Protesting a $3000 price for an E30 feels like 1960s muscle in the 1980s.

[Stroke5]

It just doesn't make any sense to me that after searching for a car (or any other major purchase) anyone would risk losing the deal over a few bucks.

Even a mediocre negotiator should be able to see the point where trying to push any further will blow the deal, but even if that's not the case - when we're suggesting someone do as well as they can on price it's with typical limits on resources in mind. For most people, spending too much on a car to begin with leaves less or not enough to work with after they've bought & paid for the car. As we've seen again & again here alone, that can make all the difference in overall satisfaction with an e30.

I think I could've driven my seller down to $2000, maybe less - needing a transmission as it did, there was literally no chance that anybody but a mechanic would've bought my car. I could've nit-picked other issues as well, but the bottom line for me was that it was a clearly solid, well cared-for example - the best I'd seen to date. On price, we pretty much split the middle between asking & an absolute low-ball number, leaving both of us feeling that we'd done well. Personally, I just don't believe in a winner-take-all approach to much of anything - I'm more cooperative than that & believe that I benefit by being so - but like you, I can afford to be.

I'm not saying this is you, but in general it's easy for us older guys to get a little smug about our ability to support our habits. I often want to say straight up, "if you can't afford to maintain a legal, functional emissions system you can't afford the car" - things like that, & I wouldn't be wrong if I did but you & I both know that it's just not that simple for younger people who don't yet have decades of earning behind them. If haggling makes the difference for them, if driving a purchase price right down to the lowest possible number makes it possible for them to buy a good car & then take care of it, I say haggle away & haggle hard.

[red88ix]

Even a mediocre negotiator should be able to see the point where trying to push any further will blow the deal, but even if that's not the case - when we're suggesting someone do as well as they can on price it's with typical limits on resources in mind. For most people, spending too much on a car to begin with leaves less or not enough to work with after they've bought & paid for the car. As we've seen again & again here alone, that can make all the difference in overall satisfaction with an e30.

I think I could've driven my seller down to $2000, maybe less - needing a transmission as it did, there was literally no chance that anybody but a mechanic would've bought my car. I could've nit-picked other issues as well, but the bottom line for me was that it was a clearly solid, well cared-for example - the best I'd seen to date. On price, we pretty much split the middle between asking & an absolute low-ball number, leaving both of us feeling that we'd done well. Personally, I just don't believe in a winner-take-all approach to much of anything - I'm more cooperative than that & believe that I benefit by being so - but like you, I can afford to be.

I'm not saying this is you, but in general it's easy for us older guys to get a little smug about our ability to support our habits. I often want to say straight up, "if you can't afford to maintain a legal, functional emissions system you can't afford the car" - things like that, & I wouldn't be wrong if I did but you & I both know that it's just not that simple for younger people who don't yet have decades of earning behind them. If haggling makes the difference for them, if driving a purchase price right down to the lowest possible number makes it possible for them to buy a good car & then take care of it, I say haggle away & haggle hard.

I'm anything but smug about supporting my BMW habit and if I had not learned that early on the last three years would have taken care of it. And I understand that no one wants to pay too much for a used car. If haggling makes a good deal happen, then absolutely "haggle away". Still, I doubt that many ownership experiences have been ruined by paying two or three hundred bucks more than necessary. I think it is much more likely that what you said is correct and buyers, especially young or inexperienced ones are making emotional purchases of their "dream car" without really understanding the true cost of ownership. Or missing a great car over not very much money. I'm all for appropriate negotiation, and there's no doubt that many sellers have overpriced their cars to allow for that. Others have priced their cars fairly. The trick is to know the difference. All to often buyers get so caught up on the appearance to the car or the price that they will forego basic commonsense issues, like a PPI.

[Stroke5]

All to often buyers get so caught up on the appearance to the car or the price that they will forego basic commonsense issues, like a PPI.

True enough.

Sitting in a Pull-A-Part junk ATM, waiting out a bit of rain & playing with bimmerforum's iPhone app.

I'm gonna post the question & keep searching, but anybody happen to remember what the rear diff ratio should be for an '86 eS?

[OnTheFence]

Stroke/Red88,

Great comments about soft negotiating vs. trying to screw a guy into his lowest price.
It's nice to not have to be in that position.

A guy tried to sell me his E30 for $3000. The one that had a ton of work done to it.
He is up shit's creek, and HAS to sell it ASAP, and desperately emailed back & offered it to me for $1700, eventually.
I said I can't do that to him, and even offered to loan him $2000 until he got the car sold for a proper price.


What is an ETA motor?
What is a PPI?

[Stroke5]

I said I can't do that to him, and even offered to loan him $2000 until he got the car sold for a proper price.

Do you know the guy ... ? How sure are you that he's actually put $4K or whatever it was into the car?

I recently pulled off of I465 @ Rockville Rd in Indy & there was a dude working the traffic with a tiny little gasoline tote. He was late to pick up his kids, he just needed enough to fill his little half-gallon container (what I use for 2 stroke mix) - no a ride wouldn't help, he didn't dare leave his car, yada yada etc ... he was still there several & I mean several hours later.

I wonder how much he took people for in 8 or 9 hours of panhandling with that silly little fuel can. Point being, he was good. He had the rap down just right - he made a cynical old bastard like me want to help him (but alas, the cynical old bastard won the day - he's not putting my money in his pipe).

What is an ETA motor?

Seriously? Eta, as in 325e, 325eS ...[/QUOTE]

What is a PPI?

Pick one ...

AcronymDefinitionPPIProducer Price IndexPPIPixels Per InchPPIProgressive Policy InstitutePPIPayment Protection Insurance (UK)PPIProton Pump Inhibitor (heartburn medication)PPIPublic Policy Institute (AARP)PPIPulp and Paper IndustryPPiPyrophosphate (inorganic chemistry)PPIPlastics Pipe InstitutePPIProtein-Protein InteractionsPPIPotash & Phosphate InstitutePPIPrivate Participation in InfrastructurePPIParallel Port InterfacePPIPlan Position Indicator (radar)PPIProgrammable Peripheral InterfacePPIPlanetary Plasma InteractionsPPIPensions Policy InstitutePPIProduction Price Index (South Africa)PPIPartito Popolare Italiano (Italian Popular Party)PPIPublic-Private InfrastructurePPIPages Per InchPPIPollution Prevention InstitutePPIPatient Package Insert (pharmacies)PPIProtected Personal Information (privacy regulations and policies FERPA, HIPPA, GLBA)PPIPast Performance InformationPPIPrecision Parts International, LLCPPIPractical Process ImprovementPPIPrimarily Primates Inc (San Antonio, Texas)PPIPersonal Property InventoryPPIPlanning Perspectives, Inc.PPIProperty Price IndexPPIPortion Pac, Inc.PPIPlanned Position IndicatorPPIProposal Preparation InstructionsPPIPolicy Proof of Interest (insurance)PPIPreprimary ImpairedPPIPrivate Property Impound (law enforcement)PPIPyrograf Products Inc. (Cedarville, OH)PPIProgrammable Parallel InterfacePPIPrinted Postage ImpressionsPPIPeak Program IndicatorPPIPersonal Protection Index (hazard identification)PPIParts Per InchPPIPolyphthalamide (Amodel, Allegheny Plastics, Inc.)PPIPersonal Priesthood Interview (used in Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints)PPIPost Partum IntervalPPIPickle Packers International, IncPPIPreplanned Product ImprovementPPIPOM Preparation InstructionsPPIPaper and Pencil TestPPIPersonnel Process Improvement (US Army)PPIPotato Products of IdahoPPIPrimary Program InstitutionPPIPredicted Point of Impact (airdrop mission computer)PPIPeople to People InternationalPPIProcess Prove-InPPIPower Paragon, Inc.PPIPCS-to-PCS InterferencePPIPrakken Publications, IncPPIProduct Performance IssuePPIPastoralpsychologische Institut in Schleswig-Holstein und Hamburg eVPPIProcurement Package InputPPIPersonnel Point of Impact (military paradrop)PPIProcessor to Processor InterfacePPIPRIMEX Physics InternationalPPIPayroll Personnel InformationPPIPremier Property InspectionsPPIPetropars IranPPIPreservation & Packing InstructionsPPIPIPA Pulse IntegratorPPIProduction Programming InstructionPPIProvide Physical InfrastructurePPIPrimary Power Interface (NASA EHF communications)PPIPrimarly Primates Inc (San Antonio, Texas)PPIPrudential Plans, IncorporatedPPIPre-Production ImplementationPPIPolicies, Procedures and Instructions (workstream management)PPIProject Planning & InitiationPPIPrincipia Publishing IncorporatedPPIPersonal Products IndexPPIPrimary Plant InstrumentationPPIPlan Preparation InstructionPPIPrompt Payment Incentive (microbanking)

[red88ix]

Stroke/Red88,

Great comments about soft negotiating vs. trying to screw a guy into his lowest price.
It's nice to not have to be in that position.

A guy tried to sell me his E30 for $3000. The one that had a ton of work done to it.
He is up shit's creek, and HAS to sell it ASAP, and desperately emailed back & offered it to me for $1700, eventually.
I said I can't do that to him, and even offered to loan him $2000 until he got the car sold for a proper price.


What is an ETA motor?
It is the 2.7 liter version of the m20. Built for torque, fuel efficiency.

What is a PPI?

A pre-purchase inspection. Which should be mandatory for anyone but a seasoned mechanic before buyinng an old car and especially one that drives as nice as an e30 even if the wheels are about to fall off.

[ForcedFirebird]

True enough.

Sitting in a Pull-A-Part junk ATM, waiting out a bit of rain & playing with bimmerforum's iPhone app.

I'm gonna post the question & keep searching, but anybody happen to remember what the rear diff ratio should be for an '86 eS?

86 eS came with a 2.93LSD. I know because my car has one.

On a side note, I just did a Carfax on my car. I have owned it since 1/07 and am the 3rd owner. In 1999 it had 46k miles, I GLADLY handed over $3400 for it with 74k miles and mint condition - no haggle

A pre-purchase inspection. Which should be mandatory for anyone but a seasoned mechanic before buyinng an old car and especially one that drives as nice as an e30 even if the wheels are about to fall off.

ROFL! That's the funniest thing I saw on a forum today.

[OnTheFence]

UPDATE (9 months later)

E30s are now selling in the $5000+ range

Back when I was shopping E30s about 6 months ago, there were countless threads with people saying they wouldn't pay anything more than $600-$1200 for a straight E30 with no rust and a clean interior.
Market forces will paint a very different reality.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/cto/3103253232.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/cto/3102918045.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/3102028344.html

[DrJeremy28]

You would hate me. I haggled $400 when the guy was asking $1500. Car ran, had a crack free dash, clean interior, no rust, good tires, original paint but did need suspension work. People haggle E30s because they can. Not many people actually buy them on Craigslist where I'm at and I commonly see them reposted day after day. If your car has been on craigslist for more than 1 day, expect haggling!

[Rudolph320i]

i just bought a fairly clean 91 325i 5spd couple with headers, full exhaust, conforti chip, heated sport seats, LSD, crack free dash, lowered 1.75 inches that needs minimal work for 1500 bucks, guy was asking 2k and we were in Westchester NY. so far thats the most expensive car i ever bought and i havent lost money on selling a car yet.

[87iSee]

Over saturation will naturally push the price expectation down. There are 20 years worth of newer used 3 series out there! Of course, really clean e30s can always bring top dollar. If the seller can wait for a buyer.

[Cyrix2k]

The e30 prices are getting annoying. I bought a beater for $400 (haggled it down from 500 asking to 400 + towed to my house) a few years ago. It's original purpose was to be an alpha car/proof of concept for my turbo build, and after it was working I'd swap to a clean shell. Well, all the "clean" shells around me go for $$$ and they usually still have rust and other issues. I looked at a $1500 318iS that looked good from 50 feet but needed paint, was mostly rust free, but the interior was beyond beat and it had major wiring & mechanical problems. There's also been an eta for sale around me that is in far worse shape for $1200... wtf. I want the days of the clean $500 e30 back

[Jeffnhiscars]

Time to roll my e30's into my 401k

[OnTheFence]

Those days are over.

[adjmcloon]

What would you say for the nicer stroker and swapped e30's fetching 11k-14k?

[OnTheFence]

01 530i Sport: Sold * 02 540i Sport: Sold * 06 330i Sport: Sold * 08 BMW 535i/6: Sold * 99 528iT (e39 love)

You really went all the way back to E39 (and not b/c of a layoff/recession?)

[adjmcloon]

Yes I did, and I would do it again. Although hopefully I'll be able to get an F10 535 or 550i. My touring has been a labor of love, but my favorite e39 was far and away the 530i. The 330i was an unbelievably great car as well. I would definitely consider an e90 or e92 335 (09+).

The 535i was, unfortunately, plagued with injector, fuel pump and electrical issues. Otherwise, it was very nice. If anything it was too nice, and a little too numb feeling driving-wise. Of course, I was coming from my 330i which was very fun and tight.

[denyo77]

e30s in Germany are gaining in value around 15% per year. Current price for a Grade 2 condition 325i pre-facelift will be around 4300€ (Grade one being showroom fresh, grade 5 being parts car), for a Grade 2 325i convertible it's 10500€.

The M3 in Grade 2 sells around 35000€, while Evo 2s in that condition have already fetched 45000€ and over. M3s are in fact being imported from the States and Japan already, but the US are catching up quickly on prices.

[adjmcloon]

Where do you get your info? Just curious

[Jeffnhiscars]

Yes I did, and I would do it again. Although hopefully I'll be able to get an F10 535 or 550i. My touring has been a labor of love, but my favorite e39 was far and away the 530i. The 330i was an unbelievably great car as well. I would definitely consider an e90 or e92 335 (09+).

The 535i was, unfortunately, plagued with injector, fuel pump and electrical issues. Otherwise, it was very nice. If anything it was too nice, and a little too numb feeling driving-wise. Of course, I was coming from my 330i which was very fun and tight.

I also had an 01 530i spt prem & it was truly an awesome ride & its still my desktop wallpaper. I just got tired of the lack of power so went into overkill and got a 911. That was a bit small to carry 2x4s so I got an 06 550i. Way too heavy for my taste so I was glad when my lease was up.

It was a nice stretch of hot wheels..glad its out of my system :-)

[denyo77]

Where do you get your info? Just curious

Me?
There's an organisation called Classic Data which collects their price information from sales reported back to them, ads, dealer prices, insurances and automotive appraisers.

[adjmcloon]

Yes sir, thanks. I have an e30 on the way, so I am hoping the demand continues the next few years! I have always loved the e30 since I rode in my friend's Dad's 325is in 1991. What a great car! There really is something special about the way it feels.

@Jeff - Man, that P-car was nice! I hope to get into a Porsche 911 at some point. The only thing that scares me is the maintenance.

Personally I am going to stay away from newer cars for a while, and just concentrate on collecting some *great* cars, like an e30, an 01-03 M coupe, and another e39, hopefully an M5.

Why not, right? A man's got to have a hobby and enjoy life!

I also had an 01 530i spt prem & it was truly an awesome ride & its still my desktop wallpaper. I just got tired of the lack of power so went into overkill and got a 911. That was a bit small to carry 2x4s so I got an 06 550i. Way too heavy for my taste so I was glad when my lease was up.

It was a nice stretch of hot wheels..glad its out of my system :-)

[takeitez]

I have had three e30s and still find them to be built better than most cars out there... I agree with the e30 being a soon to be classic. Now is a good time to scoop up the mint ones that were garage kept... Just like the muscle cars in the eighties but with a big difference you can still drive a bmw everyday and not go broke on gas... I would love to rent a muscle car for a weekend but it would be a expensive proposition to drive one as a dd... But not a e-30 I picked mine up to leave the gas hog ml320 in the garage... I agree we are looking at the inevitable thinning of the herd... But once we start bolting antique tags on the back of our e-30s we will see the prices climb... Especially because they are still efficient enough to be usable in todays economy...

[OnTheFence]

2 years later, in late 2013, I see a 1988 325 being sold for $14k
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=307062

[Rudolph320i]

clean e30s are on the rise, especially the rare ones.