed. But you will probably want to buy cambe rplates to improve handling balance and as a side beniefit allow the tires to fit better inside the wheel arches.

Remove the wheel and tire.

Remove the front strut.

Disassemble the front strut removing the spring and loosely reassemble the strut.

Loosely install the springless strut assembly back in the car.

Using a floor jack lift the axle up to the same height as you previously measured. This will not be perfet as there is not wheel installed but it will be close enough.

Remove any and all spacers.

Loosely install the wheel and three bolts roughly opposiste each other.

Pull the wheel out to see how much you need in spacers before the tire and spring do not make contact.

Remove wheel and tire.

Using a equal thickness stacks of washers on at least two wheel bolts re-install the wheel using three wheel bolts and the washer stacks. You will need longer wheel bolts or at least two wheel hangers to do this. Snug them up and see if you are clearing the spring seat or whatever you were rubbing on. You want to get 2mm of clearance from any strut parts.

Turn wheel left and right check for clearance of suspension, brake lines, wires and fender liner.

If you have any interference find a way to make it clear.

Order new spacers and wheel bolts to fit.

Install wheel with new spacers and longer wheel bolts.

Confirm clearances.

If all is good remove wheel and tire.

Remove strut assembly.

Reassemble spring in strut, torque to spec.

Reinstall strut, torque to spec. at previously marked position for camber and or caster.

Reinstall wheel using new spacers and longer bolts.

Lower car and install spacers and longer bolts on other front axle.

If you cannot do this yourself find a BMW car club friend or shop who can do it this way for you.

Hope this helps!

[sjpgoalie]

Ok, please tell me where I am wrong, sir. So, the more you lower the car without an alignment, the camber is going to stay the same, is that what you're saying? And that spacers do not amplify camber, either? If you're rubbing on the inside of the tire at the spring, you get spacers, which you stated. Certain coilovers make E36 rub on the inside, the remedy for that is spacers. If you would like me to rattle off each set that make this occur, I don't mind. What I told the OP to do, worked. He's running 245s, that's why he's still rubbing and that also makes it look like the front wheels stick out further. He's pushing boundaries, so you have to account for that and not solely go by a DIY that you copy and pasted. If 3mm spacers are not enough, he doesn't have many options between that and a 10mm. The front track is wider beforehand, regardless. He also DOES NOT have camber plates.

Before you try and bash someone, brush up on your reading comprehension skills, make sure you know what YOU'RE talking about, and figure out a better way to make your posts not look like a clusterf***.

I'm not even going to bother ripping your post apart. I think I've said enough.

[YAOGinanM3]

Bigger spacers. The coilovers would only make your tires tuck in closer to the springs. The lower you go without an alignment at the that height, the more negative camber you're going to achieve. If your tires aren't rubbing the fenders, don't worry about that yet. I'd start with 10mm spacers. If it still rubs, add the 3mm spacers to make it 13mm. I wouldn't go much farther than that. Keep in mind, that adding spacers is going to push the wheel out, but you'll gain even more negative camber. So, while you may end up clearing the fender and the springs, you should definitely get an alignment and have them pay special attention to the camber and caster.

Your first two statements are generalizations. All things being equal like ride height and camber the tires rubbing or not is dependent on things like what and where the rubbing happens, spring size used, where the lower spring seat is realative to the tire etc.

The lower he goes the more negative his camber will go is true. But the OP cannot adjust camber because he has no camber plates. This means the arc the tire makes inside the fender will remain constant until the ride height is reduced to the point where the lower control arm angle causes the arc the outer ball joint describes starts to move away from the upper outer fender arch at which point the car will be so low it will be scraping the ground on standard diameter tires. I note that his tires are a bit more than an inch taller than the stock tires.

Blindly buying spacers is stupid. IMO buying anything blindly is stupid but maybe you have a different opinion which you are welcome to. It's easy to find the best possible fitting spacer by using the method I posted which is not a cut and paste job I found on the internet but something I posted in a hurry. It is what I do when I am forced to use a wheel and tire that is not an optimum fit or offset.

Spacers cannot add negative camber. Spacers can be used to change the relationship between the wheel arch and the tire but the camber angle in degrees cannot be changed by simply adding spacers.

Ok, please tell me where I am wrong, sir. So, the more you lower the car without an alignment, the camber is going to stay the same, is that what you're saying? And that spacers do not amplify camber, either? If you're rubbing on the inside of the tire at the spring, you get spacers, which you stated. Certain coilovers make E36 rub on the inside, the remedy for that is spacers. If you would like me to rattle off each set that make this occur, I don't mind. What I told the OP to do, worked. He's running 245s, that's why he's still rubbing and that also makes it look like the front wheels stick out further. He's pushing boundaries, so you have to account for that and not solely go by a DIY that you copy and pasted. If 3mm spacers are not enough, he doesn't have many options between that and a 10mm. The front track is wider beforehand, regardless. He also DOES NOT have camber plates.

Before you try and bash someone, brush up on your reading comprehension skills, make sure you know what YOU'RE talking about, and figure out a better way to make your posts not look like a clusterf***.

I'm not even going to bother ripping your post apart. I think I've said enough.

Please see above comments. As far as avaialble spacer sizes is concerned there are also 4mm, 5mm and 8mm spacers available for use on the E36 that I am aware of and all are between 3mm and 10mm sized spacers. All of the spacers thicker than 3mm up to and including 10mm will require an extension to the front wheel hub to properly support the wheel on the hub and maintain wheel concentricity which avoids balance and vibration issues at speed.

Go ahead and rip away. You are correct you have already said more than enough.

Hope this helps you OP.

[M3zajce]

sjpgoalie - Thanks for the suggestions! So I added a 10mm spacer and now it's not rubbing anymore. But the tire is sticking out a bit from the car. So it looks like the front wheels are wider than the back wheels. And if I turn all the way to either direction, the tires will rub against the fender liners.

LivesNearCostco - Thanks! I'll give that a try.

I know this is a really old thread but looking for some help. I have bbs chr wheels and recently changed to kwv3. Unfortunately in order to clear the strut needed 10mm spacer. My biggest problem with the new setup is that the wheel is bulging out and no longer flush with the fender. I can’t figure out whether to change suspension or if finding new wheels is the fix?

[RBNetEngr]

I put 12.5mm spacers on my ST coilovers to clear the front springs. By front wheels are stock, with 38mm offset, so they look like they will be okay and not rub.

What is the offset for your front wheels?


-rb

[pbonsalb]

Maybe hub extenders and 5mm spacers would look better if 5mm would be enough. Maybe narrower front wheels or tires. Maybe add fender flares.